The Jose Bautista Thread

[Governator]

I really don't think we had any intention of signing either guy. In Bautista's case I really think it's a no-brainer. You'd rather have Bautista for just 1 year right? But then how does it make sense to give up the comp pick for just 1 year of him? It would make more sense to give up the comp pick for 3 years of him but you don't want him for 3 years!

 

Eddie is more complicated because you would give up the comp pick for something like 3/60M.

 

But if the suitors for Jose and Eddie start to become those with protected picks then you have to try to sign them.

 

I think the allure of the comp picks is being understated on this forum. This FO has cried about the farm system since the moment they got here. The comp picks are like adding 2 top 10 org prospects for free.

 

 

Doesn't matter who signs him, their comp pick will be sandwiched after round 1 in the draft regardless of what round the suitor has to give up.

 

Honestly, I'd be all for Jose @ $17MM with 2 team option years of $17MM per with a buy out. As long as he stays productive he'll still make his $51MM over 3 years and I'm sure the Jays would be quite happy having control over him if they aren't guaranteeing him the money. They won't be able to move him because of 10/5 rights but having the option to make it a 1, 2 or 3 deal based on his performance would be nice.

[burlingtonbandit]

Well if Jose wants a 2 year deal why don't we give him that then? Honestly I would prefer the 2 year deal since like some of you said the comp pick value isn't just for 1 year.

 

There has to be something else about the FO relationship that we don't know about.

[Sammy225]

Yep I agree but the industry consensus at the time was that we signed him for a year too long and it had pretty tepid support on this board. Hindsight is 20/20 but at the time it was a little bit puzzling and with hindsight that one looks like a mistake.

 

I do think they went a year to long but i also believe at the end of this contract its not going to look like a huge mistake either. I think he will average 1.5-2WAR per year. I also think that EE or his agent didn't give much thought to their 4 year offer and the jays saw it as he really didn't want to come back considering they were not going any higher. I think it would have been a huge risk to wait on EE and one i don't think many people would take.

[glory]

Probably a combination of a mutual dislike between the FO/Jose, and the FO thinking they could replace Jose's wins for less money and keep a draft pick on top of that. Of course, if no other team signs Bautista, then things become dicey because the pick becomes pointless.

[TholesWeirdEye]

Latest On Market For Jose Bautista

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/12/latest-on-market-for-jose-bautista.html

 

http://abload.de/img/ifepfpi3g471vcvs94.gif

[Grant77]

Hindsight is 20 20. You don't sign him and wait on EE and he gets his 5 year deal and someone comes and signs Morales and your left holding your dick. Not many people thought EE would have a tough time getting a good suitor.

 

The Morales deal is the worst move that Shapiro has made and several people said much at the time. It's not smart to pounce on a second tier option so early in the offseason, even if the deal turns out alright in a bubble.

[Brownie19]

Well if Jose wants a 2 year deal why don't we give him that then? Honestly I would prefer the 2 year deal since like some of you said the comp pick value isn't just for 1 year.

 

There has to be something else about the FO relationship that we don't know about.

 

If the comp pick is valued at $10M, then full market value for Jose is probably 2 years $30M (assuming he could give us 4.5 WAR in 2 years). I'd probably do that....as long as the "other" OF we get is strong defensively (Dyson or Puig please)

[Brownie19]

The Morales deal is the worst move that Shapiro has made and several people said much at the time. It's not smart to pounce on a second tier option so early in the offseason, even if the deal turns out alright in a bubble.

 

I could point out the Smoak extension and completely derail your point.....but I still disagree with your overall premise as it is.

[burlingtonbandit]

The Morales deal is the worst move that Shapiro has made and several people said much at the time. It's not smart to pounce on a second tier option so early in the offseason, even if the deal turns out alright in a bubble.

 

No it isn't. Smoak extension was way more terrible at the time as was the Chavez for Hendriks trade (Which looks even worse now)

[Grant77]

I could point out the Smoak extension and completely derail your point.....but I still disagree with your overall premise as it is.

 

I think that the Morales mistake will cost us more wins than the Smoak extension.

[Brownie19]

I think that the Morales mistake will cost us more wins than the Smoak extension.

 

Can you elaborate on why you think it's a mistake?

[Governator]

Morales was signed to do 1 thing, hit the ball which he should be capable of doing quite well. Smoak was signed because he got hot that one month.

[Frenchsoup]

Morales was signed to do 1 thing, hit the ball which he should be capable of doing quite well. Smoak was signed because he got hot that one month.

 

Jays expect him to play 40-50 games at 1b from what I heard.

