Blue Jays Acquire RHP Trent Thornton

[Jimcanuck]

4. Danny Jansen, C Video

 

Drafted: 16th Round, 2013 from West HS (WI)

Age 22 Height 6’2 Weight 225 Bat/Throw R/R

 

Tool Grades (Present/Future)

 

Hit Raw Power Game Power Run Fielding Throw

50/60 50/50 30/45 30/30 45/50 55/55

 

Scouts’ opinions were all over the map during the first few years of Jansen’s career, with some barely regarding him as a prospect, but those have narrowed into the 45 to 55 FV range now. We’re buying that Jansen’s 2017, which included more walks than strikeouts across three levels of the minors, is a sign of real improvement — perhaps due to the new prescription frames he got before the season. He’s a fringe receiver with an above-average arm, which is fine if there’s real offensive contributions, and Jansen is difficult to strike out with plenty of on-base skills. He’s a near-ready everyday catcher, even if the pedigree, path, and skillset aren’t usual.

 

Read somewhere that his basestealers caught% in the minors was well below average. Will look for the link. Of course arm strength just one factor of many.

[L54]

Read somewhere that his basestealers caught% in the minors was well below average. Will look for the link. Of course arm strength just one factor of many.

 

You do realize that's not the same as having a weak arm right?

[Jimcanuck]

"He blocks balls well, but his arm is fringe-average and he could improve his footwork and release to get rid of the ball faster after throwing out just 19 percent of basestealers in 2018.

THE FUTURE: If everything clicks for Jansen, he could have a similar profile to fellow Blue Jays catcher Russell Martin. He’s ready for a larger role in Toronto in 2019."

 

From BA 2018 report.

[Jimcanuck]

You do realize that's not the same as having a weak arm right?

 

Of course. Misspoke. See the BA report.

 

As usual, defensive scouting reports are over the map.

[Jimcanuck]

By the way i dont think the rude insults were warranted or appropriate.

[Dick_Pole]

The only way this deal makes sense is its somehow for some reason a delayed part of the osuna deal

 

The one time I have to agree with Jim, even if it is facetious reasoning. This trade is dumb and poorly timed. It's freaking mid-November. If they REALLY wanted to trade Diaz because they thought he was overvalued, redundant or on the decline, his value was not going to tank in the next three months. Lots of time to extract the best value out of him between now and Spring Training. I doubt the Astros had an hourglass timer where Thornton was off the table once the sand ran out.

 

As far as the 40-man excuse, which has been mostly debunked anyways, the Jays probably could have gotten something greater than Thornton + the worst 40-man guy on the roster/prospect they lost on rule 5 had they waited longer and been more diligent in trading Diaz.

 

This is probably #2 mistake behind the Morales signing. Which actually isn't THAT bad anymore. Which shows overall they have been giving us little to complain about.

[Dick_Pole]

And with Jansen behind the plate. Weak arm

 

Jimbo looking to go all out. First one on the Jansen bandwagon and now he is looking to jump off while it's going 120 on the freeway....

[Dick_Pole]

By the way i dont think the rude insults were warranted or appropriate.

 

If I called you the tercet of Jansen would you take that as a compliment or a rude insult?

[Jimcanuck]

If I called you the tercet of Jansen would you take that as a compliment or a rude insult?

 

I like jansen, he's a valuable asset. Doesnt mean he's untouchable. I have little doubt shatkins will listen on offers.

[saskjayfan]

I like jansen, he's a valuable asset. Doesnt mean he's untouchable. I have little doubt shatkins will listen on offers.

 

There's zero discussion around trading Jansen so you don't have to worry about whether or not Shatkins will listen on offers.

[Jimcanuck]

There's zero discussion around trading Jansen so you don't have to worry about whether or not Shatkins will listen on offers.

 

You work in the Jays FO or something? Fyi i dont worry about things i have no control over.

[Dick_Pole]

You work in the Jays FO or something? Fyi i dont worry about things i have no control over.

 

See: Trump, Donald for evidence to the contrary.

[Jimcanuck]

See: Trump, Donald for evidence to the contrary.

 

No i dont worry about that piece of s***. throughout history there have been tyrants, in the end they always fail.

