Around Baseball 2021

[BTS]

"it would open up the floodgates for WAR manipulation on behalf of the clubs"

 

What the f*** does this mean? This reads like someone who has absolutely no f***ing idea how statistics work.

 

The ONLY drawback I can see is the 29 1/2 thing, as it will delay free agency for SOME players, but the fWAR component should effectively reward the best players. "Relievers" and "pitchers who rely on soft contact" SHOULD get paid less than ones who are, y'know, better.

 

The criticisms of using an algorithm to determine arb salaries pretty much boil down to "I don't like change". Obviously there would be many issues to work out, but the current process objectively uses much worse information than an algorithm would.

[Brownie19]

The criticisms of using an algorithm to determine arb salaries pretty much boil down to "I don't like change". Obviously there would be many issues to work out, but the current process objectively uses much worse information than an algorithm would.

 

This is 100% spot on. I'm not sure how anyone with any logical comes up with any other conclusion.

[connorp]

"it would open up the floodgates for WAR manipulation on behalf of the clubs"

 

What the f*** does this mean? This reads like someone who has absolutely no f***ing idea how statistics work.

 

The ONLY drawback I can see is the 29 1/2 thing, as it will delay free agency for SOME players, but the fWAR component should effectively reward the best players. "Relievers" and "pitchers who rely on soft contact" SHOULD get paid less than ones who are, y'know, better.

 

What do you mean? One likely offender that pops to mind is TB rotating out s***** guys bc they’re compiling too much defensive value.

 

Why would a backend s***** inning-eating SP be more valuable than an elite RP? Are they on the open market? And who is actually better? And while maybe as a collective whole, guys that get more whiffs are better, should you penalize some of the guys who are legit, or even possible legit FIP busters?

 

I’m not s***ing on the whole concept, as BTs said, a lot would need to be worked out. But all of your argument sucks

[RobinThicc]

[P2F]

 

Why MLB seems headed toward a lockout -- and how that'll create a free-agent frenzy

 

CARLSBAD, Calif. -- Here in paradise, a place where the sun shines every hour available, a cloak of darkness was omnipresent this week. Almost every substantive conversation at Major League Baseball's GM meetings touched on -- or, quite often, centered around -- the Dec. 1 expiration of the collective bargaining agreement, which would be followed by a lockout of the players and an indefinite shutdown of the sport. Even if there remains optimism in most corners that no one would be myopic enough for games to be lost to the first labor stoppage in more than a quarter-century, the prospect of a gloomy winter nevertheless colored the proceedings and already is shaping baseball in unexpected ways.

 

While the meetings produced two signings for a combined $10.5 million and zero trades, the villas and suites at the Omni La Costa resort bustled with activity -- the sorts of conversations typically reserved for December's winter meetings, which were treated as if they're not happening. The looming threat of a lockout, seen by most as an inevitability at this point, is creating a dynamic that underpinned talks all week. Words were spoken, ideas bandied about, groundwork for deals laid. And everyone looked at everyone else thinking the same thing, though no one dared say it aloud.

 

How much of this is real, and how much of it is posturing?

 

In the coming days, weeks, months, the answers of what was genuine at the GM meetings will reveal themselves. The most interesting twist, certainly, occurred on the free-agent side. Teams essentially suggested players have a choice: Sign before the lockout or wait until February, when most everyone expects the labor discord to end, and have fun navigating the frenzy of signings and trades that will ensue. Agents for some of the highest-profile free agents this winter, in the meantime, inverted the posture: If you want a player, step up financially, because the February stampede is going to be so different, so unfamiliar, that it's worth paying more for certainty now than having to overpay or be left empty-handed on the eve of the season.

