Alex Anthopoulos Departing

[burlingtonbandit]

I'm tired of hearing about the "first time in 22 years!" That's irrelevant. The only thing that's relevant is what happened within Alex's 6 years as GM.

 

Well building the best team in baseball has to be relevant, no?

[Jimcanuck]

The success of a GM is measured by the health of the organization - and the Jays are not in a particularly good spot. With a lack of cost controlled youth, I see very lean years post 2016.

[burlingtonbandit]

Compare the payroll from this year to the last 20 years. Make no mistake, THAT is the reason AA was able to build a great team.

 

Payroll hasn't been much different. Inflation make the number look bigger but in terms on % of money in baseball I don't think there's a big difference.

[fireballW]

Using WS titles as the barometer for success of a GM is stupid. Teams don't operate on a level playing field, and the playoffs are a crapshoot. Whoever said that is probably very dumn.

 

Look at Shapiro's face. He's even got the look of a smug sob. AA was always known for being open-minded and looking everywhere for ideas. It was probably beyond that to the point that Shapiro probably acted like most of his thinking was invalid. I wouldn't want to work for a boss that I thought wouldn't appreciate my work either. He has enough money banked that he has the freedom to pick and choose his work environment. Good for him really! Hopefully Shapiro really brings his A game early.

[Boogerloo]

Compare the payroll from this year to the last 20 years. Make no mistake, THAT is the reason AA was able to build a great team.

 

You are right payroll is different. But he

still had to get the players. He still needed to develop the farm so he could get those players.

[ElNik2013]

Compare the payroll from this year to the last 20 years. Make no mistake, THAT is the reason AA was able to build a great team.

 

 

Would Theo Epstein have built the same team in Boston without the payroll he had?

[Jimcanuck]

Well building the best team in baseball has to be relevant, no?

 

It's not the best team, not even close. Astros, Cubs, Mets are superior - they will be contenders for several years. Jays will be contenders in 2016, and does not look good thereafter.

[burlingtonbandit]

It's not the best team, not even close. Astros, Cubs, Mets are superior - they will be contenders for several years. Jays will be contenders in 2016, and does not look good thereafter.

 

The Blue Jays this year were the best team in MLB talent wise.

[Boogerloo]

It's not the best team, not even close. Astros, Cubs, Mets are superior - they will be contenders for several years. Jays will be contenders in 2016, and does not look good thereafter.

 

How can we be not good in 2017? Is it pre determined? Shiieeettt it dint look good coming into 2014.

[BTS]

22 years is relevant. Not just for the fans but for Rogers' coffers. AA 6 years was way better that any post 93 GM. The team was 2 games away from the WS. Think about that..

 

The commitment from Rogers was much, much stronger during AA's tenure than in previous tenures. For example, JP Ricciardi had one team in 8 years in the top half of MLB in payroll (13th). AA has had three consecutive years of top-10 payroll. The difference between 9 and 15 this year is about 25M$. And it goes beyond that. JPR didn't have the luxury of going overslot in the draft and signing international free agents. AA has had that luxury, and used those assets to trade for major league help.

 

Give JPR the support AA has received, and you most likely see at least one playoff berth. Force AA to operate under the constraints of previous regimes and he's fired this week after finishing around 0.500 again.

[ElNik2013]

Payroll hasn't been much different. Inflation make the number look bigger but in terms on % of money in baseball I don't think there's a big difference.

 

Could you post actual numbers or would you rather not bore us with them? I'd definitely like to see someone post them.

[art_vandelay275]

The thing I don't get is why AA would walk when his contract had a 1 year opt-out clause. I get that no one can force him to sign, but this was his team and maybe he could have learned a thing or two from Shapiro. Worse case he could have taken the high road after giving it a shot and then saying we're just not a good fit.

 

I tend to be with you wishing Alex would have stayed, a lot of it for his professional development. If he is really the gun-slinger/frenetic guy and shapiro is the intellectual/process driven guy, it would have been an awesome combination. Not to mention what we as the fanbase as well as the franchise have put up with as AA "hits his stride" in these 6 years - I would have liked to recoup some of that...

 

No small thing too is the fact that he is a local boy - I am usually not that patriotic but living all these years in the US and me getting older has done that to me....

[Jimcanuck]

The Blue Jays this year were the best team in MLB talent wise.

 

Yes, and at a huge cost in future returns. Depends how you define best. Astros could have moved Correa and Springer for a short window of WS contention, but making them a weaker team in the process.

[fireballW]

The success of a GM is measured by the health of the organization - and the Jays are not in a particularly good spot. With a lack of cost controlled youth, I see very lean years post 2016.

