Vlad Jr. to Indy Ball

[Laika]

Vernon 2007 will be the closest thing to Vlad. Just pure suckage. They are also comparable in terms of talent and star level - their WAR highs and lows are similar. 

Hinske 2003 was hugely disappointing 

Bo's 2024 is right there

Alex Rios in 2009 lmao 

You almost want to compare it to the big pitcher losses for injuries, like Johnson, Halladay, Stroman, BJ Ryan, but those you can just write off in a few days and you don't get mad at the player because it's not their fault. It's that magnitude of sudden loss but you hate the player so much more for it.

I am sure there were a bunch of huge disappointments on the 1994 and 1995 Blue Jays but I don't know. Fans were not as savvy. They probably still likes Joe Carter because .250 with 25 homers was still "solid production."

[Laika]

I think Vlad's is the worst ever. Highest expectations and lowest lows. Biggest actual underperformance. And the most problematic context, coming off the World Series and his contract. 

Just FRANCHISE RUINING. 

A FRANCHISE RUINING PLAYER. 

[Brownie19]

15 minutes ago, Laika said:

I think Vlad's is the worst ever. Highest expectations and lowest lows. Biggest actual underperformance. And the most problematic context, coming off the World Series and his contract. 

Just FRANCHISE RUINING. 

A FRANCHISE RUINING PLAYER. 

Someone call the Angels and see if they'll bail us outta this again like they did with Vernon Wells.  Hurry before Arte Moreno dies.

[Olerud363.354]

10 minutes ago, Laika said:

I am sure there were a bunch of huge disappointments on the 1994 and 1995 Blue Jays but I don't know. Fans were not as savvy. They probably still likes Joe Carter because .250 with 25 homers was still "solid production."

1995 Jays - John Olerud was the best hitter and really the best player and thought of as the worst and got sat for Jacob Brumfield and traded for Robert Pearson.  

After Gillick left there were no adults in the room and they thought negative WAR Joe Carter was the best player, and let Hentgen and Guzman throw 140 pitches a start.  It was crazy.  Absolute nut-case craziness.  

Vlad has ruined the franchise because of the contract, so the Toronto Blue Jays are over.  They won't recover from that, but it was just God.  God said lets ruin Vlad and cause them pain.   But the 1994-2014 dark spot was caused by man, so recoverable.  When God decides to end the only Canadian franchise nothing we can do. 

[Olerud363.354]

2044 - As I look across Lake America with my Grandson, I say to the boy, there used to be a team, a baseball team, they played there, brought many joy, but the joy ended summer 2026. 

The boy says 'but gramps, I never knew un-represented territories were allowed baseball teams?'.

I laugh.  Been listening to President Eric too much.  But no reason the territory wouldn't be allowed a team, the economy is decent over there still, and the basketball and hockey teams still runs.

I said, nothing to do with those politics grandson, just a man named Vladimir, who was suppose to be great and they gave half a billion to, just wasn't recoverable unfortunately.  Now they play in Nashville of all places.  Though I don't follow them there, just isn't the same. 

(not political, just a reflection of what is going to happen). 

[R.O.]

My personal opinion is that Vladdy can't be the only "Star" position player on the team.  When he has a running mate, I think he performs better.

Vladdy came up with a great eye at the plate and allowed the game and pitchers to come to him.  When he feels like he has to do everything, he expands his strike zone and starts to swing at everything.  Which means he is all out of whack and doesn't make good contact.

But when he has a buddy he believes is a star performer, he is more cautious at the plate and lets the game come to him.

[Laika]

Looking across Lake America and telling your son about how a guy named Vlad ruined the baseball franchise that used to exist in the Unincorporated Township of Canada is amazing theorycrafting 

[Terminator]

He's still hitting fastballs okay but his wOBA vs. breaking balls is .218 on the year. That's not a misprint.

[Laika]

8 minutes ago, Terminator said:

He's still hitting fastballs okay but his wOBA vs. breaking balls is .218 on the year. That's not a misprint.

He's doing only one thing right against fastballs and that's slapping them in play for base hits 

That is the only thing his swing can mechanically do right now

.118 ISO on fastballs... in his good years that's more like .200

He is whiffing on fastballs less than ever, but hitting them softer than ever, which is interesting but sad. Just seems like a guy who is broken and lost and had his testosterone evaporate in the offseason and all he is trying to do is make contact

[glory]

1 hour ago, Laika said:

Vernon 2007 will be the closest thing to Vlad. Just pure suckage. They are also comparable in terms of talent and star level - their WAR highs and lows are similar. 

Hinske 2003 was hugely disappointing 

Bo's 2024 is right there

Alex Rios in 2009 lmao 

You almost want to compare it to the big pitcher losses for injuries, like Johnson, Halladay, Stroman, BJ Ryan, but those you can just write off in a few days and you don't get mad at the player because it's not their fault. It's that magnitude of sudden loss but you hate the player so much more for it.

