Jays Trade Deadline Thread

[glory]

This is a bogus narrative. Atkins isn't going to sell Osuna unless he gets a Top 50 type prospect, whether that happens now or next season. His trade value is not lower now than it will be a year from now, it's higher. Whatever team is looking to buy him wants him for this playoff run plus the additional years of control. His trade value is not affected by this suspension, all that matters is health, effectiveness, and years of control.

 

Dude, look what the Yankees gave up for Chapman and what they got for him months later when he was back on the field. A bunch of s*** versus one of the best prospects in the game.

 

You think teams are going to pay top dollar for a guy DURING a suspension? If anything, it will be lowball city.

 

If a teams gives up pre-suspension level value for him, then it's a no brainer. Move him.

[BTS]

Dude, look what the Yankees gave up for Chapman and what they got for him months later when he was back on the field. A bunch of s*** versus one of the best prospects in the game.

 

You think teams are going to pay top dollar for a guy DURING a suspension? If anything, it will be lowball city.

 

If a teams gives up pre-suspension level value for him, then it's a no brainer. Move him.

 

Nobody knew how long Chapman would be suspended for at the time of the trade. Osuna is ready to jump right into a playoff race.

[Dr. Dinger]

The perfect buyer would be Cleveland. They want controllable elite relievers, they're a contender, they have appropriate prospects (McKenzie plz), and they are obviously well connected to our front office. Houston and Atlanta would also be good fits.

[Dr. Dinger]

You think teams are going to pay top dollar for a guy DURING a suspension? If anything, it will be lowball city.

 

And I'm telling you there is absolutely zero chance that a front office as pragmatic as the Jays will be moving Osuna for a subpar return. This front office will absolutely not be pressured into making a move by public opinion one way or the other, nor will they accept a suboptimal asset for one of their best trade chips at a critical moment in the rebuild.

[Pendleton]

The perfect buyer would be Cleveland. They want controllable elite relievers, they're a contender, they have appropriate prospects (MacKenzie plz), and they are obviously well connected to our front office. Houston and Atlanta would also be good fits.

 

And George Valera please

[Bobthe4th]

And I'm telling you there is absolutely zero chance that a front office as pragmatic as the Jays will be moving Osuna for a subpar return. This front office will absolutely not be pressured into making a move by public opinion one way or the other, nor will they accept a suboptimal asset for one of their best trade chips at a critical moment in the rebuild.

 

You don't know that for certain though - Rogers could insist he be traded now for PR reasons even if the return is perceived as subpar. We don't know enough to make categorical statements. What if the owners are worried that video is going to leak after his court case is over?

 

Glory is right that acquiring teams have more leverage with Osuna's legal situation not yet cleared up. We don't know for certain if that will prevent a trade.

[glory]

Nobody knew how long Chapman would be suspended for at the time of the trade. Osuna is ready to jump right into a playoff race.

 

I don’t remember all the details but I don’t recall there was any danger of Chapman missing the 2016 post season. Plus I believe there was talk that if he was suspended for X amount of days the team that had him would gain a year of control, so there was no downside to trading for him. And he was still traded for garbage.

 

Now, clearly Shatkins is better than the Reds org, so I have more faith in them to do the right thing but I don’t have any trust in Rogers. If they are forcing a trade and teams are lowballing, then it becomes a s***** situation. I hope I’m wrong.

 

But yes, I’d look at Houston and Atlanta for this one. We know AA likes Osuna and is open to moving Gohara. Maybe there’s a fit there.

[Dr. Dinger]

You don't know that for certain though - Rogers could insist he be traded now for PR reasons even if the return is perceived as subpar. We don't know enough to make categorical statements. What if the owners are worried that video is going to leak after his court case is over?

 

Glory is right that acquiring teams have more leverage with Osuna's legal situation not yet cleared up. We don't know for certain if that will prevent a trade.

 

There's no leverage whatsoever for buying teams. Osuna has multiple years of remaining control. Either an acceptable return is offered or it isn't. There's no reason to believe that Rogers would interfere, there's no history of that. Shapiro has total autonomy for baseball operations within the confines of his allotted budget.

