Around Baseball 2023

[Jonn]

I can't believe the f***ing Orioles are going to win 100 games this year and the best has yet to come for them.

[hanton]

I can't believe the f***ing Orioles are going to win 100 games this year and the best has yet to come for them.

 

$60M payroll. Crazy

[John_Havok]

$60M payroll. Crazy

 

Why is it crazy? When you suck for years, your first pick is top 1 or two for a few of them AND you get all the bonus picks from being a small market, you're bound to hit a bingo at some point paying nearly your entire meaningful roster league minimum.

 

Couple that with cheap owners having Chris Davis contract nightmares and you end up with your highest paid player being Kyle Gibson

[Masterbather]

I can't believe the f***ing Orioles are going to win 100 games this year and the best has yet to come for them.

 

They have been a little bit charmed to be a 100 win team this year. It's possible that they have a worse record next year even if they have a bit better talent.

 

But certainly they have flown right by us as an organization.

[DonJays]

I can't believe the f***ing Orioles are going to win 100 games this year and the best has yet to come for them.

It’s not surprising at all. Anyone that didn’t realize the O’s potential only watches the jays

[Grant77]

The Jays are better than Baltimore at hitting, pitching, and especially fielding.

 

They have relied extensively on hitting with RISP and winning 1 run games. That isn't to say they aren't good, but more of a high 80s or 90 win team as far as true talent goes.

[Nursehoneybadger]

and Felix Bautista is finished. Finished.

[Stangstag]

The Jays are better than Baltimore at hitting, pitching, and especially fielding.

 

They have relied extensively on hitting with RISP and winning 1 run games. That isn't to say they aren't good, but more of a high 80s or 90 win team as far as true talent goes.

 

Extremely over-performing. Inexplicable honestly.

 

Hard to see how they will be any better than this though without spending for FA pitching. They don’t have anything really coming after Grayson.

 

Sure they’ll have Holiday soon but they’re also due for some regression so it probably balances out.

[Spanky99]

Don't you love how we're going to face Cole and King in four of those six Yankee games?

 

Between that and the Rays, 5-7 might be optimistic for our final 12. It's going to be tough to get to 88 or 89 wins for this team. We have to get that win against the Royals tomorrow.

 

lol... Eeyore gif.

[Olerud363]

The narrative that the Orioles are a product of 5 straight losing seasons is both stupidly wrong for the present but has implications for the future that this could be one of the greatest baseball organizations of all time.

 

It is stupidly wrong because no player drafted after 2019 is even making much of a contribution. Henderson, Rutchmann and Grayson Rodriquez were from the 2019 draft (2018 for Grayson).

 

So this Orioles team could have been built with 2 losing seasons. All the other contributers are like 27 year olds like Satlander, Hays, Mullins, Mountcastle, Bradish, Kremer, drafted a while ago.

 

So this team has nothing to do with the 2019-2021 losing seasons.

 

Now you see why the people who are trying to diss the Orioles (just a product of 5 losing seasons bro!) are actually making the point that they could be on a run of many 100 win seasons.

 

The f***ing talent from the 3rd through 5th losing seasons hasn't even shown up yet.

 

That being said this year is pretty lucky. A 90 win talent team that will win 100. Next year with some development by Rodriquez and contributions by the 2020 through 2022 draft classes they could win 100 deservedly.

[Olerud363]

I think a lot of people are in denial.

 

1. The Blue Jays once had the greatest hitting prospect of all time (or close) Vladimir Guerrero Jr.

2. For reasons of Obesity and perhaps psychology, Vladimir Guerrero Jr. failed to live up to expectations.

3. The Baltimore Orioles have a prospect with better stats than Vladimir Guerrero Jr. at age 18.

4. His name is Samuel Basallo, no one is talking about him yet. He is ranked 5th in their organization.

5. That will change obviously. When Holliday graduates Basallo has a good chance be the number 1 prospect in baseball (or close).

 

I don't like the Baltimore Orioles, but denying what is happening here doesn't help anyone.

 

On top of everything else, Orioles have quietly developed a prospect better than the Jays greatest prospect ever. And it's no one notices because he's their 4th 1 overall caliber prospect (Rutchman, Henderson, Holliday, Basallo), along side a bunch of other nice prospects.

 

Is anyone paying attention to this?

[Olerud363]

Imagine Bo and Vlad showing up AFTER the Jays had won 100 games. Imagine they are both a little bit better.

