Blue Jays Acquire RHP Trent Thornton

[glory]

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/astros-and-jays-both-win-diaz-thornton-deal/

 

Longenhagen's take on the deal.

[TheHurl]

My recollection is that everyone liked the Happ signing. At least if you're talking about the people on this forum.

 

Edit: I was curious, so I looked it up:

 

https://www.bluejaysmessageboard.com/threads/5829-JA-Happ-Signing-Good-Bad?highlight=Happ

 

75% of posters liked the signing. And the no votes were from posters like the dogg and Boxcar.

 

We should have more polls

[Spanky99]

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/astros-and-jays-both-win-diaz-thornton-deal/

 

Longenhagen's take on the deal.

 

Wow... didn't think he'd talk that highly of him since Thornton wasn't even in the mentionables in Houston's farm or even on THE BOARD listings. He must've really liked what he saw in the AFL.

 

Maybe, I could warm up to this deal. :/

[Orgfiller]

Wow... didn't think he'd talk that highly of him since Thornton wasn't even in the mentionables in Houston's farm or even on THE BOARD listings. He must've really liked what he saw in the AFL.

 

Maybe, I could warm up to this deal. :/

 

It's starting to seem pretty clear that the Blue Jays and other orgs/scouts in attendance were pretty impressed with Thornton's recent showing in the AFL. I'm still a bit sour on this deal but I trust the FO and there must've been something they really liked from watching him the last few weeks to get them to do this deal.

[Spanky99]

It's starting to seem pretty clear that the Blue Jays and other orgs/scouts in attendance were pretty impressed with Thornton's recent showing in the AFL. I'm still a bit sour on this deal but I trust the FO and there must've been something they really liked from watching him the last few weeks to get them to do this deal.

 

Yeah, that came to mind when I posted that tweet about Luhnow's comments the other day, makes a lot of sense.

[Jimcanuck]

75% of posters liked the signing. And the no votes were from posters like the dogg and Boxcar.

 

This is gold!

[Terminator]

I haven't chimed in yet but I hate this deal. The logjam in the infield has been cleared but almost to the point to where we are now counting on Tulo to play a big chunk of the year.

 

I thought the return for Diaz would be higher. Thornton needs to be a really good reliever or a competent #5 to make this deal worth it. That doesn't seem like a tall order but for some no-name 25 year old yet to debut it's probably a tall order for him.

[Boxcar]

You guys can f*** yourselves

[Ray]

We turned JB Woodman into a year of a solid INF, and then turned him into a bottom of the rotation starter. I don't get what's to complain about.

 

I'm a lot more bullish on our rotation depth for 2019. Reid-Foley, Pannone, Thornton, Zuech, Merrywether and Romano.

[Jimcanuck]

We turned JB Woodman into a year of a solid INF, and then turned him into a bottom of the rotation starter. I don't get what's to complain about.

 

I'm a lot more bullish on our rotation depth for 2019. Reid-Foley, Pannone, Thornton, Zuech, Merrywether and Romano.

 

we might see some Rays style pitching innovations with this glut of mid to back of rotation arms

[Boxcar]

We turned JB Woodman into a year of a solid INF, and then turned him into a bottom of the rotation starter. I don't get what's to complain about.

 

I'm a lot more bullish on our rotation depth for 2019. Reid-Foley, Pannone, Thornton, Zuech, Merrywether and Romano.

 

[Brownie19]

I haven't chimed in yet but I hate this deal. The logjam in the infield has been cleared but almost to the point to where we are now counting on Tulo to play a big chunk of the year.

 

I thought the return for Diaz would be higher. Thornton needs to be a really good reliever or a competent #5 to make this deal worth it. That doesn't seem like a tall order but for some no-name 25 year old yet to debut it's probably a tall order for him.

 

I have a feeling we won't have a "#5 Starter" - and in 3-5 years, the true "rotation" will be a thing of the past. I am bullish that the Jays have a plan to utilize Thornton in a way that gets the most value out of his arm. I fully expect us to utilize the Rays blue print and use him (and others) in a non-traditional manner.

[glory]

With Paulino being so injury prone, Thornton's stuff playing up in shorter outings, etc, the Jays should definitely utilize some creativity to get the most out of their arms. Paulino and Thornton both throwing 120-ish innings each and providing good value would be a damn good scenario. Neither one will be a 200 ip workhorse, and both might be too good to be one inning guys, so play around with it. We are not beating the Yankees/Red Sox any time soon by being conventional. Edited November 20, 2018 by glory

[Spanky99]

lol... Boxy wins. Funny s***!

