Osuna traded to the Astros for Giles, Perez, and Paulino

[Spanky99]

Hector Perez and David Paulino. Great haul along with Giles considering all the circumstances. I was told from very early on that the Jays F.O. had decided that Osuna would never put on a Jays uniform again.

 

I can confirm this. Great return by the Shatkins.

[Carlos Danger]

Do you have a doctor in psychology or do you just talk to Ken Giles everyday?

 

You don't need to be a Doctor, or even have strayed at a Holiday Inn Express. Go to Youtube, go to Baseball Reference, read the Houston beat writers, look at the actions of the Houston organization, and the fact they would take a DV problem child in return for him...

[Agk47]

It depends on how you look at it.

 

Are there 9-10 pitchers that long term will prove to be better than Perez in their system right now? No.

 

However there are 9-10 pitchers in the Astros system that the Astros value more because they have more upside or are projected as starters. The Astros view Perez as a reliever and at 22 have a good idea of who he will become.

 

It may turn out that Perez is a solid reliever for years and Osuna blows his arm out. My point is that the prospects the Jays got have limited upside.

 

Ya kind of surprised by the near unanimous love for this trade; I’m almost praying that osuna is about to be banned from playing in Canada — we clearly traded a guy who not 71 days ago had one of the higher trade values in the league for 60 cents on the dollar.

 

A potentially washed up reliever and two middle relief prospects for a guy that could have easily brought in 2 top 100 prospects not but 70 days ago and 70 days from now.

 

Unless the jays know something we don’t, we’re winning like Cincinnati reds fans.

[admin]

Ya kind of surprised by the near unanimous love for this trade; I’m almost praying that osuna is about to be banned from playing in Canada — we clearly traded a guy who not 71 days ago had one of the higher trade values in the league for 60 cents on the dollar.

 

A potentially washed up reliever and two middle relief prospects for a guy that could have easily brought in 2 top 100 prospects not but 70 days ago and 70 days from now.

 

Unless the jays know something we don’t, we’re winning like Cincinnati reds fans.

 

Or have a time machine? How exactly would you like to get that value back from 70 days ago?

[glory]

Ya kind of surprised by the near unanimous love for this trade; I’m almost praying that osuna is about to be banned from playing in Canada — we clearly traded a guy who not 71 days ago had one of the higher trade values in the league for 60 cents on the dollar.

 

A potentially washed up reliever and two middle relief prospects for a guy that could have easily brought in 2 top 100 prospects not but 70 days ago and 70 days from now.

 

Unless the jays know something we don’t, we’re winning like Cincinnati reds fans.

 

Yes this was selling low, and less than he's worth as a player, but if the Jays were forced to move him (i.e. Rogers being Rogers) then this was far more that I was expecting, and probably others as well. The situation was not ideal. Jays were in position of weakness. To get a reliever who could conceivably be as good or better than Osuna this and next year, without the DV baggage (douchebags are easier to move than guys accused of DV), plus two lotto ticket prospects who had depth to the system is pretty solid. If the Jays can revive Giles a bit then this winter or next July he could be traded for prospects as well.

 

Either way, if ROgers didn't want Osuna on the team anymore, then this had to happen. Best of a bad situation.

[BTS]

Ya kind of surprised by the near unanimous love for this trade; I’m almost praying that osuna is about to be banned from playing in Canada — we clearly traded a guy who not 71 days ago had one of the higher trade values in the league for 60 cents on the dollar.

 

A potentially washed up reliever and two middle relief prospects for a guy that could have easily brought in 2 top 100 prospects not but 70 days ago and 70 days from now.

 

Unless the jays know something we don’t, we’re winning like Cincinnati reds fans.

 

I don't think you're giving a fair assessment to either side if this trade. Osuna never had one of the highest trade values in the league, and Paulino and Perez are not middle relief prospects. They both have upside as mid-rotation starters, even if there's a lot of risk, especially in Perez's case. Back end bullpen arm or good #4 starter would not even be remotely surprising outcomes for Paulino as early as 2018. That's not a 'middle relief prospect'.

[King]

Jeff Sullivan ripping the Astros for trading for Osuna https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/astros-trade-for-elite-closer-currently-suspended-for-domestic-violence/

[Agk47]

Or have a time machine? How exactly would you like to get that value back from 70 days ago?

was alluding to how we may be mimicking the incompetent reds management team by selling at his lowest point which will in all likelihood prove to be a micro fraction of time in the players career.

 

Once again Rogers sabatoges the team, yay!

[Deadpool]

Not sure how you reach that conclusion.

 

Ken Giles has proven to be a mental midget in high pressure situations. He lost his closer job in the World Series and continued to melt down against the better teams this season. He is roundly disliked by his teammates and his coaches finally gave up on him after telling his manager to “**** off” and then blew up in the locker room as his teammates rolled their eyes. There is a reason Giles was sent to the minors and a lot of that was performance based.

