Alex Anthopoulos Departing

[ElNik2013]

This guy is talking about how the GM job title isn't what it used to be:

 

 

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/alex-anthopoulos-and-title-inflation/

 

 

 

It's certainly true that Jed Hoyer is not the guy you think of when you think of what the Cubs are doing, it's Theo Epstein. Same with Friedman / Zaidi.

 

 

What GM jobs are out there anyway? Anyway...

[ElNik2013]

This guy looks at 5 strategic turning points of AA's tenure:

 

 

http://www.bluebirdbanter.com/2015/10/30/9637240/five-strategic-turning-points-of-alex-anthopoulos-tenure-as-blue-jays

[Boogerloo]

Wouldn't those fans need to have an idea about players on other teams?

 

Nope. All they need to know is who plays for the Jays, and bring their cash and butts to the Dome.

[GeorgiaPeach]

There's also quite a few who are worse off, to be fair.

 

That's fair.

 

But when talking about the best, we may have finished with the best team on paper for 2015.

 

I can't say the same when players elect for free agency in the coming weeks.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Nope. All they need to know is who plays for the Jays, and bring their cash and butts to the Dome.

 

Oh, I thought you were talking about their opinions.

[GD]

Look at Shapiro's face. He's even got the look of a smug sob.

 

Thanks for your input

[Boxcar]

Thats the thing. The AA bashers making it sound like AA was the second coming of Stu Jackson.

 

All these haters were probably jerking off to epicJays run. I know I was.

 

Literally maybe 1 or 2 known idiot posters are saying that. Just because you have an irrational love for AA and a super short memory doesn't mean everyone else is wrong.

[Boxcar]

Nope. All they need to know is who plays for the Jays, and bring their cash and butts to the Dome.

 

So when these idiots try to drive public opinion based on things they know very little about, it's not a big deal? Do you know how many casual dipshits are complaining about the lack of bunting from the Jays this year? It makes basic baseball conversation here unbearable. People who are uneducated deserve to ride the bandwagon all they like and celebrate the good times but really need to shut the f*** up regarding their uninformed opinions on the game.

[Slugger]

So, now that we have many articles and various sources putting in their 2 cents, what's the concensous here?

 

I'm starting to see a bit of a shift to Alex maybe being bit of a cry baby.

[Spanky__99]

Cashman is praised for winning with a huge budget.

 

JPR was mandated to have a s***** farm system and to draft college players by ownership/Godfrey.

 

AA did a good job his first 3 years of building up the farm system and adding undervalued guys like Morrow, Rasmus and Escobar then loses all patience and gives up on the long-term plan and it has nothing to do with ownership/team president...seems biased to me.

 

I've been saying it for years, a lot of this all goes back to ownership/team presidents. I look forward to seeing the vision that Shapiro will lay out, but I remain suspicious with ownership since their first choice was Kenny Williams.

 

I don't believe AA lost all patience, it has PB's fingerprints all over it, as did this past season for both their sakes.

[art_vandelay275]

I don't believe AA lost all patience, it has PB's fingerprints all over it, as did this past season for both their sakes.

 

it seems that it was a discussion between AA and marlins and then he went to PB for permission

 

http://www.thestar.com/sports/baseball/2012/11/20/blue_jays_trade_paul_beeston_to_alex_anthopoulos_go_after_it.html

Edited November 1, 2015 by art_vandelay275
clarity

[Spanky__99]

it seems that it was a discussion between AA and marlins that resulted in the bigger trade initially starting with JJ

 

http://www.thestar.com/sports/baseball/2012/11/20/blue_jays_trade_paul_beeston_to_alex_anthopoulos_go_after_it.html

 

Of course, AA was pining for one player, they came back with the mega offer and PB insisted, he went as far as admitted it with McCown.

[art_vandelay275]

Of course, AA was pining for one player, they came back with the mega offer and PB insisted, he went as far as admitted it with McCown.

 

sorry i didn't say it very clearly in my OP - what i meant is that it seems it was AA's idea to expand the deal only after which he went to PB for permission

 

btw i believe PB should be as much hated as Rogers; he basically treated rogers like a charity collecting a paycheck doing minimal; talk about a cushy job; both AA and PB had it in spades

[SAAviour]

So, now that we have many articles and various sources putting in their 2 cents, what's the concensous here?

 

I'm starting to see a bit of a shift to Alex maybe being bit of a cry baby.

 

I agree, at first I was on AAs side, but now I've completely shifted.

I wish we could just know the truth!

The whole 5 year contract with an opt out after year one sounds legit to me and makes AA look like a bitch for turning it down. He should have given the job a shot for one year, but that's just my uninformed opinion.

[tazsub3]

I agree, at first I was on AAs side, but now I've completely shifted.

I wish we could just know the truth!

The whole 5 year contract with an opt out after year one sounds legit to me and makes AA look like a bitch for turning it down. He should have given the job a shot for one year, but that's just my uninformed opinion.

