General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2022)

[jaysblue]

Yall just forgetting TJ Zeuch made a start in the first series?? And we had a 4 man rotation of Ryu, Ray, Matz and Stripling/Pearson for the first several weeks with spot starts sprinkled in.

 

This year we had a legit 5 man rotation on opening day with Gausman/Berrios/Manoah/Ryu/Kikuchi.

 

s*** happens though. Somehow the rotation this year performed worse.

 

Yeah difference was Ryu was healthy most of 2021, Matz gave them 29 starts and was decent, alongside they acquired Berrios at the deadline and he pitched well down the stretch. Manoah also made 20 starts.

 

In 2022, only 6 starts from Ryu, Berrios has been inconsistent, Kikuchi hasn't even come close to what Matz did last season. Stripling has been solid, but him alone can't make up for all the other downfalls in the rotation.

[glory]

Yall just forgetting TJ Zeuch made a start in the first series?? And we had a 4 man rotation of Ryu, Ray, Matz and Stripling/Pearson for the first several weeks with spot starts sprinkled in.

 

This year we had a legit 5 man rotation on opening day with Gausman/Berrios/Manoah/Ryu/Kikuchi.

 

s*** happens though. Somehow the rotation this year performed worse.

 

I was talking about the 2021 rotation that got most of the starts (Ray, Manoah, Matz, Ryu, Berrios, Stripling). Of those listed, only Stripling wasn’t a 2 WAR or better SP (Berrios was 1.7 in 12 starts). This season the Jays have 3 dependable SPs. Berrios has been bad, Ryu got hurt, and Kikuchi has been worse than bad. The depth was better last season, especially down the stretch.

 

On paper, the 2022 rotation should have been better. Hasn’t worked out that way.

[jaysblue]

I was talking about the 2021 rotation that got most of the starts (Ray, Manoah, Matz, Ryu, Berrios, Stripling). Of those listed, only Stripling wasn’t a 2 WAR or better SP (Berrios was 1.7 in 12 starts). This season the Jays have 3 dependable SPs. Berrios has been bad, Ryu got hurt, and Kikuchi has been worse than bad. The depth was better last season, especially down the stretch.

 

On paper, the 2022 rotation should have been better. Hasn’t worked out that way.

 

Ray/Manoah in 2021 and Gausman/Manoah in 2022 has been a wash. Matz 2021 > Kikuchi 2022, 2021 Berrios > 2022 Berrios, and Ryu 2021 > no Ryu in 2022. Stripling alone hasn't been enough to cover the struggles of those guys.

 

I would say depth was the same in 2021 and 2022, only difference is that the Jays actually got solid performances from Berrios, Ryu and Matz in 2021, whereas in 2022 that hasn't been the case even for the replacements they brought in, other than Stripling.

[Orgfiller]

Ray/Manoah in 2021 and Gausman/Manoah in 2022 has been a wash. Matz 2021 > Kikuchi 2022, 2021 Berrios > 2022 Berrios, and Ryu 2021 > no Ryu in 2022. Stripling alone hasn't been enough to cover the struggles of those guys.

 

I would say depth was the same in 2021 and 2022, only difference is that the Jays actually got solid performances from Berrios, Ryu and Matz in 2021, whereas in 2022 that hasn't been the case even for the replacements they brought in, other than Stripling.

 

First of all, Manoah 2022 > 2021 both because he's pitched a lot more starts/innings and he's been better overall. Gausman ~ Ray is debatable but a reasonable claim, so actually 2021 Ray/Manoah < 2022 Gausman/Manoah. Stripling has basically been equivalent to one of Ryu/Matz from last season, if not better on a rate basis (he'll pitch fewer innings though which definitely factors in) so not sure why you're discounting him. Obviously Kikuchi has been worse than bad and Berrios has not compared to himself a season ago, but he still projects well/to career norms so it shouldn't be assumed that he'll be a zero going forward ROS. White hasn't even been that bad, an inflated ERA aside - don't see that .380 BABIP being sustainable, so he also shouldn't be discounted as not contributing to the depth.

[Stangstag]

I was talking about the 2021 rotation that got most of the starts (Ray, Manoah, Matz, Ryu, Berrios, Stripling). Of those listed, only Stripling wasn’t a 2 WAR or better SP (Berrios was 1.7 in 12 starts). This season the Jays have 3 dependable SPs. Berrios has been bad, Ryu got hurt, and Kikuchi has been worse than bad. The depth was better last season, especially down the stretch.