[Dr. Dinger]

I don’t remember all the details but I don’t recall there was any danger of Chapman missing the 2016 post season. Plus I believe there was talk that if he was suspended for X amount of days the team that had him would gain a year of control, so there was no downside to trading for him. And he was still traded for garbage.

 

Now, clearly Shatkins is better than the Reds org, so I have more faith in them to do the right thing but I don’t have any trust in Rogers. If they are forcing a trade and teams are lowballing, then it becomes a s***** situation. I hope I’m wrong.

 

But yes, I’d look at Houston and Atlanta for this one. We know AA likes Osuna and is open to moving Gohara. Maybe there’s a fit there.

 

Cincinnati is a dogshit organization and that trade was panned even at the time. The return Cinci got from the Yankees was laughable, as was the return the Yankees got from the Cubs on the opposite end of the spectrum. That aside, Osuna is younger, cheaper, and has significantly more control than Chapman did. We aren't getting Gleyber Torres, but there's no chance we would accept the pile of puke that the Reds got.

[glory]

Cincinnati is a dogshit organization and that trade was panned even at the time. The return Cinci got from the Yankees was laughable, as was the return the Yankees got from the Cubs on the opposite end of the spectrum. That aside, Osuna is younger, cheaper, and has significantly more control than Chapman did. We aren't getting Gleyber Torres, but there's no chance we would accept the pile of puke that the Reds got.

 

Hope you're right but I have a bad feeling about this, and I say that as someone who likes/trusts Shatkins.

[Brownie19]

Osuna should definitely be traded but only when he recoups some of his value. A year from now, when the DV stuff is in the rear view and he's racking up saves again, his value should increase.

 

Do we actually think MLB GM's are this f***ing stupid? As long as you're convinced he isn't going to be serving time in jail for this, I see no reason to change your evaluation of his value. I mean yes - the DV matter brings character issues into play, but do we think a year from now GM's will forget or discount those issues? I mean if he doesn't beat the f*** out of a woman for a full year - do those concerns elaborate to some degree? IMO, the only issue the DV creates is a shallower pool of teams to trade him to. Teams will either shy away from him, or want him. Time shouldn't change that opinion. The only reason he should come at a discount would be because 'most' MLB teams shy away from him.

 

GM's know what Osuna can do. He's a proven commodity at the ML level. A year from now, he'll have less control and more mileage on his arm. By all accounts that should decrease his value.

[Bobthe4th]

There's no leverage whatsoever for buying teams.

 

No that's incorrect until Osuna's legal situation is resolved. The situation will obviously come up in any trade talks and the acquiring team will have to be satisfied it's not going to blow up in their faces - imagine the impact an interview for the woman with a local paper and her sharing lurid details of domestic violence.

 

Osuna has multiple years of remaining control.

 

Correct.

 

Either an acceptable return is offered or it isn't.

 

This statement literally means nothing.

 

There's no reason to believe that Rogers would interfere, there's no history of that. Shapiro has total autonomy for baseball operations within the confines of his allotted budget.

 

You do not know this for certain and it's naive to think Rogers have 0% input in all situations.

 

 

This doesn't mean Osuna is going to be traded for nothing, or for a low ball offer. It maybe that someone offers an amazing return, or he isn't traded at all. My original point is that you're incorrect dismissing any concerns and pretending his legal case has zero impact and can and will be ignored.

[glory]

Do we actually think MLB GM's are this f***ing stupid? As long as you're convinced he isn't going to be serving time in jail for this, I see no reason to change your evaluation of his value. I mean yes - the DV matter brings character issues into play, but do we think a year from now GM's will forget or discount those issues? I mean if he doesn't beat the f*** out of a woman for a full year - do those concerns elaborate to some degree? IMO, the only issue the DV creates is a shallower pool of teams to trade him to. Teams will either shy away from him, or want him. Time shouldn't change that opinion. The only reason he should come at a discount would be because 'most' MLB teams shy away from him.