 

You will go back to aa side after you see key players traded for prospects, and money earned during the run not invested in the team like promised.

[ElNik2013]

I don't believe AA lost all patience, it has PB's fingerprints all over it, as did this past season for both their sakes.

 

I agree. I was just saying that it didn't make sense that he would just change course.

[Jimcanuck]

I wasn't as excited about this year's post season run as, say.... 1985. In 1985 Jays were a young team and all fans knew they would be good for a while. 2015 Jays an old team with a short window of contention. Just not the same.

 

AA should have stayed the course. A starting 5 of Stroman, Syndergaard, Alvarez, Norris, DeSclafani and Osuna, Cecil and Sanchez, Graveman, etc in the bullpen, and pitching to d'Arnaud, I'd be feeling a whole lot better with this team going forward.

 

As it is, we are probably going to end up with at least 2 scrubs in the SP.

[ElNik2013]

I agree, at first I was on AAs side, but now I've completely shifted.

I wish we could just know the truth!

The whole 5 year contract with an opt out after year one sounds legit to me and makes AA look like a bitch for turning it down. He should have given the job a shot for one year, but that's just my uninformed opinion.

 

 

The organization decided it would replace the front office last off season which is why they pursued baseball ops guys like Kenny Williams and Dan Duquette to replace Beeston instead of looking for a guy to just run the business side of things. If I'm the GM in that position, I think I would get the message loud and clear. When the team when on its 2nd half run, the organization had started negotiations with another baseball ops guy in Shapiro, who was said to be looking to get back to into running the everyday baseball ops of a team.

 

Shapiro will be running the Jays like Friedman, Epstein, Dombrowski and a few others who have the title of team president, but are really the ones running the shows for their respective teams and have a GM who's basically acting like an assistant GM.

 

I can see AA not wanting to go back to an assistant GM and with the playoff appearance, I can see why he would decide to move on.

 

It was also reported that the initial offer was for 1 year plus an option.

 

Anyway, it's really hard for me to understand why so many posters want to get into the blaming game or feel the need to take sides.

 

 

What I will take from this is that it's better to be lucky than good because Rogers's first choice was Kenny Williams (another guy who's a team president, but is probably running his team), yet ended up with its 3rd choice, who's clearly the best man for the job, at least out of the 3 that they pursued...lol.

[glory]

Yup, everything JPR did wrong was the fault of the team president/owner...lol.

 

1) no one said that, and 2) You can't compare the two situations, like you wanted to, without factoring the difference in autonomy and structure in general.

 

JP not being able to draft was his own fault. He could have drafted someone else instead of Adams, or Tulo instead of Romero (I don't think Tulo was overslot but I could be wrong), and so on. He just had restrictions to how much he could spend on it, unlike AA.

[Angrioter]

It's easy. Alex hate Shapiro for "Don't trade de farm for rentals"

[ElNik2013]

I wasn't as excited about this year's post season run as, say.... 1985. In 1985 Jays were a young team and all fans knew they would be good for a while. 2015 Jays an old team with a short window of contention. Just not the same.

 

AA should have stayed the course. A starting 5 of Stroman, Syndergaard, Alvarez, Norris, DeSclafani and Osuna, Cecil and Sanchez, Graveman, etc in the bullpen, and pitching to d'Arnaud, I'd be feeling a whole lot better with this team going forward.

 

As it is, we are probably going to end up with at least 2 scrubs in the SP.

 

 

I and many would agree with staying the course. However, that would likely have involved accepting that the team go into 2013 and likely 2014 expected to lose 90 games, maybe more. This would have resulted in lower attendance and tv ratings. Now, as it turned out, they didn't win much in 2013, but you can't say they weren't expected to be contenders and people were excited for the season to start.

 

I've always thought that deciding to change course came from trying to push up the window to coincide with Beeston's retirement. This is not to say I don't hold AA accountable for negotiating the trades, but I just never understood the desperation with which they acted that off season.

 

 

Also, would you really not have made the Donaldson trade?

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

Thought I also read at first they gave a insulting offer of one year !

 

Then a 3 year as optics with team were changing!

 

Then he leaves and we hear of this 5 year Rogers ass kissing deal just trying to Save face!

 

The Truth is out There!!! Go find it cyber nerds!

[ElNik2013]

1) no one said that, and 2) You can't compare the two situations, like you wanted to, without factoring the difference in autonomy and structure in general.

 

JP not being able to draft was his own fault. He could have drafted someone else instead of Adams, or Tulo instead of Romero (I don't think Tulo was overslot but I could be wrong), and so on. He just had restrictions to how much he could spend on it, unlike AA.

 

 

 

You can believe what you want to. It seems to me that to some, whatever good AA did was because he had lots of money to spend. When JP gave away Rios, it was because he was forced to do so while when AA gave away Escobar was because he is dumberer...

 

I really couldn't care less about JPR or AA, I've just noticed a strong dislike/bias against AA for using the resources the f***ing team decided to make available to him whether to restock the minors or to spend on MLB.