 

Paulino is another player the Astros gave up on. His stuff isnÂ’t as good without PEDÂ’s, he is 25 years old and is constantly injured. He wasnÂ’t going to make the 40 man by this winter.

 

Hector Perez has #4 starter type upside. He is probably the 10-12th best pitcher in the Astros minors. He was about to be passed up by a bunch of younger pitchers in the Astros really deep pitching pipeline.

 

Unless Perez really improves or Giles all of a sudden figured it out (unlikely) the Astros win this deal handily.

 

Players like Cionel Perez or Martin are far better than Hector Perez.

 

Oh well.

 

[Agk47]

Or have a time machine? How exactly would you like to get that value back from 70 days ago?

 

I don't think you're giving a fair assessment to either side if this trade. Osuna never had one of the highest trade values in the league, and Paulino and Perez are not middle relief prospects. They both have upside as mid-rotation starters, even if there's a lot of risk, especially in Perez's case. Back end bullpen arm or good #4 starter would not even be remotely surprising outcomes for Paulino as early as 2018. That's not a 'middle relief prospect'.

 

Common sense says osunas track record, youth, makeup on the mound and contract under normal circumstances (like 70 days ago and 70 days from now) are incredibly respected and sought after throughout the league.

 

A prospect with the potential to be an 8th inning guy really isn’t that valuable.

 

Not trying to be negative— but this is hardly a home run amazing deal for shatkins, far from it—- this deal reaks of “my problem for yours” with a side order of random dude named Perez. Only Houston is buying low and we are buying high.

 

Granted there is reason for optimism for the jays in this deal; paulino was overrated prior to getting busted but does have legitimate potential. Giles is a renowned power arm who has some pretty serious warts, but is capable of putting up an era of 3.00-ish with 10k per 9. If he rebounds over the next calendar year we can probably net 3 more guys at the back end of some teams top 10 prospect list for him.

 

All in all there is potential and room for optimism here, but this is hardly the slam dunk a lot of people are making it out to be, far from it unless shatkins pulls a couple of rabbits named Perez out of his hat.

[King]

Osuna isn't much better than Giles (if at all), and the Jays get Paulino + Perez out of it, and they also get the DV mess out of the way. I don't see how anyone doesn't see this as a slam dunk win for the Jays.

[P2F]

Hector Perez (last 10, he made five extended non-starts):

 

 

His SwStr% for the season is on the precipice of 15.0.

[King]

I suppose it's not a slam dunk win for the Jays if you think Giles is terrible and Paulino + Perez have "middle relief upside"

[KingKat]

Common sense says osunas track record, youth, makeup on the mound and contract under normal circumstances (like 70 days ago and 70 days from now) are incredibly respected and sought after throughout the league.

 

A prospect with the potential to be an 8th inning guy really isn’t that valuable.

 

Not trying to be negative— but this is hardly a home run amazing deal for shatkins, far from it—- this deal reaks of “my problem for yours” with a side order of random dude named Perez. Only Houston is buying low and we are buying high.

 

Granted there is reason for optimism for the jays in this deal; paulino was overrated prior to getting busted but does have legitimate potential. Giles is a renowned power arm who has some pretty serious warts, but is capable of putting up an era of 3.00-ish with 10k per 9. If he rebounds over the next calendar year we can probably net 3 more guys at the back end of some teams top 10 prospect list for him.

 

All in all there is potential and room for optimism here, but this is hardly the slam dunk a lot of people are making it out to be, far from it unless shatkins pulls a couple of rabbits named Perez out of his hat.

 

Paulino (suspension), Giles (demotion), Perez (only starting to find his control) all look like buy lows on paper. That's what makes this a fairly even trade. It's depressed asset for deppressed assetts but by going this route, the Jays didn't take a bath talent wise and seen to even have come out ahead.

[Abomination]

Between 2015 and 2017, the cumulative WAR leaders among relievers are Jansen, Miller, Chapman, Betances, Osuna, Kimbrel, Giles, Britton, Allen, and Robertson.

 

Those 10 guys reordered via xFIP are Miller, Jansen, Britton, Kimbrel, Chapman, Betances, Giles, Robertson, Allen, Osuna.

 

Basically we got a guy who is effectively an equal to Osuna plus two prospects, in exchange for losing a year of control. I would have preferred to get an elite prospect instead of a closer back, but value wise this was just fine.

[Chappy]

To the casual fan this looks like a fairly poor deal, considering Giles demotion, Paulino’s Suspension, and Perez control issues for a fan favourite in Osuna. The difference between Giles and Osuna are not that much other than age, but who really gives a s*** about that when both still have 2 years of control and neither figure to be a part of the rebuild other than trade currency. We will still net more assets for Giles at some point and Paulino may soon be ready to step into our rotation as a low cost and moderately decent upside SP. Perez let’s all wait and see, but he is an asset and not a bad one at that. This is a very good trade all things considered.

