2019 Trade Deadline Thread

[keggy]

It's the classic risk aversion vs. risk taker debate. The 99th percentile outcome of a Rk league pitcher is that he never makes the majors, with <1% chance that he becomes a starter. Yeah you could "dream on him", but it doesn't make it the better deal over a safer McKinney type, who has a much higher chance to become a 2 WAR contributor given more playing time.

 

If you want to judge them at face value, fine. But it's also fair to give some of these players more rope rather than writing them off as "nothing" in their first full year of facing major league pitching, ala Billy McKinney. There are plenty of examples of players getting more and more comfortable as the years go by. It's probably applicable to most major leaguers playing today. Most didn't blossom until they were 1 or 2 or 3 years into the league or grew closer to the major league average age.

 

s***** rookie ball pitchers are what you expect for Steve Pearce and Seunghwan Oh. You can get more for Happ.

[glory]

It's the classic risk aversion vs. risk taker debate. The 99th percentile outcome of a Rk league pitcher is that he never makes the majors, with <1% chance that he becomes a starter. Yeah you could "dream on him", but it doesn't make it the better deal over a safer McKinney type, who has a much higher chance to become a 2 WAR contributor given more playing time.

 

If you want to judge them at face value, fine. But it's also fair to give some of these players more rope rather than writing them off as "nothing" in their first full year of facing major league pitching, ala Billy McKinney. There are plenty of examples of players getting more and more comfortable as the years go by. It's probably applicable to most major leaguers playing today. Most didn't blossom until they were 1 or 2 or 3 years into the league or grew closer to the major league average age.

 

McKinney is a jack of no trades. He does nothing well. Can't hit for average, power is not great, can't field, can't run, etc. His minor league numbers when his BABIP wasn't .350 were pretty average to below average across the board. Three teams weren't going to give up on him before his 24th birthday if he was any good. Known s*** taking up a 40 man roster spot versus potential s*** that is years away but might have a 5% chance of being good is an easy decision for a team that was on the verge of scorching earth. McKinney does nothing for this team. If Luciano was in the minors and was putting up decent numbers in A/A+, he'd be a trade asset. Maybe not a huge one, but better than McKinney.

 

If anyone thought McKinney was actually a 2 WAR caliber player then sure, that would be fair. That was a stretch though. I think Teoscar has a better chance of being that type of player than McKinney does, and Teoscar's just as much a long shot.

 

I'm not saying Happ for a low-A ball lotto ticket would have been a good trade, I'm saying it would have been better than getting what we got. Like I said you could sell me on Drury being a buy low candidate (even though I didn't see the point of acquiring him if we were rebuilding), but at least attach him with even a 45 FV prospect or someone with some upside. Putting McKinney in that category even at the time of the trade would have been a stretch.

[Krylian]

Stroman will go to the Braves, you heard it here first..

 

Cristian Pache

[Maico450]

Ian Anderson

[Abomination]

My money is still on the Yankees. Lots of NY publications writing about Stroman and Cashman seems to like him.

 

I'll go with Stro to the Yankees and Giles to the Twins. Those seem like the safest bets at least.

 

I think there was some talk about Colorado wanting him. They're only 2.5 back in the wildcard, so I could see it. An extreme ground ball pitcher makes sense in that park too.

 

Stroman and Giles for Rodgers

[Terminator]

The Rangers just got Nick Solak from the Rays for Peter Fairbanks.

 

Kind of like that for the Rangers on first glance but the Rays obviously know something.

[Spanky99]

The Rangers just got Nick Solak from the Rays for Peter Fairbanks.

 

Kind of like that for the Rangers on first glance but the Rays obviously know something.

 

70 FB, 55 Slider, 50 Command, get him throwing a CU... Boom! TB M.O...

[Terminator]

Yeah seems like Fairbanks could be a very good reliever whereas Solak is probably capped at being an average regular at 2B. I know Fairbanks has debuted already but he's basically a prospect. Cool to see a prospect for prospect swap like this I wish teams did it more often.

[Orgfiller]

Solak can't get the ball off the ground. Fairbanks is a monster.

 

Wat, he has a .219 ISO with 17 HR in 350 PAs.

[Spanky99]

Wat, he has a .219 ISO with 17 HR in 350 PAs.

 

I was at a loss there myself, friendo. I like this for the Rangers.

[Orgfiller]

That ISO is like 10th on the Durham Bulls. 50% GB and 25% HR/FB. 111 wRC+.

 

Kinda meh. Swing is not really geared for power. Just think he's dime a dozen nowadays. He's Wendle/Arroyo in my opinion.

 

Two smart teams traded him already, always weary of that.

 

Edit: At least this gives the Jays a nice floor for Ken Giles though.

 

One of those smart teams also traded for him, I never understand this kind of reasoning. The Yankees liked him enough to draft him and the Rays liked him enough to acquire him in a pretty big deal.

 

With that said, if Nick Solak is setting the floor for Giles then yikes.

[Terminator]

Giles isn't warming up with a 2 run lead in the top of the 9th. He hasn't pitched since Montoyo threw him in 3 straight games with his last appearance being July 4 which is ridiculous because he had just come off the injured list a week or so prior. He's probably hurt. Or maybe traded?

[Spanky99]

lol

[Terminator]

 

Either hurt or sick

[Terminator]

 

Lol they think we are stupid. There is no way this was a result of a massage it was because he threw 3 days in a row and the team is trying to cover its ass.