[saskjayfan]

If the comp pick is valued at $10M, then full market value for Jose is probably 2 years $30M (assuming he could give us 4.5 WAR in 2 years). I'd probably do that....as long as the "other" OF we get is strong defensively (Dyson or Puig please)

 

I think there's a strong possibility Jose signs with the jays or he doesn't sign until June. I wouldn't be banking on that 10 mil value.

[Spanky99]

I wonder if they regret signing Morales so early at this point.

 

I see it as the other way around... Bautista taking the QO and hope for a healthy 17', and EE had 4/80 on the table, it's their loss.

[Jimcanuck]

Said it before, this FO wants the picks more than the players. There's a reason the FO has invested in an organization geared to player development. A rebuild through the draft and the farm system is underway.

[burlingtonbandit]

Said it before, this FO wants the picks more than the players. There's a reason the FO has invested in an organization geared to player development. A rebuild through the draft and the farm system is underway.

 

Why did they want to sign Fowler and lose a better draft pick? Or Offer EE 80 Million?

[glory]

Said it before, this FO wants the picks more than the players. There's a reason the FO has invested in an organization geared to player development. A rebuild through the draft and the farm system is underway.

 

They offered Edwin 4/80 before free agency even began and were in on Fowler. Both would have cost picks. They may not want to lose a pick for Joey Bats, but they clearly don't mind losing one for the right players. In this case, both the players they were willing to lose one for decided to decline the offers.

[reedjohnsonfan]

They offered Edwin 4/80 before free agency even began and were in on Fowler. Both would have cost picks. They may not want to lose a pick for Joey Bats, but they clearly don't mind losing one for the right players. In this case, both the players they were willing to lose one for decided to decline the offers.

 

As it should be. If they're not signing players like Fowler or Edwin because of the draft pick that is really stupid IMO, and we shouldn't believe that's the case.

[Jimcanuck]

As it should be. If they're not signing players like Fowler or Edwin because of the draft pick that is really stupid IMO, and we shouldn't believe that's the case.

 

I believe its the case. The attempt to sign EE was solid, but Fowler and Bautista, seems to be lukewarm at best. Will not be good among the casuals if Bautista signs somewhere else for 3/$36.

 

The window that existed when a prime EE and JB were delivering $25M seasons for half the price has pretty much closed.

[Spanky99]

I believe its the case. The attempt to sign EE was solid, but Fowler and Bautista, seems to be lukewarm at best. Will not be good among the casuals if Bautista signs somewhere else for 3/$36.

 

The window that existed when a prime EE and JB were delivering $25M seasons for half the price has pretty much closed.

 

You don't say, Jim.

 

Wait... 3/36 for Bats would be a steal?

[Jimcanuck]

You don't say, Jim.

 

Wait... 3/36 for Bats would be a steal?

 

It would seem to be but looks like the market for an aging, injury prone, liability in the field, declining power numbers, SOB, with pick attached is quite limited.

[Spanky99]

It would seem to be but looks like the market for an aging, injury prone, liability in the field, declining power numbers, SOB, with pick attached is quite limited.

 

It does seem this way, but 3/36? lol. He could be worth over 25 million this year alone.

[Jimcanuck]

It does seem this way, but 3/36? lol. He could be worth over 25 million this year alone.

 

Or worth 3 WAR over the 3 years, negative in the last.

 

Its a tough call but the pick really hurts him.... maybe he will get $15M AAV but I can't see more.

[Spanky99]

Or worth 3 WAR over the 3 years, negative in the last.

 

Its a tough call but the pick really hurts him.... maybe he will get $15M AAV but I can't see more.

 

No, on the former... agreed on the latter.

[Jimcanuck]

No, on the former... agreed on the latter.

 

He could be an Ortiz but the bat speed decline and injury history, he's a guy that was dangerous because he could easily catch up to fastballs, forcing pitchers to throw junk off the plate (walktista) or miss it in the zone. The 'ol eye test says he was quite often late on fastballs last year and getting challenged more (and the pitcher winning). Doesn't look good for him IMO

[Spanky99]

He could be an Ortiz but the bat speed decline and injury history, he's a guy that was dangerous because he could easily catch up to fastballs, forcing pitchers to throw junk off the plate (walktista) or miss it in the zone. The 'ol eye test says he was quite often late on fastballs last year and getting challenged more (and the pitcher winning). Doesn't look good for him IMO

 

You should get the ole eyes tested, bruh!

[Jimcanuck]

You should get the ole eyes tested, bruh!

 

true they don't work as well as when Mrs. Cartwright and I fooled around in the school closet

[Spanky99]

true they don't work as well as when Mrs. Cartwright and I fooled around in the school closet

 

lol

[Zaun of the Dead]

cartwright? cartwright?