 

On paper, the 2022 rotation should have been better. Hasn’t worked out that way.

 

Yeah exactly. The Blue Jays have been underperforming their “on paper” calculations for decades it seems. f***ing sucks

[John_Havok]

 

Shi Davidi

@ShiDavidi

 

Blue Jays add Casey Lawrence and Bradley Zimmer to big-league club as rosters expand, team announces.

 

Lawrence over Merryweather is a bit of a head scratcher, maybe they're just keeping him in AAA as long as his rehab assignment permits then punt Lawrence into the sun when it's over.

[gruber92]

The Orioles are up 1-0 on the first pitch of the game.

 

Lol

[G-Snarls]

Seattle killing Detroit 7-0

[gruber92]

Lawrence over Merryweather is a bit of a head scratcher, maybe they're just keeping him in AAA as long as his rehab assignment permits then punt Lawrence into the sun when it's over.

 

Zimmer and Lawrence instead of Moreno and Merryweather / Pop / Gage is a f***ing joke and screams incompetence.

[Stangstag]

Zimmer and Lawrence instead of Moreno and Merryweather / Pop / Gage is a f***ing joke and screams incompetence.

 

It really doesn’t make any sense

[John_Havok]

Zimmer and Lawrence instead of Moreno and Merryweather / Pop / Gage is a f***ing joke and screams incompetence.

 

Why bring up Moreno to bench warm and maybe pinch hit? Jansen and Kirk can more than handle the catching duties. Not saying Zimmer is the correct move, just saying not adding Moreno isn't necessarily wrong if there's not enough playing time for him.

 

As for Lawrence over the other guys.... yeah, I don't get it unless there's something we dont know about injuries. Like, I get not bringing up 2 of Merryweather/Pop/Gage... because you can only bring up 1, but... Lawrence? He's the worst of that lot by far.

[Grant77]

Calling up Lawrence tells me that they are concerned about fatigue in the bullpen and wanted a long man. All of the others are basically 1 inning guys.

[Stangstag]

Why bring up Moreno to bench warm and maybe pinch hit? Jansen and Kirk can more than handle the catching duties. Not saying Zimmer is the correct move, just saying not adding Moreno isn't necessarily wrong if there's not enough playing time for him.

 

As for Lawrence over the other guys.... yeah, I don't get it unless there's something we dont know about injuries. Like, I get not bringing up 2 of Merryweather/Pop/Gage... because you can only bring up 1, but... Lawrence? He's the worst of that lot by far.

 

Isn’t the AAA season over?

 

EDIT: it aint. For some reason I thought it ended like a month earlier than MLB

[Eat My Shatkins]

Yeah, Lawrence is a "long man" but why should that matter if he f***ing sucks? lol

 

Pretty baffling call up with Pop and Merryweather apparently healthy and ready.

 

I'd even rather see any of Hernandez, Eisert, Gage, Saucedo or Thornton ahead of Lawrence too.

[gruber92]

Why bring up Moreno to bench warm and maybe pinch hit? Jansen and Kirk can more than handle the catching duties. Not saying Zimmer is the correct move, just saying not adding Moreno isn't necessarily wrong if there's not enough playing time for him.

 

As for Lawrence over the other guys.... yeah, I don't get it unless there's something we dont know about injuries. Like, I get not bringing up 2 of Merryweather/Pop/Gage... because you can only bring up 1, but... Lawrence? He's the worst of that lot by far.

 

Moreno is not a typical catcher though. He can be a natural pinch runner for Kirk late in games and probably get a little better defensively at the same time. Moreno just adds so much more. Zimmer's only attribute that's keeping him in the MLB somehow is his defence and he's not that elite. Casey Lawrence is just f***ing unexplainable.

[gruber92]

Isn’t the AAA season over?

 

EDIT: it aint. For some reason I thought it ended like a month earlier than MLB

 

It always did until recently I think.

[Ehjays]

All teams are calling up that top prospect to help get to the finish line and we BOLSTER our struggling lineup with Zimmer and Lawrence.

 

Why they pick Lawrence over one of many mentioned above is beyond me. But Zimmer??? If Teo/Springer/LGJ are your starting 3 that leaves you with Merrifield, Tapia and JBJ on the bench all rotating in the starting line up. Why the f*** do we need Zimmer?? This FO is really hard to understand. I know he has speed, but his baserunning skills suck. Oh boy. Go jays go.

 

One could argue after this call up, our team is worse.

