General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2022)

[Brownie19]

Wouldn’t go near an extension with Chapman IMO. Feels like his bat will not age well at all. Lets take the 2 years and fill the slot with someone young after

 

Curious why you feel that way. He'd be entering his age 31 season. He hits the ball really hard, barrels lots of balls, doesn't chase much. As long as his K% is 'back' to the low to mid 20's - I'm not sure what the red flags are. Of course this will all depend on how much it costs to sign him and the duration. The FO has some huge decisions to make very shortly - Teo, Gurriel, Chapman, Vlad, Bo, Jansen......it will be interesting to see who stays and who goes.

[Laika]

Wouldn’t go near an extension with Chapman IMO. Feels like his bat will not age well at all. Lets take the 2 years and fill the slot with someone young after

 

Yeah I wouldn't be super interested either. Type of skill set that falls off a cliff if he loses a bit of bat speed.

 

If he has a great 2023 I would definitely not be interested in a big extension

 

If he has a bad or mediocre 2023 I might be interested in a pillow contract extension though!

[Solaxys]

 

ooo baby.

[Solaxys]

[Solaxys]

 

Springer's elbow must be pretty bad

[John_Havok]

 

Ah yes, the old phantom neck injury from watching balls either get rocketed over your head, or whiplash from having to check all the baserunner's you've put on via walk or HBP.

 

About time.

[gruber92]

 

Holy f***, Ross pulled the fake injury and got Castillo back. Nice job kid.

[Stangstag]

 

ooo baby.

 

Hey at least they’re trying something

[Stangstag]

Holy f***, Ross pulled the fake injury and got Castillo back. Nice job kid.

 

Lol damn. I kinda feel like this clear phantom DL s*** shouldn’t be allowed. Easy roster manipulation

[BlueJaysFever]

 

Springer's elbow must be pretty bad

 

Makes sense. He hasn't looked right since the day before he was noted as having elbow soreness.

[BlueJaysFever]

Lol damn. I kinda feel like this clear phantom DL s*** shouldn’t be allowed. Easy roster manipulation

 

It's always a neck strain too...lol

[Stangstag]

 

Springer's elbow must be pretty bad

 

I remember he made a diving catch in one of those Oakland games and winced afterwards. Probably re-aggravated the injury a bit

[BlueJays]

Lol damn. I kinda feel like this clear phantom DL s*** shouldn’t be allowed. Easy roster manipulation

I'm surprised they allow this s*** lol

[Omar]

I'm surprised they allow this s*** lol

 

We can file this under it’s an open secret, everyone does it and mlb knows.

[Spanky99]

 

Springer's elbow must be pretty bad

 

Not good man, f***.

[Ray]

I'm surprised they allow this s*** lol

 

You need to take a look at the Rays and Dodgers transaction pages the last couple years. Absolutely blatant IL manipulation with injury labels that will make you laugh.

[Spanky99]

Lol damn. I kinda feel like this clear phantom DL s*** shouldn’t be allowed. Easy roster manipulation

 

As long as Kooch is good with it, that's all that matters. And why this happened, golf claps to Yusei.

[InvincibleTiger]

Why don't the Jays pursue Luis Castillo?

 

Manoah

Gausman

Castillo

Berrios

Stripling

 

Is more than decent

[Solaxys]

Why don't the Jays pursue Luis Castillo?

 

Manoah

Gausman

Castillo

Berrios

Stripling

 

Is more than decent

 

He'll cost a lot, and I mean a lot; with Montas hurt, Mets/Dodgers/Twins/Cardinals are all going for him.

Doubt, in our case, he'll go for anything less than Tiedemann. We don't have much else to match any of the offers those teams could put up.

 

And Berrios has a very pricey contract for pitchers in the game atm (not counting extremes like Scherzer/Cole) - they saw him as someone who will reliably slot into 2 (Even 1), so he'll 100% be worked on as our 3 atm (or coaching gets fired). Kikuchi/Ryu-Stripling contracts are a mess but Ryu's contract is done after next year and Kikuchi only makes 10M in 2024 (might actually be traded if he does even remotely well next year cause of the front-loaded contract). I don't think (we shouldn't but I am just being an armchair GM) we make an elite pitcher signing until 2024.

[Dagagad]

If the playoff odds say we need a Castillo size addition, then we do that.

 

It doesn’t matter what we have to give up. The window is time constrained. You can’t just decide not to try.

[Solaxys]

If the playoff odds say we need a Castillo size addition, then we do that.

 

It doesn’t matter what we have to give up. The window is time constrained. You can’t just decide not to try.

 

In 2016, Jays were 44-39, with 8 games to play before ASG. They went 7-1 and finished 51-40.

Trades made by Atkins? we needed starting pitching depth (Estrada injured) and relief pitching (only Osuna/Biagini were good; rest were meh-awful)

Liriano, Grilli, Benoit - who all had good to great years in the past, were struggling this year with their clubs, but became elite for the Jays after the trade (we gave up Hutchinson, Ratcliffe, and Storen)

 

Some arms that were available at the top? Chris Archer (lol pirates; maybe if we weren't competing that year, we could've traded Stroman for the exact same haul as Rays), Chris Sale, Jeremy Hellickson, Rich Hill, Andrew Miller, Drew Pomeranz

On a side note: Dodgers gave up Alvarez, Montas, and Cotton that year to get Rich Hill and Josh Fields; lost in NLCS just like we lost in ALCS

 

This year, Jays are 44-39, with 9 games left to play before ASG.

Very similar situation, we'll see what happens.