 

Longenhagen>>> Boxbike!

Edited November 20, 2018 by Spanky99

[Terminator]

Eric Longenhagen gives Thornton a lot of praise. Thinks he's a SP who can gives us 120-130 innings of 4.00 FIP. If that's true though, then why did Longenhagen never put him on the Astros Top 20 list? Seems like a pitcher with projections like that should be ranked pretty damn high.

 

Trent Thornton is also likely to make a big league splash in 2019. The 25-year-old righty spent 2018 at Triple-A Fresno and just wrapped up an eye-opening stint in the Arizona Fall League. He has bat-missing big league stuff, sitting 92-95 and touching 96 in my multi-inning looks at him this fall, and sitting comfortably in the 95-96 range when he was asked to air it out for a single inning.

 

Thornton also has elite breaking ball spin rates. His 12-6 curveball spins in excess of 3,000 rpm and his firm, upper-80s slider often approaches that mark, which is rare for a breaking ball that hard. He also has a unique delivery that disorients hitters. His arm action is ugly but, short of a 7-day DL stint this year after he was hit with a comebacker, Thornton hasn’t been hurt as a pro. His usage has been atypical, however. Thornton’s starts were often spaced out by seven or eight days in 2018, and it’s unrealistic to expect him to have that kind of recovery time between turns on a big league pitching staff. If asked to throw every fifth day, his stuff may not be as nasty as it was this year. I have Thornton projected as a 120-130 inning starter with a FIP near 4.00, which puts him in the 1.5 to 2.0 WAR range annually, assuming his stuff holds on a normal schedule. He needs to be added to the Jays 40-man to be protected from the Rule 5 draft. I expect he will be, and that we’ll see him in the Majors next year.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/astros-and-jays-both-win-diaz-thornton-deal/

[Terminator]

So the Jays FO must think one of a few things:

 

1. Tulo will be back

2. Gurriel is capable defensively at SS

3. They like Thornton more than Diaz and will try and pick up another SS this offseason

 

If #2 pans out that would be great for the franchise. The FO could simply be counting on a combo of all 3 occurring next year though.

[BTS]

Eric Longenhagen gives Thornton a lot of praise. Thinks he's a SP who can gives us 120-130 innings of 4.00 FIP. If that's true though, then why did Longenhagen never put him on the Astros Top 20 list? Seems like a pitcher with projections like that should be ranked pretty damn high.

 

 

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/astros-and-jays-both-win-diaz-thornton-deal/

 

Pretty much everything written about Thornton makes me think of Seth Lugo. That wouldn't be a bad thing.

[Bobthe4th]

So the Jays FO must think one of a few things:

 

1. Tulo will be back

2. Gurriel is capable defensively at SS

3. They like Thornton more than Diaz and will try and pick up another SS this offseason

 

If #2 pans out that would be great for the franchise. The FO could simply be counting on a combo of all 3 occurring next year though.

 

The second part of option 3 seems unlikely, we'll probably just use Urena as first up from the minors as SS cover.

 

Perhaps the FO will be aggressive with Bichette too and call him up if (when) Tulo breaks down.

[BTS]

The second part of option 3 seems unlikely, we'll probably just use Urena as first up from the minors as SS cover.

 

Perhaps the FO will be aggressive with Bichette too and call him up if (when) Tulo breaks down.

 

Ugh, Urena really sucks. He's one of 2-3 players on the 40-man that I don't even think deserves his spot.

[tercet]

Ugh, Urena really sucks. He's one of 2-3 players on the 40-man that I don't even think deserves his spot.

 

He sucks, but what is even more criminal is the FO disregard to how bad Gurribabip is. They are giving him so much rope, and want to save face due to Gurribabip's contract.

 

Here is a good article recently on FG rehashing alot of the stuff that I have been saying for months IRT to Gurribabip - https://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/half-season-heroes-lourdes-gurriel-jr/

[Terminator]

He sucks, but what is even more criminal is the FO disregard to how bad Gurribabip is. They are giving him so much rope, and want to save face due to Gurribabip's contract.

