The Jose Bautista Thread

[Jonn]

Morales signing early is handicapping us. But I don't think anyone really expected the market to be this sour on either Edwin or Bautista, so the front office went and got Morales early just in case.

 

That Morales signing is probably going to be very good for us.

[Dr. Dinger]

I bet Bautista has a 3/50 contract weeks ago if hadn't gone public a year ago and tried to rally fan support as a negotiation tactic. Shapiro doesn't seem like the type of guy to let that go. I'm not sure that I believe that the relationship is salvageable.

 

Shapiro strikes me as a pure pragmatist. If he's not signing him, it's based on cold calculation rather than a vendetta.

[L54]

That Morales signing is probably going to be very good for us.

 

It might not blow up in everyone's face, but I doubt it'll be very good.

[Krylian]

He takes a lot of shots at Bautista. I guess a lot of people do though.

 

Bautista brings a lot of the criticism on himself though. People like humility and not rocking the boat. Bats isn't like that. He's arrogant and cocky...and that's fine when you back it up...but as soon as things don't go your way, people will remind you of it...and deservedly so.

[BTS]

Shapiro strikes me as a pure pragmatist. If he's not signing him, it's based on cold calculation rather than a vendetta.

 

I don't necessarily think that Shapiro would close the door, but if Bautista gets the feeling that he's being taken down a few pegs by the big dog, I think he'd sign anywhere but here. Just my impression of Bautista and his pride. Is it coincidence that the only two teams we've heard about Bautista aggressively shopping himself to are the Red Sox and Orioles? Maybe.

[glory]

Morales signing early is handicapping us. But I don't think anyone really expected the market to be this sour on either Edwin or Bautista, so the front office went and got Morales early just in case.

 

Morales is preventing an Edwin signing, but really has no impact on JB.

[Jonn]

It might not blow up in everyone's face, but I doubt it'll be very good.

 

I'm fine with that. 4 years and 80M could have been a disaster for Edwin.

[Ray]

That Morales signing is probably going to be very good for us.

 

I agree. I think Morales will be more than worth his contract. I just think it's handicapping us in terms of getting back a Bautista or Encarnacion.

[Ray]

Morales is preventing an Edwin signing, but really has no impact on JB.

 

Ideally you want Bautista as a full time DH at his age. He's a better hitter than Morales. Now that Morales is signed, we'll have to get clever with him splitting time between the OF, 1B, and DH.

[Jonn]

Bautista brings a lot of the criticism on himself though. People like humility and not rocking the boat. Bats isn't like that. He's arrogant and cocky...and that's fine when you back it up...but as soon as things don't go your way, people will remind you of it...and deservedly so.

 

I think it's excessive. Sure he's cocky and arrogant but that doesn't mean he's not a good guy. He does tremendous work in the Dominican and he's helping kids get through college in 3 countries including Canada. I don't like that he's been painted as a villain. I can't stand the media. I like people who give real answers and speak their mind. I hate those fluff ******** answers.

 

People don't have to like him but FFS he's not a horrible human being. People genuinely hate him for being passionate and telling people how he really feels.

[Dr. Dinger]

if Bautista gets the feeling that he's being taken down a few pegs by the big dog, I think he'd sign anywhere but here.

 

I think he's already tried that and found that he has no suitors. No NL teams want him, the O's and Rangers don't want him, it seems like no one thinks he's an OF any more, and the 1st rd pick tanks his value. He's either going to come back with his tail between his legs or maybe even retire.

[intentional wok]

BREAKING: OF Jose Bautista signs 2-year pact with Yomiuri Giants, leaves burning paper bag at the entrance to Rogers Centre

[Krylian]

BREAKING: OF Jose Bautista signs 2-year pact with Yomiuri Giants, leaves burning paper bag at the entrance to Rogers Centre

 

What's in the paper bag? All the money he left behind by not signing a reasonable extension when he had the chance?

[saskjayfan]

I think he's already tried that and found that he has no suitors. No NL teams want him, the O's and Rangers don't want him, it seems like no one thinks he's an OF any more, and the 1st rd pick tanks his value. He's either going to come back with his tail between his legs or maybe even retire.

 

Jose had injuries this past year that derailed his year. I think he bounces back offensively and defensively. He also had more base running mistakes last year than he probably had in the previous three or four years. He was always a pretty decent base runner. Nothing seemed to go right last year for Jose last year. Jose is working his tail off this off season like he always does. He's a very bright guy and his work is very focused. The idea of him retiring seems ludicrous. If I were the Jays or any team, I would sign him for 2 years and the aav could be as low as 13 to 15 mil for those 2 years.

 

http://www.mensfitness.com/sports/baseball/toronto-blue-jays-home-run-machine-jose-bautistas-offseason-strength-and-diet

[Jonn]

What's in the paper bag? All the money he left behind by not signing a reasonable extension when he had the chance?

 

Do we know a reasonable extension was ever even offered? A big fuss about his demands but never what was actually offered. We know they low balled Edwin but that's all I remember.