Edited July 8, 2022 by Solaxys

[Eat My Shatkins]

I'd rather not gut the farm system any more, at least not for a starting pitcher that might not move the needle any more than Berrios has.

 

Let's see if Max Castillo has any major league abilities, and let Zulueta, Tiedemann and Frasso work their way up the ladder as far as they can this season.

 

I mean, if a pitcher the caliber of Ohtani gets put on the market you go for it, but a bidding war for Luis Castillo is not something I want the Jays getting into.

[Dagagad]

In 2016, Jays were 44-39, with 8 games to play before ASG. They went 7-1 and finished 51-40.

Trades made by Atkins? we needed starting pitching depth (Estrada injured) and relief pitching (only Osuna/Biagini were good; rest were meh-awful)

Liriano, Grilli, Benoit - who all had good to great years in the past, were struggling this year with their clubs, but became elite for the Jays after the trade (we gave up Hutchinson, Ratcliffe, and Storen)

 

Some arms that were available at the top? Chris Archer (lol pirates; maybe if we weren't competing this year, we could've traded Stroman for the exact same haul as Rays), Chris Sale, Jeremy Hellickson, Rich Hill, Andrew Miller, Drew Pomeranz

On a side note: Dodgers gave up Alvarez, Montas, and Cotton that year to get Rich Hill and Josh Fields; lost in NLCS just like we lost in ALCS

 

This year, Jays are 44-39, with 9 games left to play before ASG.

Very similar situation, we'll see what happens.

 

51-40 must have been pretty good odds so small buys made sense.

 

It’s all down to the odds. If the odds determine that we we need to win a lot but feasible amount to get in, then you need to do what you have to do.

 

It’s not a choice. You can’t sign springer, have the countdown of vlad’s control, berrios contract and gausman contract, and not use the appropriate means depending on the odds. The window is open, the clock is ticking.

 

From memory the rays were competing when they sold archer. That’s one of the reason they get those kinds of deals. It’s sheer willingness to do that mid contention.

 

Also, the dodgers get to sell a ton of prospects every year, they know they can make more.

[Terminator]

I'd rather not gut the farm system any more, at least not for a starting pitcher that might not move the needle any more than Berrios has.

 

Let's see if Max Castillo has any major league abilities, and let Zulueta, Tiedemann and Frasso work their way up the ladder as far as they can this season.

 

I mean, if a pitcher the caliber of Ohtani gets put on the market you go for it, but a bidding war for Luis Castillo is not something I want the Jays getting into.

 

The team is going to be in contention for the foreseeable future so if it's for someone with control I have no problem pulling the trigger. If it's just for rentals I probably would prefer they just go and get a depth starter or two.

[Jimcanuck]

Not sure this is the year to go all in. With new playoff format, it's a seller's market.

 

Agree with the so called sheriff though. Trading for a player with control that plays position of need is always a good move.

[InvincibleTiger]

So how is that we have the worst bullpen in our division? Even the Orioles have a lockdown 7-8-9 in Perez, Bautista and Lopez

 

Does Ross not know the importance of a shutdown pen with guys that can miss bats?

[Dagagad]

Not sure this is the year to go all in. With new playoff format, it's a seller's market.

 

Agree with the so called sheriff though. Trading for a player with control that plays position of need is always a good move.

 

Realistically this window ends after 2025 just looking at the springer deal (you have to assume that isn’t a great contract by then), Gausman is 35 after that year and possible not a good contract either, and vlad and Bo are out of control then.

 

That even might be a little optimistic. You realistically would have to find new cheap talent by then because Bo and Vlad would be expensive in their final arb year as well.

 

So. this is bang in the middle of the window and at the better end of springer and gausman’s age curves.

 

If we aren’t going to go for it this year (assuming you need to because where you are at the deadline) then we never will.

[Laika]

So how is that we have the worst bullpen in our division? Even the Orioles have a lockdown 7-8-9 in Perez, Bautista and Lopez

 

Does Ross not know the importance of a shutdown pen with guys that can miss bats?

 

Wellllllllll part of it is that the division is stacked.

 

By fWAR Toronto has the 7th best bullpen in the AL. The only non AL East teams with superior pens by fWAR are Detroit (by half a win) and Houston.

 

lmao

 

Yes, by ERA they rank worse but that's not a park adjusted, or luck adjusted, or strength-of-schedule adjusted stat so no sense looking at it

 

By K-BB% Toronto's pen is the 5th best in the AL, including better than BOS and BAL

 

 

 

 

Complaints about the bullpen are mildly overblown.

 

It's not elite but it's not actually a complete disaster.

[The Iceman]

Wellllllllll part of it is that the division is stacked.

 

By fWAR Toronto has the 7th best bullpen in the AL. The only non AL East teams with superior pens by fWAR are Detroit (by half a win) and Houston.

 

lmao

 

Yes, by ERA they rank worse but that's not a park adjusted, or luck adjusted, or strength-of-schedule adjusted stat so no sense looking at it

 

By K-BB% Toronto's pen is the 5th best in the AL, including better than BOS and BAL

 

 

 

 

Complaints about the bullpen are mildly overblown.

 

It's not elite but it's not actually a complete disaster.

 

Any MLB pen that has Romo, Richards, Banda and Lawrence is pathetic. End of story.

[Brownie19]

So how is that we have the worst bullpen in our division? Even the Orioles have a lockdown 7-8-9 in Perez, Bautista and Lopez

 

Does Ross not know the importance of a shutdown pen with guys that can miss bats?

 

I suspect Ross is completely oblivious. I hear he takes advice from Buck and Tabby.