Alex Anthopoulos Departing

[glory]

You can believe what you want to. It seems to me that to some, whatever good AA did was because he had lots of money to spend. When JP gave away Rios, it was because he was forced to do so while when AA gave away Escobar was because he is dumberer...

 

I really couldn't care less about JPR or AA, I've just noticed a strong dislike/bias against AA for using the resources the f***ing team decided to make available to him whether to restock the minors or to spend on MLB.

 

Money doesn't explain drafting Dalton Pompey, Kevin Pillar, Kendall Graveman, Sean Nolin, Matt Boyd. And let's not forget Marcus Stroman who shouldn't have been drafted by a scout-based organization.

 

Who knows, maybe he was good at presenting his plan to his bosses and convinced them to invest in the minors more than in prior years.

 

Not sure who you are venting to, but feel better?

 

Godfrey was against going overslot. Beeston wasn't. I don't think that's making excuses as much as it is stating a fact.

 

The Blue Jays, under interim CEO Paul Beeston, intend to become even more aggressive in that regard by employing a new willingness to pay signing bonuses above Major League Baseball recommendations. That was a big no-no under old president Paul Godfrey and the shift in philosophy may help Ricciardi secure more high-end talent.

 

"That's definitely going to be an area we look at differently," said Ricciardi. "The gloves are off."

 

In 2010, the Jays spent nearly $12m on their draft picks, and that's not including any of their international signings. In 2011, it was $10.96m. Two years later, after the CBA changed, AA's MLB payroll jumped to top 10 in baseball.

 

If you think money hasn't influenced his tenure, you're not seeing the facts clearly. He's been given a ton. Way more than JPR was given. It's not even close, actually.

[ElNik2013]

Not sure who you are venting to, but feel better?

 

Godfrey was against going overslot. Beeston wasn't. I don't think that's making excuses as much as it is stating a fact.

 

The Blue Jays, under interim CEO Paul Beeston, intend to become even more aggressive in that regard by employing a new willingness to pay signing bonuses above Major League Baseball recommendations. That was a big no-no under old president Paul Godfrey and the shift in philosophy may help Ricciardi secure more high-end talent.

 

"That's definitely going to be an area we look at differently," said Ricciardi. "The gloves are off."

 

In 2010, the Jays spent nearly $12m on their draft picks, and that's not including any of their international signings. In 2011, it was $10.96m. Two years later, after the CBA changed, AA's MLB payroll jumped to top 10 in baseball.

 

If you think money hasn't influenced his tenure, you're not seeing the facts clearly. He's been given a ton. Way more than JPR was given. It's not even close, actually.

 

 

I never said money hadn't influenced his tenure. But he did do some very good things. We don't know what one or the other would or wouldn't have done with more or less resources to build up the farm system. We do know that AA built the farm system once without draft spending limits and once with draft spending limits.

 

As always, it starts at the very top and that's where people need to focus. In this area, and as much as it pains many of us to believe, gotta give some credit to Beeston for convincing ownership to spend on the minor league system.

 

Let's all just be happy that Rogers is dumb, but lucky and got its 3rd choice for team president instead of its 1st one.

[BTS]

I've seen a few people criticize Ricciardi for letting Rios get claimed by the White Sox. After the claim, Rios put up 7.7 fWAR for about $61M. That's about $7.9M/win from 2009-2014. When the FO believed in 2009 that he wouldn't be worth the remainder of his contract, they were right. It wouldn't have been terrible to keep him, but the contract they walked away from was not a good one.

[ElNik2013]

Godfrey forced JPR to let go of Rios. Just like Beeston told AA to get rid of Escobar. The issue was meddling.

 

 

Anyway, let's celebrate Ed Rogers's luck in not getting Kenny Williams and instead getting Shapiro....phew!

[burlingtonbandit]

Biggest thing to take from this: Phew, Rogers is dumb, but lucky that their 3rd choice was the best choice...while their #1 guy (Kenny Williams) was the worst one!

 

This doesn't seem to get said enough. Their 2nd choice Dan Duquette would of been pretty terrible as well judging by how crappy the Orioles situation looks right now. Lets not give them credit for hiring the right person because of it was up to them the org. would be doomed.

[BTS]

Godfrey forced JPR to let go of Rios. Just like Beeston told AA to get rid of Escobar. The issue was meddling.

 

 

Anyway, let's celebrate Ed Rogers's luck in not getting Kenny Williams and instead getting Shapiro....phew!

 

I pointed it out because there seemed to be some confusion (not just on your end) as to whether or not it made baseball sense to let Rios go. It did. Letting him go was the right choice, because he earned more money than he was worth. That's in contrast to Escobar, who was worth more money than he earned over the course of his contract. I'm not going to guess at how credit/blame should be attributed, but as far as baseball moves go, the Rios decision was correct and the Escobar decision was not.