 

Here is a good article recently on FG rehashing alot of the stuff that I have been saying for months IRT to Gurribabip - https://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/half-season-heroes-lourdes-gurriel-jr/

 

That article does more to praise him than it does trash him...

[Ray]

He sucks, but what is even more criminal is the FO disregard to how bad Gurribabip is. They are giving him so much rope, and want to save face due to Gurribabip's contract.

 

Here is a good article recently on FG rehashing alot of the stuff that I have been saying for months IRT to Gurribabip - https://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/half-season-heroes-lourdes-gurriel-jr/

 

His contract is hardly worth anything. He'll be paid less than most major league relievers throughout the course of his contract.

 

If they really wanted to get rid of Gurriel and his contract, he could easily be moved.

[Terminator]

The second part of option 3 seems unlikely, we'll probably just use Urena as first up from the minors as SS cover.

 

Perhaps the FO will be aggressive with Bichette too and call him up if (when) Tulo breaks down.

 

Yeah that could be which means they must REALLY believe in #1 (unlikely) or #2 (seems more likely) because Urena SUCKS. Gurriel playing a decent SS would be a great development. I really hate Urena though. He's just Ryan Goins type org depth and nothing more.

[Terminator]

Pretty much everything written about Thornton makes me think of Seth Lugo. That wouldn't be a bad thing.

 

Yeah if he's Seth Lugo the trade is fine. I'm kind of warming up to it as is. Some of your posts on Diaz having reached his ceiling and declining from here on out makes sense as well.

[L54]

They’re really trying to justify that 3M a year!! Crooks I tell ya

[Dr. Dinger]

So the Jays FO must think one of a few things:

 

1. Tulo will be back

2. Gurriel is capable defensively at SS

3. They like Thornton more than Diaz and will try and pick up another SS this offseason

 

If #2 pans out that would be great for the franchise. The FO could simply be counting on a combo of all 3 occurring next year though.

 

You're overthinking it. This FO is banking on Bo Bichette as the franchise shortstop and is fine with stopgap options for 2019.

[Dr. Dinger]

Gurribabip

 

You should stop trying to make this a thing. It's not funny, it hasn't caught on, and it's getting so cringey.

[Terminator]

You're overthinking it. This FO is banking on Bo Bichette as the franchise shortstop and is fine with stopgap options for 2019.

 

Yeah you're right. I'm not looking ahead far enough. What I've said still applies but for 2019 only really.

 

But you raise a good point. 2019 and beyond is likely going to be a better year for us than 2018 will. Thornton fits into our timeframe to compete more than Diaz does.

[Dr. Dinger]

Gurriel is basically a case of throwing s*** against the wall and hoping it sticks.

 

Possible outcomes:

 

1) He is an above average (100+ wRC+) hitter who can play a passable shortstop, he becomes an interesting trade chip or super utility guy.

2) He is a slightly below league average hitter (80-95 wRC+) who can't really play shortstop well, but is still a serviceable backup infielder. This is essentially how we all value him now, and represents a value status quo.

3) He is exposed as a hacker with serious holes in both his offence and defence. Becomes a bench player for us while Bichette transitions into a starter in 2020.

 

I don't really see the harm in rolling with Gurriel at SS in 2019. Either his value improves or he turns out to be exactly what we think he is. In either case, the team isn't tracking to be competitive until 2020 at the earliest, if not 2021.

[Bobthe4th]

Gurriel is basically a case of throwing s*** against the wall and hoping it sticks.

 

Possible outcomes:

 

1) He is an above average (100+ wRC+) hitter who can play a passable shortstop, he becomes an interesting trade chip or super utility guy.

2) He is a slightly below league average hitter (80-95 wRC+) who can't really play shortstop well, but is still a serviceable backup infielder. This is essentially how we all value him now, and represents a value status quo.

3) He is exposed as a hacker with serious holes in both his offence and defence. Becomes a bench player for us while Bichette transitions into a starter in 2020.

 

I don't really see the harm in rolling with Gurriel at SS in 2019. Either his value improves or he turns out to be exactly what we think he is. In either case, the team isn't tracking to be competitive until 2020 at the earliest, if not 2021.

 

True but if Tulo can play 50+ games then Gurriel may end up playing more 2B than SS in 2019. Travis has options and dodgy knees and has a good chance of spending time in the minors if he isn't shipped out entirely.