 

Imagine instead of a suit in Shaprio and a yes-man in Atkins you have Mike Elias and a team of nutritionists, psychologists, and a legit high performance team to guide them a long.

 

Imagine instead of Charlie Montoya you have Brandon Hyde. An alpha, hired the same month as Charlie Montoya, but never fired, a true kind, tough human being who has taken the Orioles from a 50 win season to 100, with no need for talk of other manager, and will now help develop Jackson and Basillo into greats.

[Nursehoneybadger]

Imagine Bo and Vlad showing up AFTER the Jays had won 100 games. Imagine they are both a little bit better.

 

Imagine instead of a suit in Shaprio and a yes-man in Atkins you have Mike Elias and a team of nutritionists, psychologists, and a legit high performance team to guide them a long.

 

Imagine instead of Charlie Montoya you have Brandon Hyde. An alpha, hired the same month as Charlie Montoya, but never fired, a true kind, tough human being who has taken the Orioles from a 50 win season to 100, with no need for talk of other manager, and will now help develop Jackson and Basillo into greats.

 

 

Wil bet any amount of money that the orioles don't win a World Series in 4 years at 1-1 odds.

[Spanky99]

It’s not surprising at all. Anyone that didn’t realize the O’s potential only watches the jays

 

Pretty much, lol, although I didn't expect it this quickly.

[Spanky99]

The narrative that the Orioles are a product of 5 straight losing seasons is both stupidly wrong for the present but has implications for the future that this could be one of the greatest baseball organizations of all time.

 

It is stupidly wrong because no player drafted after 2019 is even making much of a contribution. Henderson, Rutchmann and Grayson Rodriquez were from the 2019 draft (2018 for Grayson).

 

So this Orioles team could have been built with 2 losing seasons. All the other contributers are like 27 year olds like Satlander, Hays, Mullins, Mountcastle, Bradish, Kremer, drafted a while ago.

 

So this team has nothing to do with the 2019-2021 losing seasons.

 

Now you see why the people who are trying to diss the Orioles (just a product of 5 losing seasons bro!) are actually making the point that they could be on a run of many 100 win seasons.

 

The f***ing talent from the 3rd through 5th losing seasons hasn't even shown up yet.

 

That being said this year is pretty lucky. A 90 win talent team that will win 100. Next year with some development by Rodriquez and contributions by the 2020 through 2022 draft classes they could win 100 deservedly.

 

I think a lot of people are in denial.

 

1. The Blue Jays once had the greatest hitting prospect of all time (or close) Vladimir Guerrero Jr.

2. For reasons of Obesity and perhaps psychology, Vladimir Guerrero Jr. failed to live up to expectations.

3. The Baltimore Orioles have a prospect with better stats than Vladimir Guerrero Jr. at age 18.

4. His name is Samuel Basallo, no one is talking about him yet. He is ranked 5th in their organization.

5. That will change obviously. When Holliday graduates Basallo has a good chance be the number 1 prospect in baseball (or close).

 

I don't like the Baltimore Orioles, but denying what is happening here doesn't help anyone.

 

On top of everything else, Orioles have quietly developed a prospect better than the Jays greatest prospect ever. And it's no one notices because he's their 4th 1 overall caliber prospect (Rutchman, Henderson, Holliday, Basallo), along side a bunch of other nice prospects.

 

Is anyone paying attention to this?

 

Imagine Bo and Vlad showing up AFTER the Jays had won 100 games. Imagine they are both a little bit better.

 

Imagine instead of a suit in Shaprio and a yes-man in Atkins you have Mike Elias and a team of nutritionists, psychologists, and a legit high performance team to guide them a long.

 

Imagine instead of Charlie Montoya you have Brandon Hyde. An alpha, hired the same month as Charlie Montoya, but never fired, a true kind, tough human being who has taken the Orioles from a 50 win season to 100, with no need for talk of other manager, and will now help develop Jackson and Basillo into greats.

 

[Olerud363]

Wil bet any amount of money that the orioles don't win a World Series in 4 years at 1-1 odds.

 

I've never made a prediction that the Orioles will win the World Series. Even great teams might go decades without winning the world series. Rays have never won, Dodgers have never won, except the Covid season, since 1988.

 

However a fair starting point is post 2016 and it will be interesting to compare the Jays and Orioles from 2016 to 2030. That's a long time sure, but the Orioles are attempting to build the mythical sustainable winner (as the Jays claimed they were).