[ElNik2013]

This doesn't seem to get said enough. Their 2nd choice Dan Duquette would of been pretty terrible as well judging by how crappy the Orioles situation looks right now. Lets not give them credit for hiring the right person because of it was up to them the org. would be doomed.

 

Yup. That's what I take from all of this. It's also dumb to leave Beeston and AA in charge for 1 more year and let them make the moves they made when it was clear they were in a lame duck situation. Pretty reckless.

 

 

Thank god Reindorf loves Williams and Angelos is a maniac.

[burlingtonbandit]

Yup. That's what I take from all of this. It's also dumb to leave Beeston and AA in charge for 1 more year and let them make the moves they made when it was clear they were in a lame duck situation. Pretty reckless.

 

 

Thank god Reindorf loves Williams and Angelos is a maniac.

 

I don't have a problem with it. Its clear Ed Rogers knows nothing about baseball so him vetoing any deal would of been a f***in disaster. Could you imagine the s*** storm if he didn't approve the Donaldson or Tulo deals? Also Rogers loved what AA did this season, he just made the company over $100 Million.

[ElNik2013]

I pointed it out because there seemed to be some confusion (not just on your end) as to whether or not it made baseball sense to let Rios go. It did. Letting him go was the right choice, because he earned more money than he was worth. That's in contrast to Escobar, who was worth more money than he earned over the course of his contract. I'm not going to guess at how credit/blame should be attributed, but as far as baseball moves go, the Rios decision was correct and the Escobar decision was not.

 

I pointed it out because I don't think either move was made for baseball reasons. I think it was also reported that JPR was forced by that tool Godfrey to sign Rios, but I'm not sure. And in AA's case, he not only acquired Escobar on the cheap, but extended him to the friendly contract.

 

I have no reason to favour JPR or AA, I always look at the higher ups.

 

Let's just hope that wacko Ed Rogers stays out of the picture and let's his 3rd choice as president run the show.

[BigCecil]

I wasn't as excited about this year's post season run as, say.... 1985. In 1985 Jays were a young team and all fans knew they would be good for a while. 2015 Jays an old team with a short window of contention. Just not the same.

 

AA should have stayed the course. A starting 5 of Stroman, Syndergaard, Alvarez, Norris, DeSclafani and Osuna, Cecil and Sanchez, Graveman, etc in the bullpen, and pitching to d'Arnaud, I'd be feeling a whole lot better with this team going forward.

 

As it is, we are probably going to end up with at least 2 scrubs in the SP.

 

They will be writing revisionist history on the AA deadline deals for years. So many supported them and enjoyed the run that will turn on it with any fall back in 2016-17.

 

I remember that 85 year well. It was exciting but it was also a different era. Those yrs were also tempered with a hell of a lot of heartbreak as we couldn't get over the top until Alomar clubbed that ball off of Eck. That deal that brought him here was also controversial. Its hard to compare that time with 2015.

[ElNik2013]

I don't have a problem with it. Its clear Ed Rogers knows nothing about baseball so him vetoing any deal would of been a f***in disaster. Could you imagine the s*** storm if he didn't approve the Donaldson or Tulo deals? Also Rogers loved what AA did this season, he just made the company over $100 Million.

 

It's certainly not that I'd rather have Ed Rogers making baseball decisions, it just doesn't seem smart to me to leave people in charge of your company when you have decided to replace them.

 

Maybe it was because of how poorly Rogers handled the search that someone else in the company told him to back off. Who knows really.

[burlingtonbandit]

It's certainly not that I'd rather have Ed Rogers making baseball decisions, it just doesn't seem smart to me to leave people in charge of your company when you have decided to replace them.

 

Maybe it was because of how poorly Rogers handled the search that someone else in the company told him to back off. Who knows really.

 

Well they hired Shapiro to be president. Honestly Ed Rogers and the rest of the board didn't really know how much Shapiro was going to be influencing baseball decisions. I mean AA was offered a contract to be GM so its not like they knew AA wasn't coming back...

[BTS]

It's certainly not that I'd rather have Ed Rogers making baseball decisions, it just doesn't seem smart to me to leave people in charge of your company when you have decided to replace them.

 

Maybe it was because of how poorly Rogers handled the search that someone else in the company told him to back off. Who knows really.

 

The parallel you drew between the Rios and Escobar situations made it sound like you thought the Rios move was also a loss in value, and that it wasn't fair to criticize AA for the Escobar move but not Ricciardi for the Rios move.

[ElNik2013]

Well they hired Shapiro to be president. Honestly Ed Rogers and the rest of the board didn't really know how much Shapiro was going to be influencing baseball decisions. I mean AA was offered a contract to be GM so its not like they knew AA wasn't coming back...

 

 

Do you really think they couldn't find someone better-suited to run the business side of things of the Toronto Blue Jays than Kenny Williams, Dan Duquette and Mark Shapiro?