 

 

The fallout is a sense that Corey Seager, the magnificent Los Angeles Dodgers shortstop, and Marcus Semien, the dynamic Toronto infielder, are increasingly likely to sign before Dec. 1, executives interested in the players told ESPN. Both are clients of Scott Boras, who two winter meetings ago fetched more than $800 million guaranteed for Stephen Strasburg, Gerrit Cole and Anthony Rendon over three days. With the rhetoric that the sides treated this week like that time of year, teams and players making surgical free-agent strikes -- even on projected nine-figure deals -- feels like more of a possibility, though not a certainty, than it did even a week ago. It's not just Boras' clients, either. The starting pitching market, sources said, is expected to have multiple big-name pitchers get pre-lockout deals.

 

Full article

[Brownie19]

Agents for some of the highest-profile free agents this winter, in the meantime, inverted the posture: If you want a player, step up financially, because the February stampede is going to be so different, so unfamiliar, that it's worth paying more for certainty now than having to overpay or be left empty-handed on the eve of the season.

 

What a shocking position for the agents to take.

[glory]

On one hand, a lockout sucks and the next 2-3 months without any baseball news would suck. On the other hand, the thought of February having a month long flurry of big signings/trades, followed by spring training, and then right after that the regular season is pretty interesting. The NBA off season is basically one week of excitement followed by months of down time. Baseball winters are big moves spaced out over 4-5 months so at times it can seem boring as hell. A February-March stampede of moves followed by the regular season immediately after that would be crazy.

[TwistedLogic]

Agents for some of the highest-profile free agents this winter, in the meantime, inverted the posture: If you want a player, step up financially, because the February stampede is going to be so different, so unfamiliar, that it's worth paying more for certainty now than having to overpay or be left empty-handed on the eve of the season.

 

What a shocking position for the agents to take.

 

Those same agents will be begging those same teams to sign their guys come February.

[TwistedLogic]

Freeman apparently turned down 5 years x 27M AAV from the Braves.

 

Guess there's no hometown discount there.

[Stangstag]

Freeman apparently turned down 5 years x 27M AAV from the Braves.

 

Guess there's no hometown discount there.

 

Lol imagine the Braves paying Freeman more than Acuna and Albies combined

[Deadpool]

What do you mean? One likely offender that pops to mind is TB rotating out s***** guys bc they’re compiling too much defensive value.

 

Why would a backend s***** inning-eating SP be more valuable than an elite RP? Are they on the open market? And who is actually better? And while maybe as a collective whole, guys that get more whiffs are better, should you penalize some of the guys who are legit, or even possible legit FIP busters?

 

I’m not s***ing on the whole concept, as BTs said, a lot would need to be worked out. But all of your argument sucks

 

If a team is fielding a team to be worse because of contract considerations, there are bigger problems than how the salary figures are calculated.

 

A s***** inning-eating SP is (often) more valuable than an elite RP, that's literally what WAR calculates.

 

I'm fine with the rare "FIP buster" being paid less if the trade-off is that we stop valuing saves & RBIs.

[Abomination]

If a team is fielding a team to be worse because of contract considerations, there are bigger problems than how the salary figures are calculated.

 

A s***** inning-eating SP is (often) more valuable than an elite RP, that's literally what WAR calculates.

 

I'm fine with the rare "FIP buster" being paid less if the trade-off is that we stop valuing saves & RBIs.

 

It's an interesting argument to pay by WAR, but I don't think it's a very healthy one for the game. I think better would be to have fixed salaries for young players (maybe 1M?), with additional (potential) position dependent bonuses paid separately for both offense and defense compared to the league average at the position, perhaps prorated to the number of games played at the position and adding an additional kicker for playing multiple positions. That would encourage young players to focus on both sides of the game, reward them for performance while also providing some cost-certainty for the team (or at the very least the team knows they'll be paying for performance). For years 25 through 27 the fixed portion can increase each year, and at 28 there's automatic free agency.

[connorp]

If a team is fielding a team to be worse because of contract considerations, there are bigger problems than how the salary figures are calculated.

 

A s***** inning-eating SP is (often) more valuable than an elite RP, that's literally what WAR calculates.

 

I'm fine with the rare "FIP buster" being paid less if the trade-off is that we stop valuing saves & RBIs.