 

Orioles did a deeper down cycle, and whether by luck or intention the two last years of their down cycle were done during Covid years.

 

Here are some metrics to look between the Orioles and Jays from 2017-2030

 

1. Number of losing seasons (so far Jays 3, Orioles 5)

2. Number of losing seasons pro-rated to games played (Jays 3, Orioles 4.4)

3. Number of losing seasons pro-rated to attendance restrictions(Jays 3, Orioles about 3.3)

4. Number of 90 win seasons Jays 2, Orioles 0 (could change today).

5. Number of division titles (Jays 0, Orioles 0 (could change end of month)).

6. Number of playoff wins (Jays 0, Orioles 0) (could change October).

7. Number of days in 1st place after June 1st (Orioles 30 or so... Jays 0)

8. Number of consecutive winning seasons (Jays 3 (should change soon), Orioles 2)

 

How is all this shaping to look in 2030?

 

Would you trade 1.3 losing seasons with Attendance restrictions, in return for being set up how the Orioles are now?

 

The stupid narrative of '5 losing seasons bro' ignores that it was 4.35 losing seasons, and only 3 normal losing seasons (which the Jays also had losing seasons those years).

[Grant77]

I think a lot of people are in denial.

 

1. The Blue Jays once had the greatest hitting prospect of all time (or close) Vladimir Guerrero Jr.

2. For reasons of Obesity and perhaps psychology, Vladimir Guerrero Jr. failed to live up to expectations.

3. The Baltimore Orioles have a prospect with better stats than Vladimir Guerrero Jr. at age 18.

4. His name is Samuel Basallo, no one is talking about him yet. He is ranked 5th in their organization.

5. That will change obviously. When Holliday graduates Basallo has a good chance be the number 1 prospect in baseball (or close).

 

I don't like the Baltimore Orioles, but denying what is happening here doesn't help anyone.

 

On top of everything else, Orioles have quietly developed a prospect better than the Jays greatest prospect ever. And it's no one notices because he's their 4th 1 overall caliber prospect (Rutchman, Henderson, Holliday, Basallo), along side a bunch of other nice prospects.

 

Is anyone paying attention to this?

 

If Basallo makes it to AAA next year, while hitting .380 with power and more walks than strikeouts, then we can start comparing him to Vlad Jr.

 

Until then, the comparison is a little premature.

[Eat My Shatkins]

Olerud's constant fellating of the Orioles is becoming gruesome.

[jaysblue]

 

Here are some metrics to look between the Orioles and Jays from 2017-2030

 

1. Number of losing seasons (so far Jays 3, Orioles 5)

2. Number of losing seasons pro-rated to games played (Jays 3, Orioles 4.4)

3. Number of losing seasons pro-rated to attendance restrictions(Jays 3, Orioles about 3.3)

4. Number of 90 win seasons Jays 2, Orioles 0 (could change today).

5. Number of division titles (Jays 0, Orioles 0 (could change end of month)).

6. Number of playoff wins (Jays 0, Orioles 0) (could change October).

7. Number of days in 1st place after June 1st (Orioles 30 or so... Jays 0)

8. Number of consecutive winning seasons (Jays 3 (should change soon), Orioles 2)

 

How is all this shaping to look in 2030?

 

Would you trade 1.3 losing seasons with Attendance restrictions, in return for being set up how the Orioles are now?

 

The stupid narrative of '5 losing seasons bro' ignores that it was 4.35 losing seasons, and only 3 normal losing seasons (which the Jays also had losing seasons those years).

 

Yeah when people use the excuse that "the Orioles are only good is because they had 5 losing seasons" really need to give their head a shake. What have the Jays done since 2017, during the same period? Yes the Orioles were able to draft high and stockpile their farm system for those years from losing season, but more should be attributed to their scouting & player development over the years.

 

The Rays operated on a low payroll and were a losing team for many seasons before 2008, though there were some posters on this board who praised and were obsessed with their organization.

 

The big question mark for the Orioles will be what they do with this talent over the next several years and how do they complement it? If they just stand pat and not add to the roster like adding quality start pitching, then yes they're wasting these prime years by cheaping out. As well, their window isn't going to be 10 years. We've seen time and time again how things in baseball could change quickly. Right now their prime window is for the next 3-4 years with their young core.

 

Jays had losing seasons in 2017, 2018 and 2019. They were 32-28 in a shortened 2020 season. Winning seasons in 2021, 2022, and 2023.