 

All 3 guys were former GM's so baseball ops is their background. They were clearly looking for this type of president sort of like the Dodgers, Cubs among others, have done.

 

Why wasn't AA offered a contract after last season? I think the answer is clear, they wanted to change the F/O. Not that there's anything wrong with this, I'm just saying let's count our lucky stars they didn't succeed in getting Kenny Williams.

[ElNik2013]

The parallel you drew between the Rios and Escobar situations made it sound like you thought the Rios move was also a loss in value, and that it wasn't fair to criticize AA for the Escobar move but not Ricciardi for the Rios move.

 

 

 

I see what you mean. I meant that both were made by Godfrey and Beeston for PR reasons and that neither should be viewed as a baseball move. I just think those 2 had major influence on how the team was run over the last 15 or so years so I cut both GMs major slack on a lot of things.

[burlingtonbandit]

Do you really think they couldn't find someone better-suited to run the business side of things of the Toronto Blue Jays than Kenny Williams, Dan Duquette and Mark Shapiro?

 

All 3 guys were former GM's so baseball ops is their background. They were clearly looking for this type of president sort of like the Dodgers, Cubs among others, have done.

 

Why wasn't AA offered a contract after last season? I think the answer is clear, they wanted to change the F/O. Not that there's anything wrong with this, I'm just saying let's count our lucky stars they didn't succeed in getting Kenny Williams.

 

I'd say there is a difference between wanting the president to have baseball experience vs wanting to overhaul the entire FO. But going into this season I would agree they had the view if AA didn't perform he was going to be fired. I just don't have a problem with them letting AA make the traded he did even if they knew he might not be back.

 

I would think Rogers would gladly take the tradeoff of the profits earned this year if they knew the team wasn't going to be as good in a 3 years down the road.

[fireballW]

We keep hearing Shapiro wanted to replenish the upper minors. Might there have been a clash on Shapiro wanting them to trade Bautista and EE.

[Stangstag]

We keep hearing Shapiro wanted to replenish the upper minors. Might there have been a clash on Shapiro wanting them to trade Bautista and EE.

 

Its a strong possibility

[GreekFatAss]

We keep hearing Shapiro wanted to replenish the upper minors. Might there have been a clash on Shapiro wanting them to trade Bautista and EE.

 

I sure hope so. It would be very prudent for the franchise to turn declining assets to significant future value pieces. Then they could go out and sign a bunch of free agents to short term deals to offset the loss of them.

[burlingtonbandit]

I sure hope so. It would be very prudent for the franchise to turn declining assets to significant future value pieces. Then they could go out and sign a bunch of free agents to short term deals to offset the loss of them.

 

Not with a $140 Million they can't.

[Stangstag]

Not with a $140 Million they can't.

 

Umm... Yes they can. We have 108 million committed for next year. If we trade one of Edwin/Jose that brings it down to around 95 million.

[GD]

Umm... Yes they can. We have 108 million committed for next year. If we trade one of Edwin/Jose that brings it down to around 95 million.

 

Nontendering Smoak, Revere, Thole, Saunders also does that

[burlingtonbandit]

Umm... Yes they can. We have 108 million committed for next year. If we trade one of Edwin/Jose that brings it down to around 95 million.

 

And sign a bunch of Free Agents to replace their production as well as find 2 SP all for $140? That would be very difficult...

[Ehjays]

Nontendering Smoak, Revere, Thole, Saunders also does that

 

Get rid of Thole,Saunders and Izturus (Thanks for him AA!!, 1 million buyout)for sure, .

[Stangstag]

The majority of "fans" in this city are actually a f***ing joke.

 

 

Reading through this gave me cancer

[dineke]

The majority of "fans" in this city are actually a f***ing joke.

 

 

Reading through this gave me cancer

 

That subreddit is cancer.

[Stangstag]

That subreddit is cancer.

 

It was not nearly that bad 4 months ago. It is actually f***ing terrible now. And the sad part is that is how the majority of fans feel and think about AA's departure. You can even see some people on this forum that are furious at Shapiro for nothing.

[dineke]

It was not nearly that bad 4 months ago. It is actually f***ing terrible now. And the sad part is that is how the majority of fans feel and think about AA's departure. You can even see some people on this forum that are furious at Shapiro for nothing.

 

It's just a giant pro AA, anti rogers/shapiro circlejerk, and the fact that any posts with a differing opinion gets buried into the abyss makes it worse.

[burlingtonbandit]

Nothing is as bad as the Sportsnet.ca Comments. Once read them and immediately had to drink 2 beers because of how awful they were.

[burlingtonbandit]

Noticed in the Toronto Sun it was reported that the reason no players have spoke publicly about AA's departure is because Rogers told them not to. This is the first time I heard about this. Rogers was probably afraid of more PR backlash if players tweeted out their support of AA.