[Boxcar]

No i dont worry about that piece of s***. throughout history there have been tyrants, in the end they always fail.

 

Not sure which history books you've been reading but tyrants have succeeded quite often. Ever wonder why some African countries are primarily French speaking?

[Brownie19]

And with Jansen behind the plate. Weak arm

 

FFS Jim. The guy doesn't kick his leg over his head when he's throwing out of the stretch.

[Carlos Danger]

In Jim’s defence, and since I was the one who brought up SB. I was doing some research and it appears he was struggling or mediocre until they had him do this old school, leg kick. Apparently, the leg kick is responsible for his success.

 

So, I dont think it is a stretch to ask (I am great at puns🤣) if he can pitch as effectively in the strech. Or, will the need to hold baserunners negate his success factor.

 

I don’t know, I didnt see his splits. I did try looking for his delievery time to plate and came across some Mr. D videos I started watching instead.

 

I am scarred for life with bad experiences from gimmick pitchers. I would never have a knuckleballer on my team again after the Dickey experience. I have seen guys sidearm or submarine who fall off the mound so discombobulated they are never in position to field a ball and are taken advantage of etc.

 

I just hope that he can pitch just as well without the leg kick as with it.

[Spanky99]

The one time I have to agree with Jim, even if it is facetious reasoning. This trade is dumb and poorly timed. It's freaking mid-November. If they REALLY wanted to trade Diaz because they thought he was overvalued, redundant or on the decline, his value was not going to tank in the next three months. Lots of time to extract the best value out of him between now and Spring Training. I doubt the Astros had an hourglass timer where Thornton was off the table once the sand ran out.

 

As far as the 40-man excuse, which has been mostly debunked anyways, the Jays probably could have gotten something greater than Thornton + the worst 40-man guy on the roster/prospect they lost on rule 5 had they waited longer and been more diligent in trading Diaz.

 

This is probably #2 mistake behind the Morales signing. Which actually isn't THAT bad anymore. Which shows overall they have been giving us little to complain about.

 

Just an fyi... teams have to name their 40 man tomorrow, IIRC. Hence why the Stros were shopping Thornton.

[Maico450]

I think a lot of posters are putting a large value on Diaz 2nd half. Yes he had a very good 2nd half, but his 1st half was pathetic. SS defence is barely adequate, Better at 3B which we have covered. Diaz is a reserve infielder that hit well for 3 months. The fact that every team is looking for SP, the fact that the Jays are in dire need of SP, and the fact that Thornton had a decent year in AAA at age 24, could be a mlb SP for the next 6+ years, and could help this team for a long time, makes this deal happen every time.

Good trade.

[Laika]

I think a lot of posters are putting a large value on Diaz 2nd half. Yes he had a very good 2nd half, but his 1st half was pathetic. SS defence is barely adequate, Better at 3B which we have covered. Diaz is a reserve infielder that hit well for 3 months. The fact that every team is looking for SP, the fact that the Jays are in dire need of SP, and the fact that Thornton had a decent year in AAA at age 24, could be a mlb SP for the next 6+ years, and could help this team for a long time, makes this deal happen every time.

Good trade.

 

Diaz has been worth 4.5 fWAR in 320 career games (essentially two seasons). That's a league average SS, not just a "reserve infielder". Sure, on a great team he probably doesn't start every single day.

 

Trent Thornton throws a lot of strikes but he's also given up a lot of runs the last two seasons; he doesn't have electric stuff so it's plausible that he will get demolished by big league hitters.

 

To say that Diaz is a "reserve infielder" and Thornton "could be a [sic] mlb SP for the next 6+ years" is quite an exercise in apologetics.

[Abomination]

I think a lot of posters are putting a large value on Diaz 2nd half. Yes he had a very good 2nd half, but his 1st half was pathetic. SS defence is barely adequate, Better at 3B which we have covered. Diaz is a reserve infielder that hit well for 3 months. The fact that every team is looking for SP, the fact that the Jays are in dire need of SP, and the fact that Thornton had a decent year in AAA at age 24, could be a mlb SP for the next 6+ years, and could help this team for a long time, makes this deal happen every time.

Good trade.