 

Orioles had losing seasons in 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, and 2021. Winning seasons in 2022 with an 83-79 record and in 2023 with 90 wins thus far.

 

Jays were competitive for only 1.5 more seasons than the Orioles since 2017.

 

Overall, like you pointed out both the Jays and Orioles have won 0 postseason games from 2017. The Jays, while they've been solid over the last couple of seasons, haven't won in the Postseason yet and their window is closing quicker than the Orioles. Results have been mediocre thus far given the expectations this team has had.

[Spanky99]

Tips...

[BigCecil]

Overall, like you pointed out both the Jays and Orioles have won 0 postseason games from 2017. The Jays, while they've been solid over the last couple of seasons, haven't won in the Postseason yet and their window is closing quicker than the Orioles. Results have been mediocre thus far given the expectations this team has had.

 

17-19 was pretty lean for the Jays. Steve Pearce come from behind grand slams etc we clung to. Crowds were mid.

 

I think the net net difference for the Jays vs O's is the excitement around Bo/Vlad coming up and we were "competitive" in 20 and 21, 2 years earlier only than the O's.

 

As a fan in the dark years from 1994 to 2014 I'm a believer this fan base would put up with any well developed and communicated FO plan that made us a perennial upper echelon team. No matter what the course to get there. Before anyone jumps down my throat saying we are already, the next 2/3 years are getting a bit hazy for this window facing some major decisions, and the back end of some FA deals.

[Olerud363]

Olerud's constant fellating of the Orioles is becoming gruesome.

 

You are a f***ing idiot.

 

1. Samuel Basallo is an actual baseball prospect.

2. He was 18 years old for most of this season, just turned 19.

3. He is now 'arguably' better than Guerrero at the same age showing more power.

 

The fact of the matter is the Orioles just out of no where came up with a prospect as good as Vladimir Guerrero Jr. was as a prospect.

 

I don't like this. I'm not cheering it. I'm just reporitng it. If you don't like it don't f***ing complain to me. Write a letter to Blue Jays management and ask them to improve and learn from what the Orioles are doing.

 

Charlie Montoya and Brandon Hyde are real people. Real things have happened to them. They've lived lives and held and lost jobs.

 

The Mike Elias regime has hired one Manager. His name is Brandon Hyde. He has held the job throughout their entire rebuild and now build cycle.

 

The Blue Jays had John Gibbons, then Charlie Montoya, now John Scneider, who may be replaced again if they don't make the playoffs.

 

These are real things that happened. Orioles have stability in the manager position and seem to have done a competent job search in late 2018... The Jays are a mess here.

 

DON'T COMPLAIN TO ME IF YOU DON'T like it. Write Rogers and complain.

[Ehjays]

[Jimcanuck]

 

Perfect fit for the Jays

[Stangstag]

Perfect fit for the Jays

 

Perfect fit for any team lol

[Stangstag]

That being said, I dont think Trout would ever agree to a trade to Toronto.

 

He’d probably want Philly or stay in LA

[hanton]

Why is it crazy? When you suck for years, your first pick is top 1 or two for a few of them AND you get all the bonus picks from being a small market, you're bound to hit a bingo at some point paying nearly your entire meaningful roster league minimum.

 

Couple that with cheap owners having Chris Davis contract nightmares and you end up with your highest paid player being Kyle Gibson

 

 

How many have they hit on?

 

since 2017

 

adley at 1.1, anyone could have made that pick blind, Gunnar Henderson though was a 2nd roudner in that same draft, Grayson Rodriguez 1.11 in 2018

 

The only CB pick to make an MLB appearance is Jordan Westburg and he hasn't dont much.

 

That's basically it for the recent drafts, going back a little furhter 2015/2016 (mullins, hays and mountcastle)

 

Most of the other players were aquired via trades or claimed off waivers, Bautista/Hicks/Gibson/Frazier FA

[Zacman]

Seattle down 2-0 in the first! Let's go rays

[Orgfiller]

Perfect fit for the Jays

 

Perfect fit for any team lol

 

Not really honestly. I love Trout obviously but he’s now 32 on a huge contract until he’s 39 and it’s pretty clear his durability is a big concern especially at this point in his career. The Angels would have to eat half his salary to even get the conversation started for most teams to begin offering any half decent prospect.

[Nursehoneybadger]

mariners are cooked. all because Kirby couldn't throw 102 good pitches.