 

GM's know what Osuna can do. He's a proven commodity at the ML level. A year from now, he'll have less control and more mileage on his arm. By all accounts that should decrease his value.

 

It has nothing to do with "stupid GM's". It's reality. The dude is in the middle of a suspension, a possible trial for a hot button issue in the world today, a possible issue with crossing the border, , etc, etc. The Jays are also owned by a publicly traded company that couldn't give two shits about baseball moves if it potentially hurts their brand. You really think the Jays will be in a position of strength here because of years of control? A year from now, if Osuna's legal issues are taken care of and he's back to pitching like normal, then sure, you lose a year of control but the cloud over him is gone, and he'll still have 2.5 years of control (the Jays gain a year due to this suspension, right?).

 

Again, I hope i'm wrong if the Jays trade him before tomorrow, but this isn't a video game.

[Brownie19]

It has nothing to do with "stupid GM's". It's reality. The dude is in the middle of a suspension, a possible trial for a hot button issue in the world today, a possible issue with crossing the border, , etc, etc. You really think the Jays will be in a position of strength here because of years of control?

 

Again, I hope i'm wrong, but this isn't a video game.

 

This also isn't fantasy baseball where GM's swoop in with low ball offers.

 

The legal matter brings uncertainty to the matter. I suspect no GM is going to try and trade for Osuna until they have a good handle on how the legal side of it is all going to play out. Once that issue is behind you, it's a baseball trade. Osuna racking up more saves in 2019 isn't going to increase his value - by all accounts it will actually decrease his value (less control + more mileage). The only angle I see where it increases his value is if there's some concern with respect to his mental stability through all of this.

[Bobthe4th]

This also isn't fantasy baseball where GM's swoop in with low ball offers.

 

The legal matter brings uncertainty to the matter. I suspect no GM is going to try and trade for Osuna until they have a good handle on how the legal side of it is all going to play out. Once that issue is behind you, it's a baseball trade. Osuna racking up more saves in 2019 isn't going to increase his value - by all accounts it will actually decrease his value (less control + more mileage). The only angle I see where it increases his value is if there's some concern with respect to his mental stability through all of this.

 

Yeah exactly.

[glory]

This also isn't fantasy baseball where GM's swoop in with low ball offers.

 

The legal matter brings uncertainty to the matter. I suspect no GM is going to try and trade for Osuna until they have a good handle on how the legal side of it is all going to play out. Once that issue is behind you, it's a baseball trade. Osuna racking up more saves in 2019 isn't going to increase his value - by all accounts it will actually decrease his value (less control + more mileage). The only angle I see where it increases his value is if there's some concern with respect to his mental stability through all of this.

 

Osuna racking up saves in 2019 would mean that his legal problems are behind him and he's gotten his s*** together. That's instantly going to make him more desirable asset. I'm not saying teams won't trade a lot for him now because he hasn't been racking up saves since his suspension. It's the fact that he's suspended (along with the other stuff I mentioned) that will drag his value down.

 

This isn't a baseball trade until his legal problems are gone.

[ValiantJaysFan]

There's always going to be teams willing to take on guys with character issues. For a long time it was the Blue Jays (that's how we ended up with Lawrie, JP, Stroman, Hillenbrand, etc because JP Ricciardi decided that since free agents and good players "didn't want to play in Canada" he would trade for a bunch of misfits and hope to moneyball his way to relevance). Right now we've got the Orioles who were thinking of drafting or signing a child molester. Bottom line, someone will pay for Osuna. His price has gone down for sure by virtue of not playing all year and his uncertain future but he's still the young and is one of the most dominant closers in baseball. I can definitely see him being moved.

[Brownie19]

Yeah exactly.

 

Can someone tell me the last time a pro athlete when to jail for DV? I'm sure there have been some, but my perception is most of the athletes just carry on. Christ - we have Ray Rice on video beating the piss out of his finance and he didn't do jail time. I mean there's some uncertainty, but I suspect teams and their legal council already have a pretty good idea how the Osuna case is going to play out....thus decreasing the uncertainty.