 

I think people basically see Diaz as a 1.5 WAR bench player at a cheap cost, with 4 years of control left. There's a LOT of value in that.

 

I would have liked to see us get a guy more like Tony Kemp maybe, basically a Diaz of the outfield who could also cover 2nd if needed.

[Carlos Danger]

I think people basically see Diaz as a 1.5 WAR bench player at a cheap cost, with 4 years of control left. There's a LOT of value in that.

 

I would have liked to see us get a guy more like Tony Kemp maybe, basically a Diaz of the outfield who could also cover 2nd if needed.

 

He is on his way. First inital C, last name Biggio😉

[Plat]

No we don't, this team isn't going to be any good next year

 

Exactly my thoughts...this team is rebuilding taking a chance on a pitching prospect is always a worth a shot.

[Captain Adama]

Exactly my thoughts...this team is rebuilding taking a chance on a pitching prospect is always a worth a shot.

 

Sure, but's not worth giving up a league average utility infielder with 4 years of control.

 

As nearly every poster in this thread has already stated.

[Key22]

Perhaps with all the high paid professionals and scouts and analytics guys the Jays have on staff, they see something in Thornton that some others have missed. Kind of like signing Smoak to a contract that everyone said was stupid. Or like when they signed Happ and everyone said that was an awful AWFUL signing. They don't all work out but I will give them the benefit of the doubt - I am sure they talked Diaz with every MLB team before taking Thornton.

[Grant77]

Perhaps with all the high paid professionals and scouts and analytics guys the Jays have on staff, they see something in Thornton that some others have missed. Kind of like signing Smoak to a contract that everyone said was stupid. Or like when they signed Happ and everyone said that was an awful AWFUL signing. They don't all work out but I will give them the benefit of the doubt - I am sure they talked Diaz with every MLB team before taking Thornton.

 

I don't recall an overly negative reaction to the Happ signing. I liked that move, but I was admittedly critical of the Smoak extension.

[BTS]

I don't recall an overly negative reaction to the Happ signing. I liked that move, but I was admittedly critical of the Smoak extension.

 

My recollection is that everyone liked the Happ signing. At least if you're talking about the people on this forum.

 

Edit: I was curious, so I looked it up:

 

https://www.bluejaysmessageboard.com/threads/5829-JA-Happ-Signing-Good-Bad?highlight=Happ

 

75% of posters liked the signing. And the no votes were from posters like the dogg and Boxcar.

Edited November 19, 2018 by BTS

[Krylian]

My recollection is that everyone liked the Happ signing. At least if you're talking about the people on this forum.

 

Edit: I was curious, so I looked it up:

 

https://www.bluejaysmessageboard.com/threads/5829-JA-Happ-Signing-Good-Bad?highlight=Happ

 

75% of posters liked the signing.

 

Ya, but Boxy said it was a bad deal and since he speaks for all of us, that's the consensus.

[Orgfiller]

I guess I'm disappointed because I feel like Lackey would have cost the same amount. I don't think "bad" so much as underwhelming.

 

John Lackey:

2016 - 3.1 WAR

2017 - 0.5 WAR

2018 - out of baseball

 

J.A. Happ:

2016 - 3.1 WAR

2017 - 2.8 WAR

2018 - 3.2 WAR

 

Welp

[Laika]

John Lackey:

2016 - 3.1 WAR

2017 - 0.5 WAR

2018 - out of baseball

 

J.A. Happ:

2016 - 3.1 WAR

2017 - 2.8 WAR

2018 - 3.2 WAR

 

Welp

 

Somebody get this guy his own podcast!

[z3r0s]

My recollection is that everyone liked the Happ signing. At least if you're talking about the people on this forum.

 

Edit: I was curious, so I looked it up:

 

https://www.bluejaysmessageboard.com/threads/5829-JA-Happ-Signing-Good-Bad?highlight=Happ

 

75% of posters liked the signing. And the no votes were from posters like the dogg and Boxcar.

 

Went through the thread to see if I made any dumb comment and found this little gem from Cyborg

 

$200 over 10 years would be a no brainer IMO. Heyward is the most "well rounded" player in baseball, and that may lead to better aging. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/who-i...sition-player/

 

that one didn't age gracefully lol. Miss that guy tho, for real