 

Money doesn't explain drafting Dalton Pompey, Kevin Pillar, Kendall Graveman, Sean Nolin, Matt Boyd. And let's not forget Marcus Stroman who shouldn't have been drafted by a scout-based organization.

 

Who knows, maybe he was good at presenting his plan to his bosses and convinced them to invest in the minors more than in prior years.

[Ehjays]

You will go back to aa side after you see key players traded for prospects, and money earned during the run not invested in the team like promised.

 

there are no sides, the f***in guy quit on us. Holy s*** man!!

 

Even if Shap wants to strip the team down and AA wants to keep it, he would have helped us by staying and standing up for what he believes in.

But no, he buckled like a little f***in baby and turned down big bucks for that dream job. f*** him.

 

I thought he made great moves at times and questionable moves but I always kept my faith in him. Now, he quits on us....C Ya!!!

[ElNik2013]

there are no sides, the f***in guy quit on us. Holy s*** man!!

 

Even if Shap wants to strip the team down and AA wants to keep it, he would have helped us by staying and standing up for what he believes in.

But no, he buckled like a little f***in baby and turned down big bucks for that dream job. f*** him.

 

I thought he made great moves at times and questionable moves but I always kept my faith in him. Now, he quits on us....C Ya!!!

 

Not about quitting. AA had no contract and the organization had plenty of time to extend him. However, it had decided last off season that it would replace its team president with a guy with that had a track record as a GM which is why they pursued Kenny Williams and Dan Duquette. This ....anyway, I'm tired of correcting stupidity...

[Ehjays]

Not about quitting. AA had no contract and the organization had plenty of time to extend him. However, it had decided last off season that it would replace its team president with a guy with that had a track record as a GM which is why they pursued Kenny Williams and Dan Duquette. This ....anyway, I'm tired of correcting stupidity...

 

I actually thought I read it was a 2 million dollar per season offer he turned down. f*** I wish someone would insult me like that!

[Ehjays]

Not about quitting. AA had no contract and the organization had plenty of time to extend him. However, it had decided last off season that it would replace its team president with a guy with that had a track record as a GM which is why they pursued Kenny Williams and Dan Duquette. This ....anyway, I'm tired of correcting stupidity...

 

So stop typing then!!

[ElNik2013]

I actually thought I read it was a 2 million dollar per season offer he turned down. f*** I wish someone would insult me like that!

 

I didn't say anyone insulted him. Ownership has every right to change its front office whether in structure or however it sees fit and that's what it started to do last off season.

 

There are several organizations that are going with a team president that runs the baseball side of things but hire a GM who really acts like an assistant GM used to. Examples of this are The Dodgers, Cubs, Red Sox with Dan Duquette and a few others.

 

I can understand AA's perspective since he was used to a different structure and wasn't prepared to take what in effect was a demotion. We don't know what went on in the meetings, but you can let someone know you aren't happy with their work without actually saying it. The message was probably understood.

 

Basically, without the Jays making the playoffs, AA would've likely been fired. For AA, he can capitalize on his recent success and try to continue his career elsewhere as the main guy in a front office instead of playing second fiddle to someone else.

 

It's really not that hard to understand.

[leaffie]

there are no sides, the f***in guy quit on us. Holy s*** man!!

 

Even if Shap wants to strip the team down and AA wants to keep it, he would have helped us by staying and standing up for what he believes in.

But no, he buckled like a little f***in baby and turned down big bucks for that dream job. f*** him.

 

I thought he made great moves at times and questionable moves but I always kept my faith in him. Now, he quits on us....C Ya!!!

 

He didn't quit on "US". He quit because he has ethics and obviously Rogers doesn't. They were negotiating through August, with offers that were not what AA felt he deserved. Like how he did it or not, he had the team in a position to win and finally make the playoffs.

 

If Rogers felt that he hadn't done a good job, there should have been no negotiations. But in their usual idiotic manner, they were going to fire him, and then he turned the club around and now Ed Rogers had to try and save face. Just like he had done in the Duquette mess. Even with all that, they offer him a one year deal with an option.

 

So now, if you are in AA's position, you were the boss, and had done exactly what Rogers asked, and they are offering you an assistant GM job, with not even a long term contract. Big deal, you can walk away after a year. So that just makes AA look like some kind of whiny. ungrateful.

 

Sometimes, your own ethics take precedent and in AA's case, I say good for him. Sorry that he is leaving, and I will wait and see, but to all the Shapiro lovers, be careful what you wish for. His record, limited payroll or not, is mediocre. His drafting is unimpressive, and there are certainly enough Indian fans, cheering his departure. He was kicked upstairs because of his lousy on field record according to most reports.

[ElNik2013]

Biggest thing to take from this: Phew, Rogers is dumb, but lucky that their 3rd choice was the best choice...while their #1 guy (Kenny Williams) was the worst one!