 

Bro: take the first complaint to all the TB fans here

 

The market pays more to elite RPs that are closers and setup men, than s***** SPs. You may not like that as a fan, but that’s what the market is with the billion dollar teams paying players millions. The easy fix there seems to be some sort of sliding scale for RPs

 

Again, with the last part, glad you’re ok with it as a fan but I’ll bet the PA will have issues with it

[Abomination]

Bro: take the first complaint to all the TB fans here

 

The market pays more to elite RPs that are closers and setup men, than s***** SPs. You may not like that as a fan, but that’s what the market is with the billion dollar teams paying players millions. The easy fix there seems to be some sort of sliding scale for RPs

 

Again, with the last part, glad you’re ok with it as a fan but I’ll bet the PA will have issues with it

 

The PA needs to start having issues with itself. Some of their stances are purely ideological and self-serving rather than what's best for the players.

[connorp]

The PA needs to start having issues with itself. Some of their stances are purely ideological and self-serving rather than what's best for the players.

 

Maybe, and again, I’m not failing against it as a concept but UZR and FIP have their objective short-comings. Especially in a short window of time, so there would be a lot to sort through

[Deadpool]

It's an interesting argument to pay by WAR, but I don't think it's a very healthy one for the game. I think better would be to have fixed salaries for young players (maybe 1M?), with additional (potential) position dependent bonuses paid separately for both offense and defense compared to the league average at the position, perhaps prorated to the number of games played at the position and adding an additional kicker for playing multiple positions. That would encourage young players to focus on both sides of the game, reward them for performance while also providing some cost-certainty for the team (or at the very least the team knows they'll be paying for performance). For years 25 through 27 the fixed portion can increase each year, and at 28 there's automatic free agency.

 

Fixed salaries for players (in arb years) is something the PA would absolutely never go for. There's no reason in the world for Vladdy to make less money than Jansen next year, but that's what would happen in your scenario.

[John_Havok]

The only things I really want from the new CBA are ... no more ******** manipulation of service time clocks. Get rid of them. If they get called up, that season is automatically their 1st year of control. right there. No # of days, nothing. If they're up at all, even to ride the bench, burn the year. Make teams want to call up their players instead of giving them incentives not to.

 

and pitch clocks. Good god give me a pitch clock to stop all the endless down time between pitches.

[Abomination]

Fixed salaries for players (in arb years) is something the PA would absolutely never go for. There's no reason in the world for Vladdy to make less money than Jansen next year, but that's what would happen in your scenario.

 

No he wouldn't. Only the guaranteed portion is fixed. Vladdy's performance would add a ton of bonuses that would push him up far beyond what he's currently making. In fact, both players would make more than they currently are since Jansen is very good defensively.

[Abomination]

The only things I really want from the new CBA are ... no more ******** manipulation of service time clocks. Get rid of them. If they get called up, that season is automatically their 1st year of control. right there. No # of days, nothing. If they're up at all, even to ride the bench, burn the year. Make teams want to call up their players instead of giving them incentives not to.

 

and pitch clocks. Good god give me a pitch clock to stop all the endless down time between pitches.

 

Don't forget roboumps. Last season was brutal.

[connorp]

Don't forget roboumps. Last season was brutal.

 

You know what would be a good compromise until the technology was ready: overturning the really bad calls in real time. They definitely have the technology to do it. Anything say off the borderlines or something idk. That would teach the umps to keep their head out of their ass anyway

[Abomination]

You know what would be a good compromise until the technology was ready: overturning the really bad calls in real time. They definitely have the technology to do it. Anything say off the borderlines or something idk. That would teach the umps to keep their head out of their ass anyway

 

I think if they tried to do that they'd get an umpire lockout. There's no reason they can't have something in real time that buzzes them for strikes or something. The umpire can still ignore it if the computer throws a fit or something. It might even speed one or two umpires up a little

[connorp]

I think if they tried to do that they'd get an umpire lockout. There's no reason they can't have something in real time that buzzes them for strikes or something. The umpire can still ignore it if the computer throws a fit or something. It might even speed one or two umpires up a little