[Krylian]

Osuna isn't much better than Giles (if at all), and the Jays get Paulino + Perez out of it, and they also get the DV mess out of the way. I don't see how anyone doesn't see this as a slam dunk win for the Jays.

 

Osuna is much better than Giles. Be real.

 

What I will agree to is that Giles has the potential to be elite

[King]

Osuna is much better than Giles. Be real.

 

What I will agree to is that Giles has the potential to be elite

Projections have them as near equal moving forwards. Shove it.

[Brownie19]

Wow, Shatkins really has no business running this club if they don't get at least one of Houston's top 5 prospects.

 

Giles is older, more inconsistent, so no, they aren't really the same.

 

Solid trade for the Astros! Nice upgrade and a younger reliever for spare prospects.

 

Just wondering when Giles gets flipped for a team's failed #10+ prospect next year if we will still all say it's a great trade?

 

Kindly spread your AIDs somewhere else sir. Jesus f***.

[Carlos Danger]

Between 2015 and 2017, the cumulative WAR leaders among relievers are Jansen, Miller, Chapman, Betances, Osuna, Kimbrel, Giles, Britton, Allen, and Robertson.

 

Those 10 guys reordered via xFIP are Miller, Jansen, Britton, Kimbrel, Chapman, Betances, Giles, Robertson, Allen, Osuna.

 

Basically we got a guy who is effectively an equal to Osuna plus two prospects, in exchange for losing a year of control. I would have preferred to get an elite prospect instead of a closer back, but value wise this was just fine.

 

The issue is not his regular season stats from last year.. The issue is is high pressure playoff meltdown, that he sucked this year to the point he was in the minors.

He has not pitched well since prior to the playoffs... The fact is, if you are performing you can have all kinds of issues, tell the manager to suck your dick and stay with the team. When you are sucking and you do that, minors you go...or in this case minors then trade.

[L54]

Osuna may be a terrible person and he may get in trouble again. I won’t debate that.

 

The difference between Giles and Osuna is that Osuna isn’t afraid of pitching in the biggest moments against the best competition.

 

He has dominated the AL East and has had an exceptional post season career.

 

Giles on the other hand doesn’t even compete,

 

Your mom doesn't even compete

 

Just lays there like a dead fish

[Carlos Danger]

Kindly spread your AIDs somewhere else sir. Jesus f***.

 

What, no dissenting opinions allowed on this site?

[Agk47]

Or have a time machine? How exactly would you like to get that value back from 70 days ago?

 

Paulino (suspension), Giles (demotion), Perez (only starting to find his control) all look like buy lows on paper. That's what makes this a fairly even trade. It's depressed asset for deppressed assetts but by going this route, the Jays didn't take a bath talent wise and seen to even have come out ahead.

 

That’s a good/fair way of putting it. Personally I’ve never been a big believer in Paulino (not that thats worth much).

 

I believe in terms of market value; osunas warts will quickly disappear while Giles will persist. Dude needs to post a sub 2 era next season for us to get a top 50 prospect for him. Otherwise, his particular brand of crazy will be held against him.

 

Osuna, not so much— he’s young and sexy and will continue to be reknowned as a cream of the crop elite reliever.

 

Unless Giles does something crazy good in a jays uniform; people who can look past a spreadsheet will hold his post season blow ups and locker room antics against him. Still a good trade asset but in an older Joakim Soria kind of way (young joakim soria was the truth).

 

I actually really liked the drury/McKinney package and see this as a trade made with the similar philosophy; we need high floor low ceiling guys to compliment our high ceiling lottery tickets.

 

Mind you, I’m more bullish on drury than most in these parts and more bearish on Paulino, but in a vacuum I suppose they make sense for the team.

 

Either way, not trying to be a contrarian but genuinely surprised by the high praise for this trade.

Edited July 31, 2018 by Agk47

[Orgfiller]

Osuna is much better than Giles. Be real.

 

What I will agree to is that Giles has the potential to be elite

 

Giles already is elite lol. His career ERA/FIP/xFIP is 2.72/2.25/2.82, he's 5th in swinging strike percentage for relievers since 2014, he has filthy stuff.

[Boxcar]

What, no dissenting opinions allowed on this site?

 

If that's not trolling, it's just blind rage with not an ounce of logic. If he wants to actually explain why he thinks the trade was bad, that's different.

[L54]

Shatkins are killing it. A+

[Jonn]

Your mom doesn't even compete

 

Just lays there like a dead fish

 

I needed this laugh. Thank you for this.

[Krylian]

Projections have them as near equal moving forwards. Shove it.

 

And how did those projections say the Jays were going to do this season?

[Jonn]

Its also quite amazing how Giles lost his closer role and also his spot on the team all without blowing a save and doing so with one of the best strikeout to walk rate in the majors.

[King]

And how did those projections say the Jays were going to do this season?

Wow, Just Wow!