Blue Jays acquire Daulton Varsho for Moreno and Gurriel

[Dick_Pole]

Bassit > Stripling, Varsho > Gurriel by a longshot, Moreno barely played last year so .... cant really say they are better or worse since they still have 2 all star caliber catchers. One could easily argue that Varsho is > than Teo depending on how you value power vs defense.

 

Swanson > whatever shitstain they were going to have at the front and middle of the pen.

 

I don't think it's a stretch to say the Jays are better than 2022 at all. Run prevention counts the same as runs scored, and the power loss isn't substantial. The defensive improvements are massive.

 

I'm going to be a douche and say that the team that scores 162 runs in a year and gives up none goes 162-0. Conversely, a team that scores 1,000 runs in a year and gives up 838 runs does not go 162-0 in a year. Run prevention is actually MORE important than run scoring. Because lower numbers lead to less variability and greater chance of winning close games. Rather than wasting a bunch of runs on 28-5 games.

[The_DH]

I would have liked to receive at least a lottery ticket in the trade, but otherwise don't hate it too much.

[connorp]

Bassit > Stripling, Varsho > Gurriel by a longshot, Moreno barely played last year so .... cant really say they are better or worse since they still have 2 all star caliber catchers. One could easily argue that Varsho is > than Teo depending on how you value power vs defense.

 

Swanson > whatever shitstain they were going to have at the front and middle of the pen.

 

I don't think it's a stretch to say the Jays are better than 2022 at all. Run prevention counts the same as runs scored, and the power loss isn't substantial. The defensive improvements are massive.

 

Varsho > LG

Bassit > Strip

Teo > Swanson

Sign KK, lose top prospect

 

Probably a little better 2023 than 2022 but hardly a big step forward.

Don’t forget it was a clear cut WC team from the jump

[Jayzfan79]

Being overlooked is we have a 3rd catcher and starting outfielder holding 1 roster spot without creating a black hole in the lineup or at defense. More room on the 40man for an additional OF or INF on the bench or Pitcher waiting in the wings.

[John_Havok]

Varsho is definitely better than Teo. But this isn’t about Teo. Varsho needs to cut the strikeout rate and figure out how to get on base though.

 

His K rate isn't horrible, its really just the avg/OBP that needs to improve. With his heavy pull approach, it's not outlandish to think he'll pick up a few more hits this season with the shift restrictions. Yes, his K rate could still improve, but that's not what is holding him back from being successful.

[BTS]

You know how there's always a few GMs in the league that you prey on due to the high probability of you coming way out on top in a trade?

 

This doesn’t even make sense. Atkins has crushed it with trades. Most mistakes have been bad FA signings.

[gruber92]

Being overlooked is we have a 3rd catcher and starting outfielder holding 1 roster spot without creating a black hole in the lineup or at defense. More room on the 40man for an additional OF or INF on the bench or Pitcher waiting in the wings.

 

This was the main objective or at least made Ross convince himself he's winning this one. We still paid too much.

[Jays24]

Yes, because f*** depth when players get injured and you're trying to make the playoffs. Let's just throw a replacement level shitbag and hope for the best!

 

I'm not looking for "depth" when I'm trading the best prospect in baseball who looks like he'll be a perennial .300+ batter with elite defense at a premium position.

 

Like I said, you only trade a guy like Moreno for a superstar and nothing less. Then we added Gurriel to the trade for the fun of it. This is a total panic move from a guy who's trying to keep his job this upcoming season.

[LGBJ29]

Varsho > LG

Bassit > Strip

Teo > Swanson

Sign KK, lose top prospect

 

Probably a little better 2023 than 2022 but hardly a big step forward.

Don’t forget it was a clear cut WC team from the jump

 

If you rearrange your players it looks much better

 

KK>LGJ

Varsho>Teo

Bassit>Strip

Swanson ++ bullpen addition

[Daniel Labude]

Love this trade. LHH with power and speed that plays great defense in CF and can be a C.

 

Gurriel is super overrated and approaching 30. Is the biggest hot/cold hitters and changed his swing and approach to be a singles/double hitter this past season. Losing Moreno sucks, rather have traded Jansen, but to add a hitter and fielder like Varsho it costs.

 

In Varsho we get a Bo in the OF/C, but with better defense, better power, better speed, less average

[John_Havok]

I do not like this trade at all. We got an all defense guy who is Grichuk with the bat.

 

Moreno could have a 6 fWAR within the next 3 years and I wouldn't be surprised at all.

 

Could. Vs Already had a near 5 WAR season. Yes, it hurts to trade prospects but until they succeed thats all they ever are. Varsho has already shown he can be what people think Moreno can be.

[Pendleton]

There's an initial shock to giving up a prospect of Moreno's ilk, but it's hard to not love the addition to the club. Varsho adds so much, including the ability to still have three very capable catchers on the roster who can all hit.

 

Gurriel's inclusion, while it brings me no joy to say it, can be seen as addition by subtraction in that we can now use his spot and money on a right handed bat that provides more value.

[Terminator]

In the long run the Jays could lose the WAR total of 6 years of moreno vs 4 of Varsho but Varsho is probably a 2 WAR upgrade over Gurriel this year alone and Moreno is just luxury depth.

 

When you get to a projected 92 wins or so, eeking out even more becomes harder to do but that much sweeter when it happens. This is a good trade!

[TheHurl]

I love that it's a panic trade that they have been working on since last July.

 

As for OF defense Varsho was the second best defensive RF in baseball last year. I have no idea if it would difficult to convince Springer to play LF, but he seems like a team guy. Chances are they will play around with a lot of really good combinations though

[L54]

Gurriel sucks and is a FA next year. If he had value they would’ve moved him for Swanson but even at 5M Seattle didn’t prefer him.