 

Yeah, I mean in the minors they get buzzed with balls and strikes so no doubt technology is ready to go in that respect. Something like I said seems like a compromise. Yeah, of course the umpire union wouldn’t be having it. I don’t know all the legal ramifications of them locking out but obviously that’s something replaceable where nobody would give a s*** that the “pros” are striking

[Ryu In My House]

The only things I really want from the new CBA are ... no more ******** manipulation of service time clocks. Get rid of them. If they get called up, that season is automatically their 1st year of control. right there. No # of days, nothing. If they're up at all, even to ride the bench, burn the year. Make teams want to call up their players instead of giving them incentives not to.

 

and pitch clocks. Good god give me a pitch clock to stop all the endless down time between pitches.

 

Universal DH, division re-alignment, robo-umps (with a firm ETA) and pitch clocks for me...in that order.

[John_Havok]

Universal DH, division re-alignment, robo-umps (with a firm ETA) and pitch clocks for me...in that order.

 

Ah yes, forgot about Universal DH, gimme that too. If for no other reason than to watch every single baseball fan over the age of 50 have their head explode instantly.

[Jays24]

Along with the idea of pitch clocks, no more than 1 warm up pitch for pitchers every time they take the mound. That goes for starting pitchers to start a new inning and pitchers who just got put in from the pen.

 

There is 0 reason for them to need extra pitches to stall the game when they could get that work done in the pen. Then you start putting a shorter clock in between innings unless the catcher was the last out since he'd need more time to get the equipment on.

[Abomination]

Along with the idea of pitch clocks, no more than 1 warm up pitch for pitchers every time they take the mound. That goes for starting pitchers to start a new inning and pitchers who just got put in from the pen.

 

There is 0 reason for them to need extra pitches to stall the game when they could get that work done in the pen. Then you start putting a shorter clock in between innings unless the catcher was the last out since he'd need more time to get the equipment on.

 

No, the warmup pitches are important. If you had the starting pitchers go to the pen to do it between innings, it would still take them as long to get back to the mound as it does now from the dugout with the warmup pitches. For relievers coming in, the BP mound and game mound often feel very different. There's lots of things to cut down on, but that isn't one of them.

[Jays24]

No, the warmup pitches are important. If you had the starting pitchers go to the pen to do it between innings, it would still take them as long to get back to the mound as it does now from the dugout with the warmup pitches. For relievers coming in, the BP mound and game mound often feel very different. There's lots of things to cut down on, but that isn't one of them.

 

Baseballs the only sport that players need constant warmups during the game. Not only that but they can call as many timeouts as they want in the batters box... enough of the BS stoppages and have the players man up. There's enough downtime in between their outings for players to figure out how to stay ready. Otherwise enjoy the 4.5 hour games that only the diehards can watch.

[Jimcanuck]

The warmup pitches are when the advertising dollars come in. Not going to change.

 

Definitely once its game on, cut out the delays, both batter and pitcher.

[L54]

Baseballs the only sport that players need constant warmups during the game. Not only that but they can call as many timeouts as they want in the batters box... enough of the BS stoppages and have the players man up. There's enough downtime in between their outings for players to figure out how to stay ready. Otherwise enjoy the 4.5 hour games that only the diehards can watch.

 

Have you ever stepped on a mound and pitched in a real game?

[Abomination]

Baseballs the only sport that players need constant warmups during the game. Not only that but they can call as many timeouts as they want in the batters box... enough of the BS stoppages and have the players man up. There's enough downtime in between their outings for players to figure out how to stay ready. Otherwise enjoy the 4.5 hour games that only the diehards can watch.

 

I agree with eliminating the constant stepping out in the batters box (which I believe is actually supposed to be eliminated already, but not enforced). Anyone who has ever pitched at any level will tell you the importance of the warmup pitches though. You have to have them, particularly after sitting on the bench between innings. Trying to stay loose the entire time in the dugout would fatigue the arm too much, particularly when some innings are extended.