I am sure there were a bunch of huge disappointments on the 1994 and 1995 Blue Jays but I don't know. Fans were not as savvy. They probably still likes Joe Carter because .250 with 25 homers was still "solid production."

Wells is the closest comp. If I recall, the story was that Ricciardi was ready to move Wells that winter (Rios was already a built in CF replacement) but Godfrey/Rogers didn't want to lose Wells, so the extension happened. There's a lesson in there somewhere about history and those who don't learn from it.

[Terminator]

Olerud was the one who asked how much money would you spend to protect your $500M asset? Would another $50M be worth it? We all agreed yes.

Let's get Vlad his own personal hitting coach. Who wants 4 million bucks a year? Joey Votto do you need a job?

[Omar]

1 hour ago, Laika said:

Looking across Lake America and telling your son about how a guy named Vlad ruined the baseball franchise that used to exist in the Unincorporated Township of Canada is amazing theorycrafting 

It is dystopian.

[bluejaysinternNo5]

Arte Moreno actually would gladly take on the contract. All in favour?

[Laika]

17 minutes ago, Terminator said:

Olerud was the one who asked how much money would you spend to protect your $500M asset? Would another $50M be worth it? We all agreed yes.

Let's get Vlad his own personal hitting coach. Who wants 4 million bucks a year? Joey Votto do you need a job?

Hire that anti-aging guy to work with him in perpetuity. Brian Johnson? 

And hire the entire Driveline Business - acquire it and black box it. All for Vlad though. 

[glory]

Build an Arte Moreno statue outside Rogers Centre if he agrees to take the Vlad contract too. I don't think even he's that insane, but worth a shot. 

[Brownie19]

15 minutes ago, Laika said:

Hire that anti-aging guy to work with him in perpetuity. Brian Johnson? 

And hire the entire Driveline Business - acquire it and black box it. All for Vlad though. 

All the help in the world won't help unless Vlad accepts that change is needed and is willing to work to fix it.  No sign that either of those will happen.

Vlad surrounds himself with "yes men" and has a group of people he's willing to work with.  We've heard about this and discussed it for years (2022 through 2024).  The Jays fly in Wilton Guerrero and others when he's slumping.  He needs profession help, not one of the 1294 family members he has.

[Olerud363.354]

30 minutes ago, Brownie19 said:

All the help in the world won't help unless Vlad accepts that change is needed and is willing to work to fix it.  No sign that either of those will happen.

Vlad surrounds himself with "yes men" and has a group of people he's willing to work with.  We've heard about this and discussed it for years (2022 through 2024).  The Jays fly in Wilton Guerrero and others when he's slumping.  He needs profession help, not one of the 1294 family members he has.

What about Cito, Edwin and Bautista?  Would those three be able to reach him?  Would their advice work in 2028 for 29 year old Vlad?  After the strike he will be the same age as Edwin and Bautista were when they remade themselves. 

Advice 1: Swing hard

Advice 2: Pull that ball

Advice 3: ?

Like they fly in Wilton Guerrero and they are surprised that he hits like Wilton.  Fly in Bautista.  And 83 year old Cito. 

[Brownie19]

Vlad has zero incentive to make changes.  He got his money.  

[Olerud363.354]

What people don't realize is that a player like Vlad looked at age 19 and age 22 is far rarer then a World Series appearance.  On average a World Series appearance should happen every 15 years.

We've had one super prospect in 50 years.  We've had one early 20s mega-season in 50 years.  This type of thing comes around for a team once every 200 years on average (I made that up but prove me wrong).  World Series appearance once every 15 years. 

We will never see this again.  Every prospect that as a 19 year old hits .250 with some walks, exit v and pop at 19 in Dunnedin ??  I mean like Jo Jo Parker.  Like that's nothing.  VLAD HIT .400 in AA as a 19 year old. 

Every guy that hits .250 with 21 homers at age 23 and we get excited.  Vlad almost hit 50 homers and won a triple crown at 22.  Set a record for homers as a 22 or under.   Like that happens literally 1 in 3000 years for each franchise. 

It will never happen again.  We will never have a prospect or 22 year old this again.  And it has been lost. 

[Olerud363.354]

1 every 3000 years : prospect/young player as good as Vlad at 19 and 22

1 every 30 years: hitting prospect as good as Delgado

1 every 15 years: hitting prospect as good as Wells, Jo Jo Parker, Bichette. 

1 every year: hitting prospect as good as Tucker Toman

So we'll hopefully someday see another Delgado.  Guy who tears up minors at 21, 22, up and down a bit and has a good prime (26-31).  Hopefully we see that again someday. 

[Masterbather]

I can't even get angry anymore. To be angry you must still have some semblance of hope.

It has gotten to a point where I've lost hope. Dude looks f***ing washed. It's historic. 

I'm just numb watching him now. Even when he f***s up on the field I don't even react anymore. 

I feel nothing with him anymore. 