[burlingtonbandit]

I think it's excessive. Sure he's cocky and arrogant but that doesn't mean he's not a good guy. He does tremendous work in the Dominican and he's helping kids get through college in 3 countries including Canada. I don't like that he's been painted as a villain. I can't stand the media. I like people who give real answers and speak their mind. I hate those fluff ******** answers.

 

People don't have to like him but FFS he's not a horrible human being. People genuinely hate him for being passionate and telling people how he really feels.

 

I agree with a lot of this in post. He actually wants to make a difference in the Dominican.

 

Also the same people calling out Rogers for being cheap are calling out Bauitsta for telling Rogers they are cheap which is ironic.

[Krylian]

Do we know a reasonable extension was ever even offered? A big fuss about his demands but never what was actually offered. We know they low balled Edwin but that's all I remember.

 

Don't know. But he didn't do himself any favours by that 5/150 being leaked, and all the 'home town discount', and 'there is no negotiation' talk. Pretty much forced everyone's hand...and now he can sit back and enjoy it.

[Molitor]

I'm impressed by Atkins and Shapiro here. If we end up signing JB or Edwin, we're going to get maximum value on the contract. Alex would have shot his load a long time ago.

[polar bear]

Something is going on that we're not being made aware of. They won't give up the pick to sign him for one year, and they're apparently not willing to go multiple years. This is still a guy that projects at 2-3 wins, so something like 3/45 to retain a franchise icon seems fair. I'm thinking that he's either not keen on becoming a full-time 1B, or Mark Shapiro just doesn't like him. Possibly both.

Forget projections,there for the birds.FO obviously knows old turf toe is toast.

[Terminator]

Something is going on that we're not being made aware of. They won't give up the pick to sign him for one year, and they're apparently not willing to go multiple years. This is still a guy that projects at 2-3 wins, so something like 3/45 to retain a franchise icon seems fair. I'm thinking that he's either not keen on becoming a full-time 1B, or Mark Shapiro just doesn't like him. Possibly both.

 

The pick craters Bautista's value more than most players.

 

The pick is worth ~$10 mil so you give him a one year deal and the pick makes him too expensive. He'd want at least the qualifying offer so that'd be roughly 27 million in value given up for one year of Bautista. That's ridiculous.

 

So ideally you need to amortize the pick value over multiple years, probably at least three. Then it's only adding 3.33 mil per year to the deal. That's not that much really. But is giving a 36 year old a 3 year deal smart? Probably not.

 

So what's Shapiro to do? Looking elsewhere is probably the smart move.

[KingKat]

 

So what's Shapiro to do? Looking elsewhere is probably the smart move.

 

It is for now. If the entire market collectively decides to wait out the compensation period then you lose nothing by signing him because you're not getting the pick anyways but it's too early to make that determination.

[Terminator]

It is for now. If the entire market collectively decides to wait out the compensation period then you lose nothing by signing him because you're not getting the pick anyways but it's too early to make that determination.

 

Yeah that could happen if he doesn't drop his demands. I could see some team that unrealistically thinks that they have a chance to compete (Rockies, Marlins, Braves, etc.) jumping in and signing him at some point.

[burlingtonbandit]

The pick craters Bautista's value more than most players.

 

The pick is worth ~$10 mil so you give him a one year deal and the pick makes him too expensive. He'd want at least the qualifying offer so that'd be roughly 27 million in value given up for one year of Bautista. That's ridiculous.

 

So ideally you need to amortize the pick value over multiple years, probably at least three. Then it's only adding 3.33 mil per year to the deal. That's not that much really. But is giving a 36 year old a 3 year deal smart? Probably not.

 

So what's Shapiro to do? Looking elsewhere is probably the smart move.

 

27 Million for a 3 win player isn't ridiculous.

[KingKat]

Yeah that could happen if he doesn't drop his demands. I could see some team that unrealistically thinks that they have a chance to compete (Rockies, Marlins, Braves, etc.) jumping in and signing him at some point.

 

Alternatively, an injury could change the landscape. If a hole opens up for a contender, that could pressure them into a win now move that doesn't look great on paper. We've seen it happen. A lot still has to go wrong for Bautista to get completely squeezed.

[Dr. Dinger]

27 Million for a 3 win player isn't ridiculous.

 

Maybe not, but projecting Bautista for 3 WAR is unwise. No team besides the Jays is going to sign him on a one year deal.

[Terminator]

27 Million for a 3 win player isn't ridiculous.

 

Yeah maybe it isn't. That's a lot of dough though.

[intrigid]

When does the "compensation period" end, and what would it mean for the Jays and for Bautista if they both waited for it to expire?

[Terminator]

When does the "compensation period" end, and what would it mean for the Jays and for Bautista if they both waited for it to expire?

 

I think it's until June or something. Not entirely sure.

[Santoki]

27 Million for a 3 win player isn't ridiculous.

 

What's the projected amount of wins for a team of 0 WAR players that make the minimum? I'm trying to wrap my head around how an extra three wins on top of that baseline is worth $27 million.

[G-Snarls]

When does the "compensation period" end, and what would it mean for the Jays and for Bautista if they both waited for it to expire?

 

June

 

If he wants to sign with the Jays it doesn't matter when he does. That gives us an advantage over every other team.