[glory]

 

Lol they think we are stupid. There is no way this was a result of a massage it was because he threw 3 days in a row and the team is trying to cover its ass.

 

I will give them credit for the creativity though. They could have just said nerve inflammation and left it at that, but they went all in. JP Ricciardi would be proud. It ain't lying if they know the truth.

 

I said it in the game thread, I hope we don't go into another trade deadline with veteran trade chips. After what happened last year and now actually having high valued assets that our manager is sabotaging is just too painful to watch.

[Stangstag]

I will give them credit for the creativity though. They could have just said nerve inflammation and left it at that, but they went all in. JP Ricciardi would be proud. It ain't lying if they know the truth.

 

I said it in the game thread, I hope we don't go into another trade deadline with veteran trade chips. After what happened last year and now actually having high valued assets that our manager is sabotaging is just too painful to watch.

 

Its just been extremely bad luck for the Jays unfortunately. Deadline is almost always the best time to make these kinds of trades. Look what the Yanks got for Chapman a couple years back for example.

 

What exactly do you think Giles’ market would have been in the offseason? Probably nothing.

[Terminator]

[Barkerfan23]

Well there it goes. Might as well hold on to him now

 

Dont need another haul of c list prospects like Paulino And Waggswhateverthef***hisnameis

[Terminator]

Ok so the guy has a nicked up elbow, comes back and then throws 3 days in a row, the last of which he didn't look very sharp at all. He then gets a massage and comes back with his elbow nicked up again. The team would like to blame the massage but it's far more likely overuse is the cause.

 

It's unreal that Montoyo allowed him to pitch 3 days in a row (Giles hasn't done that since 2016) and it's unreal that Atkins allowed it to happen.

[glory]

Its just been extremely bad luck for the Jays unfortunately. Deadline is almost always the best time to make these kinds of trades. Look what the Yanks got for Chapman a couple years back for example.

 

What exactly do you think Giles’ market would have been in the offseason? Probably nothing.

 

Definitely some bad luck involved (Osuna DV case being the biggest one), but injury/performance risks are always there. If a team continually trades at the wrong time, there's only so much rope we can give them. After a while it gets old (and frustrating).

 

If it's day to day as it is being reported and he can potentially pitch tomorrow, then at least that's good news. Can't stress enough how important the returns for Giles and Stroman are.

[glory]

Ok so the guy has a nicked up elbow, comes back and then throws 3 days in a row, the last of which he didn't look very sharp at all. He then gets a massage and comes back with his elbow nicked up again. The team would like to blame the massage but it's far more likely overuse is the cause.

 

It's unreal that Montoyo allowed him to pitch 3 days in a row (Giles hasn't done that since 2016) and it's unreal that Atkins allowed it to happen.

 

He pitched an inning in a 10-6 loss, and then an inning in a 7-7 game that was his 3rd game in a row. I don't know how Montoyo even considered this a good idea and got no blow back by anyone on his coaching staff or even from upstairs. That goes beyond incompetence. Bunting excessively during a rebuilding year is just annoying. Stuff like this hurts the org long-term.

[Spanky99]

I will give them credit for the creativity though. They could have just said nerve inflammation and left it at that, but they went all in. JP Ricciardi would be proud. It ain't lying if they know the truth.

 

I said it in the game thread, I hope we don't go into another trade deadline with veteran trade chips. After what happened last year and now actually having high valued assets that our manager is sabotaging is just too painful to watch.

 

Or it's the same injury and they're playing it safe. Cause he won't pass a medical???

[Barkerfan23]

Ok so the guy has a nicked up elbow, comes back and then throws 3 days in a row, the last of which he didn't look very sharp at all. He then gets a massage and comes back with his elbow nicked up again. The team would like to blame the massage but it's far more likely overuse is the cause.

 

It's unreal that Montoyo allowed him to pitch 3 days in a row (Giles hasn't done that since 2016) and it's unreal that Atkins allowed it to happen.

 

The 3 days in a row was extremely egregious

[Bobthe4th]

 

f***, f***, f***. Trade him before he has a MRI! /s

[Spanky99]

lol... @ you people.

[Terminator]

[Spanky99]

Ok so the guy has a nicked up elbow, comes back and then throws 3 days in a row, the last of which he didn't look very sharp at all. He then gets a massage and comes back with his elbow nicked up again. The team would like to blame the massage but it's far more likely overuse is the cause.

 

It's unreal that Montoyo allowed him to pitch 3 days in a row (Giles hasn't done that since 2016) and it's unreal that Atkins allowed it to happen.

 

Gm's phone to the dugout?

[Terminator]

Gm's phone to the dugout?

 

Surely they are in constant communication throughout the season. Vlad is on some sort of "maintenance" routine where he sits every so often and I'm sure that come from above. One could only assume that Atkins would relay similar information regarding hurt players, especially when they are top trade chips. And if Atkins doesn't relay that info to the idiot manager he hired then he's just as stupid. I'm not expecting him to do it during the game though, of course not.

[glory]

Well there it goes. Might as well hold on to him now

 

Dont need another haul of c list prospects like Paulino And Waggswhateverthef***hisnameis

 

Agreed. If Giles is hurt, then hold on to him and trade him in the winter or (knowing Atkins) wait until the trade deadline next year and take this risk all over again. Do not trade him for 50 cents on the dollar. We have leverage here.