At least for this season, which slowly is slipping away, I'm in the acceptance phase. 

 

 

[Brownie19]

27 minutes ago, Masterbather said:

I can't even get angry anymore. To be angry you must still have some semblance of hope.

It has gotten to a point where I've lost hope. Dude looks f***ing washed. It's historic. 

I'm just numb watching him now. Even when he f***s up on the field I don't even react anymore. 

I feel nothing with him anymore. 

At least for this season, which slowly is slipping away, I'm in the acceptance phase. 

My 10 year old loves Vlad (like most kids do).  Watching that spark slowly burn out is incredibly difficult.  I've generally never liked Vlad, but I've bit my tongue as I didn't want to discourage a young fan.  But I've now had to explain to him that Vlad might just suck balls.  It's brutal.

[Laika]

It's so bad that I daydream about ways to get out of the contract 

Hopefully he gets caught betting on games or something 

[Masterbather]

25 minutes ago, Brownie19 said:

My 10 year old loves Vlad (like most kids do).  Watching that spark slowly burn out is incredibly difficult.  I've generally never liked Vlad, but I've bit my tongue as I didn't want to discourage a young fan.  But I've now had to explain to him that Vlad might just suck balls.  It's brutal.

You know this might just be the new normal in baseball. Given how good the pitching is now, the extraordinary precision of scouting reports, far beyond the precision they had even 10 to 15 years ago, slumps that used to last a few weeks in the past might now last several months. Vlad isn't the the only one even if he may be among the more extreme examples. The game is designed to amplify hitter failure in a way it's never been before.

You might have superstars just randomly having complete failures of a season more often now.

They might bounce back it just might take them and entire season before they do.

[Olerud363.354]

15 minutes ago, Masterbather said:

You know this might just be the new normal in baseball. Given how good the pitching is now, the extraordinary precision of scouting reports, far beyond the precision they had even 10 to 15 years ago, slumps that used to last a few weeks in the past might now last several months. Vlad isn't the the only one even if he may be among the more extreme examples. The game is designed to amplify hitter failure in a way it's never been before.

I often thought that 2021 wasn't the minor league ballpark.  Probably the scouting.  I mean the lack of advance scouting during Covid. 

But then how to explain 2024?  Or playoffs 2025 ?  The playoffs should have had the most advanced, advanced scouting of all.  

Not disagreeing with you.   Maybe just AI getting better and better, after the 2025 playoffs they fed every Vlad at bat of all time into the machine and it said 'throw him this and he never will be good again'.

Someone must have some data on how he is being pitched?  Different in 2026?  

[glory]

JoJo Parker, who started this season as a teenager, will be 33 years old during the final year of Vlad's contract. 

[Olerud363.354]

35 minutes ago, Brownie19 said:

My 10 year old loves Vlad (like most kids do).  Watching that spark slowly burn out is incredibly difficult.  I've generally never liked Vlad, but I've bit my tongue as I didn't want to discourage a young fan.  But I've now had to explain to him that Vlad might just suck balls.  It's brutal.

Your son should have had the opportunity to go see another Vlad triple crown chase a time or two this decade. 

Your son when in jr. high should have had the opportunity to watch Vlad break every Blue Jays record there is. 

Your son should have had the opportunity to come home from work at his first job, or grad school or whatever he's doing and call his old man when Vlad is up trying to get his 3000th hit. 

Won't happen now.  14 years of end stage Miguel Cabrera. 

 

[Olerud363.354]

I thought for sure Vlad would get homer 200 last year with a big year.  With the strike he might not get it this decade. 

Finish this year at 190 homers

2027 canceld. 

2028 2 homers in 70 games (192)

2029 .205 8 homers in 120 games (200)

OK he might get 200 this decade.  Will you be cheering in 2029 if he does? 

[Masterbather]

2 hours ago, Olerud363.354 said:

I often thought that 2021 wasn't the minor league ballpark.  Probably the scouting.  I mean the lack of advance scouting during Covid. 

But then how to explain 2024?  Or playoffs 2025 ?  The playoffs should have had the most advanced, advanced scouting of all.  

Not disagreeing with you.   Maybe just AI getting better and better, after the 2025 playoffs they fed every Vlad at bat of all time into the machine and it said 'throw him this and he never will be good again'.

Someone must have some data on how he is being pitched?  Different in 2026?  

I think it's more that if you fall into a slump and your confidence and mechanics take a dive, it's now much more difficult to get out of the funk.

A great hitter that's zoned in will be great no matter what, but once you lose that feeling, the game today makes it very difficult to get it back.

[Omar]

1 hour ago, Masterbather said:

I think it's more that if you fall into a slump and your confidence and mechanics take a dive, it's now much more difficult to get out of the funk.

A great hitter that's zoned in will be great no matter what, but once you lose that feeling, the game today makes it very difficult to get it back.

I think in this instance the only explanation is there's  a woman to blame.  Or so says Jimmy Buffet.