 

Moreno’s lack of power is concerning. Young catchers can take a long time to finally figure it out and by then they’re on the edge of free agency. See JT Realmuto

 

Varsho fills the biggest hole on a roster in win now mode for cheap. Way better than trading ++ for Reynolds.

 

This is a nice move for AZ too. They get a young catcher to add to their core of exciting young players. Both teams traded from areas of depth. Logical fit all along.

 

Terminator was wrong

[justafan]

that's good because he's worth very little IMO

 

Lourdes is a clown and I'm happy to see him go!

[gruber92]

I'm not looking for "depth" when I'm trading the best prospect in baseball who looks like he'll be a perennial .300+ batter with elite defense.

 

Like I said, you only trade a guy like Moreno for a superstar and nothing less. Then we added Gurriel to the trade for the fun of it. This is a total panic move from a guy who's trying to keep his job this upcoming season.

 

No kidding.. When I first read the partial headline and saw Moreno's name involved with Arizona, I thought we landed Carrol.

[John_Havok]

This was the main objective or at least made Ross convince himself he's winning this one. We still paid too much.

 

Are you suggesting that Moreno + Gurriel is MORE valuable than Kirk + Gurriel? Wasn't it you who said you'd rather it be Kirk in the trade?

[glory]

Turning the catching surplus into a long term LHH outfielder was the most logical way to go this winter. Didn't think Atkins would actually trade Moreno.

 

The only skepticism I have about Varsho is his iffy statcast offensive numbers, but even if he's a 105-110 wRC+ bat, with his defense and baserunning that's a very good player. A legit CF is slowly becoming one of the hardest positions to fill in baseball. The Jays have one for 4 years now.

 

Wouldn't shock me at all if Moreno becomes a very good catcher, though. Bat to ball skills + athleticism. If he develops any sort of power then watch out. Either way it was a risk the Jays could afford to take. Wins added in 2023-25 are very important with the current roster construction, and if Moreno takes a few years to develop, then it would have hindered that window.

[Jays24]

If you rearrange your players it looks much better

 

KK>LGJ

Varsho>Teo

Bassit>Strip

Swanson ++ bullpen addition

 

is KK really better than Gurriel at this stage of his career?

 

Most of Varsho's WAR came from CF defense, which won't happen as much here.

 

Don't forget that to get all those players, we had to give up Moreno and a comp pick from the Bassit signing too. Those assets could have been used to improve elsewhere.

 

As a Jays fan, I'll still be excited to see how we performing this upcoming season but I'm definitely saddened at losing Teo for next year and Moreno in the long term.

[Jimcanuck]

Springer

Bo

Vlad

Kirk

Chapman

Varsho

Jansen

Biggio / Merrifield

Kiermaier

 

Espinal, ?, ?

[Stangstag]

I wasn't a big fan of this trade until I skimmed through the comments of this thread. After analyzing the BJMB board members who hate this trade the most, I am now okay with it.

 

Loll

[BigCecil]

This trade is ok. I can see why we did it for sure, and why AZ fans would like it too.

 

Just funny to me - a couple years ago this Board was all about Moreno the untouchable. Endless discussion. Kind of like Pearson was, and now Tiedemann. We give Gabby 73 PAs in the bigs and decide he has little offensive upside and is a dispensable noodle bat. Then we come up with all kinds of reasons why Varsho has upside offensively - we value his D but tend to overlook what D upside Moreno might have. We value Varsho control but Moreno has more we gave up, at the same time arguing the FO is not a window team and is building a long term sustainable winner. Would have preferred moving Kirk but for next year FO probably doesn't want to lose his O too with Teo dealt for RP because of the window. Hope Kirk loses 20 or more. Rossplaining is thick in here.

 

I liked LGJ, but he is a 1-2.5 WAR player who isn't very expensive right now. Good for AZ. Enjoy those routes in the OF! I'm fine seeing him and his D move on, even though I do think he can rebound from his power drop last year. I'm also happy to see the whole pineapple thing and clubhouse clique rearranged.

Edited December 25, 2022 by BigCecil

[TheHurl]

lets not underestimate the value of $5M and a roster spot too

[Jimcanuck]

is KK really better than Gurriel at this stage of his career?

 

Most of Varsho's WAR came from CF defense, which won't happen as much here.

 

Don't forget that to get all those players, we had to give up Moreno and a comp pick from the Bassit signing too. Those assets could have been used to improve elsewhere.

 

As a Jays fan, I'll still be excited to see how we performing this upcoming season but I'm definitely saddened at losing Teo for next year and Moreno in the long term.

 

Remember Teo is a FA after 2023 and I'm sure the FO did their homework and determined they would not be able to resign him

 

Moreno is a loss, yes, but let's see. Catching is tough and catchers have a way of breaking down and the bat not being as good as advertised.

[King]

No kidding.. When I first read the partial headline and saw Moreno's name involved with Arizona, I thought we landed Carrol.

 

Are you high? LMAO

[gruber92]

Are you suggesting that Moreno + Gurriel is MORE valuable than Kirk + Gurriel? Wasn't it you who said you'd rather it be Kirk in the trade?

 

Yeah it was me. I think I'd rather go with the athletic, versatile, non base clogging option in Moreno. I'm just worried about Kirk's body holding up.

[justafan]

How does the batting order look now?

[gruber92]

Are you high? LMAO

 

Not one for one, that's why I specified when I read the "partial" headline. WTF, you young libs love twisting facts to fit your narratives.

[Jimcanuck]

How does the batting order look now?

 

Fantastic, more speed and more balance

 

Two bench spots to be handed out, curious who gets these