[Bobthe4th]

Can someone tell me the last time a pro athlete when to jail for DV? I'm sure there have been some, but my perception is most of the athletes just carry on. Christ - we have Ray Rice on video beating the piss out of his finance and he didn't do jail time. I mean there's some uncertainty, but I suspect teams and their legal council already have a pretty good idea how the Osuna case is going to play out....thus decreasing the uncertainty.

 

Yeah true and the Jays and MLB will know much more than we do about what happened. I'm hoping that because MLB have given Osuna a suspension that ends before his legal case is resolved, that means the incident isn't that bad and so any impact is minimal.

 

Realistically any impact is more from a PR side than legal / visa issues, and the danger of video leaking / an interview with the alleged victim etc. Any enquiring teams that are looking to trade for Osuna will talk to the Jays (and MLB?) to ascertain those risks and hopefully be reassured.

[Scorch]

It would definitely be a very bad idea to sell low on Osuna, though we can’t be sure what teams are valuing him at right now. At the very least I’d suspect inquiring teams are trying to use the DV case as leverage to get the price down.

[jerb]

 

Jerry Crasnick‏

Verified account

@jcrasnick

 

The #BlueJays deadline trade conversations are focused on Roberto Osuna, Aaron Loup, Tyler Clippard, John Axford and Curtis Granderson. They're all in play. Josh Donaldson is working out in Dunedin and expected back in August. Deal could be revisited next month.

[Pendleton]

No mention of Solarte

[ValiantJaysFan]

I would be disappointed if Maile isn't shipped out and we dont get some Danny Jansen soon. We can't get rid of Martin that is understandable, but what is the point of having Luke Maile on this team. Yes, he is having a decent season as the backup, and there must be teams that can use a backup catcher upgrade. I am not saying you get anything at all for him, but there isn't much reason to watch for the rest of the year. Danny Jansen would be a good reason to put the game on.

 

Jansen hasn't done anything in MLB yet. There's been plenty of hype around MiLB players before that didn't pan out in MLB. Travis D'Arnaud for example. I wouldn't be too quick to trade Maile yet.

[Brownie19]

Jansen hasn't done anything in MLB yet. There's been plenty of hype around MiLB players before that didn't pan out in MLB. Travis D'Arnaud for example. I wouldn't be too quick to trade Maile yet.

 

[Krylian]

Jansen hasn't done anything in MLB yet. There's been plenty of hype around MiLB players before that didn't pan out in MLB. Travis D'Arnaud for example. I wouldn't be too quick to trade Maile yet.

 

Good one. You had us going for a second there.

[LGBJ29]

If Jansen were to bust it is easy to find another replacement level backup C, that isn't a reason to keep Maile. If you can get something for Maile you do it. However, there is absolutely no need to rush Jansen up here and start his service clock in a season like this one.

[Jonn]

The Osuna stuff sounds like speculation to me. I am sure the Blue Jays would deal him if someone is willing to pay a premium for him but actively shopping him before reestablishing is value doesn't really make any sense to me. Plus he has to come back to the big leagues and perform while his court stuff might not even be settled in the foreseeable future. That's a lot to deal with for a team to acquire him and deal with. I just don't see any scenario where that happens.

 

All those vet relievers and expiring contracts need to go though. Would lovely if someone took Solarte as well. I guess Drury would see some playing time in the OF once Granderson is moved.

[sdyment]

Just want to throw this out there due to so many uses of DV. When you shorten it, you diminish the weigh of what those words mean.

 

DV = domestic VIOLENCE

[Krylian]

Just want to throw this out there due to so many uses of DV. When you shorten it, you diminish the weigh of what those words mean.

 

DV = domestic VIOLENCE

 

I think everyone understands what DV means. It's doesn't diminish anything.

[Terminator]

Just want to throw this out there due to so many uses of DV. When you shorten it, you diminish the weigh of what those words mean.

 

DV = domestic VIOLENCE

 

This post is retarded.