[John_Havok]

Where does the narrative that Zimmer’s baserunning sucks come from?

 

Using whatever measures Fangraphs uses…if you prorated his BSR to 500 PAs he’d be top 15 in baseball. Prorate to 550 he just outside the top 10.

 

Bag on his pool noodle bat all ya like, that’s indefensible but his defense and baserunning are absolutely elite.

[keggy]

I'm pretty sure Pop isn't eligible to come back until Friday or Saturday. I'm guessing they'll option Lawrence back down after 1 day.

[Laika]

All teams are calling up that top prospect to help get to the finish line and we BOLSTER our struggling lineup with Zimmer and Lawrence.

 

Why they pick Lawrence over one of many mentioned above is beyond me. But Zimmer??? If Teo/Springer/LGJ are your starting 3 that leaves you with Merrifield, Tapia and JBJ on the bench all rotating in the starting line up. Why the f*** do we need Zimmer?? This FO is really hard to understand. I know he has speed, but his baserunning skills suck. Oh boy. Go jays go.

 

One could argue after this call up, our team is worse.

 

lol okay man

[Ehjays]

lol okay man

 

If Zimmer is brought in only as a runner from second and Lawrence is used only to eat up innings then I will agree. But I bet Zimmer gets 1 start a week and we see Lawrence in a close game, and that makes this team worse. I hope you are right.

[Laika]

If Zimmer is brought in only as a runner from second and Lawrence is used only to eat up innings then I will agree. But I bet Zimmer gets 1 start a week and we see Lawrence in a close game, and that makes this team worse. I hope you are right.

 

You really think they are going to use Lawrence out of the pen in a close game?

 

He's probably mop up duty or emergency use only. Might never even see him pitch.

 

If they want to start Zimmer over Bradley Jr. that's not a downgrade anyway, just a lateral move s*** to s***.

[Sorrow]

Lawrence is likely going to get a spot start against the Pirates which means during the Oriole's doubleheader we don't need to call anyone up from AAA for that.

[Stangstag]

Lawrence is likely going to get a spot start against the Pirates which means during the Oriole's doubleheader we don't need to call anyone up from AAA for that.

 

Right good point

[Ehjays]

You really think they are going to use Lawrence out of the pen in a close game?

 

He's probably mop up duty or emergency use only. Might never even see him pitch.

 

If they want to start Zimmer over Bradley Jr. that's not a downgrade anyway, just a lateral move s*** to s***.

 

OK, I think we should agree to disagree. With us clinging to that final wild card spot, we have Lawrence and Zimmer called up to help us get over the hump. I know you feel quite confident that this was the absolute best move our team could have made. If it is, than our farm is in worse shape than I thought. If it is not, Atkins job should be on the line.

[Ehjays]

Lawrence is likely going to get a spot start against the Pirates which means during the Oriole's doubleheader we don't need to call anyone up from AAA for that.

 

Lawrence (if that was the plan to have him start) could be the extra guy called up the day of the doubleheader as you are allowed to increase roster to 27 on that day.

[Laika]

OK, I think we should agree to disagree. With us clinging to that final wild card spot, we have Lawrence and Zimmer called up to help us get over the hump. I know you feel quite confident that this was the absolute best move our team could have made. If it is, than our farm is in worse shape than I thought. If it is not, Atkins job should be on the line.

 

No, I never said that.

 

But you said they literally make the team worse. That's dumb.

 

I would have just called up Moreno and Pop probably. Or some other arm like Juenger or even Trent Thornton if Pop can't be called up yet. At least Thornton can have some use as a middle reliever.

[The Cats Ass]

Lawrence over Merryweather is a bit of a head scratcher, maybe they're just keeping him in AAA as long as his rehab assignment permits then punt Lawrence into the sun when it's over.

 

Merryweather is still on the 60-day DL. So a 40-man spot would have to be cleared out for him.

[The Cats Ass]

Lawrence (if that was the plan to have him start) could be the extra guy called up the day of the doubleheader as you are allowed to increase roster to 27 on that day.

 

What's the rule for September though? Nevermind, 29.

 

Maybe they're gonna throw him against Pittsburg instead of the O's. That's personally what I would do. Either the 2 or 3rd game. That would ensure none of our main starter would be throwing on 3 days rest.

Edited September 2, 2022 by The Cats Ass

[Deadpool]

Merryweather is still on the 60-day DL. So a 40-man spot would have to be cleared out for him.

 

Didn't we have to clear one to re-add Bradley Zimmer?