 

Lack of cost controlled youth? They have Pillar, Pompey, Travis and I would almost argue Donaldson, as he is only an arb guy, just a real good one. They have young guys ready to step into most of their rotation spots if you believe Osuna and Sanchez can be starters, and I do. With the rejuvenated fanbase and no crippling contracts ( you can even argue there is not a single bad contract on this team right now) I don't see any big problems. I feel like you are already acting as if the Jays have signed EE and Bautista to 7 year, 20 million dollar extensions or something.

[ElNik2013]

At least Rogers got lucky and hired Shapiro instead of Kenny Williams.

[BTS]

Payroll hasn't been much different. Inflation make the number look bigger but in terms on % of money in baseball I don't think there's a big difference.

 

wat

[Jimcanuck]

Lack of cost controlled youth? They have Pillar, Pompey, Travis and I would almost argue Donaldson, as he is only an arb guy, just a real good one. They have young guys ready to step into most of their rotation spots if you believe Osuna and Sanchez can be starters, and I do. With the rejuvenated fanbase and no crippling contracts ( you can even argue there is not a single bad contract on this team right now) I don't see any big problems. I feel like you are already acting as if the Jays have signed EE and Bautista to 7 year, 20 million dollar extensions or something.

 

That's not enough youth.... and the farm is pretty bare. The Jays will be good in 2016, in 2017 one of EE or Bautista will be back (perhaps neither, we will see), and in 2017 all of the veterans carrying the team will be 2 years older. Will Martin be as good in 2017? Will Tulo? EE? Bautista? They will all be worse.

[art_vandelay275]

Payroll hasn't been much different. Inflation make the number look bigger but in terms on % of money in baseball I don't think there's a big difference.

 

u must mean only '13 and after...

[fireballW]

The commitment from Rogers was much, much stronger during AA's tenure than in previous tenures. For example, JP Ricciardi had one team in 8 years in the top half of MLB in payroll (13th). AA has had three consecutive years of top-10 payroll. The difference between 9 and 15 this year is about 25M$. And it goes beyond that. JPR didn't have the luxury of going overslot in the draft and signing international free agents. AA has had that luxury, and used those assets to trade for major league help.

 

Give JPR the support AA has received, and you most likely see at least one playoff berth. Force AA to operate under the constraints of previous regimes and he's fired this week after finishing around 0.500 again.

 

No kidding, maybe it had to do with them actually selling the game and at least having fun players to watch. Anthopoulos from the beginning said he believed in getting elite talent, not paying a lot for mediocre guys. JP had guys like Ship sinking Shea as our cleanup hitter. I'd listen to JP talk and he seems like an arrogant dork, I'd listen to AA talk and even though he never said anything useful the passion oozed through his veins.

 

TV numbers started spiking before the crowds came in, but either way of course AA got more money, he sold the team way better. That's actually part of the job believe it or not. It is like you don't even realize what you are saying should be an argument for him and not against him.

[Boogerloo]

The commitment from Rogers was much, much stronger during AA's tenure than in previous tenures. For example, JP Ricciardi had one team in 8 years in the top half of MLB in payroll (13th). AA has had three consecutive years of top-10 payroll. The difference between 9 and 15 this year is about 25M$. And it goes beyond that. JPR didn't have the luxury of going overslot in the draft and signing international free agents. AA has had that luxury, and used those assets to trade for major league help.

 

Give JPR the support AA has received, and you most likely see at least one playoff berth. Force AA to operate under the constraints of previous regimes and he's fired this week after finishing around 0.500 again.

 

I agree with you that the prior GMs were not playing with a full deck, but those were the times. JPR was also in during the Yankees beasting.

 

AA still needed to capitalize with his opportunities to get the team in the playoffs. And for the most part he pulled it off.

[Boogerloo]

That's not enough youth.... and the farm is pretty bare. The Jays will be good in 2016, in 2017 one of EE or Bautista will be back (perhaps neither, we will see), and in 2017 all of the veterans carrying the team will be 2 years older. Will Martin be as good in 2017? Will Tulo? EE? Bautista? They will all be worse.

 

I remember from the old board, dint our farm suck before AA came in?

[ElNik2013]

That's not enough youth.... and the farm is pretty bare. The Jays will be good in 2016, in 2017 one of EE or Bautista will be back (perhaps neither, we will see), and in 2017 all of the veterans carrying the team will be 2 years older. Will Martin be as good in 2017? Will Tulo? EE? Bautista? They will all be worse.

 

 

 

And a year ago, the team was looking even worse. Team can make trades to improve itself and/or sign FA instead of trading prospects to acquire MLB talent which many thingk was AA's preference. Time to draft some more Nolins, Gravemans and Boyds, but keep them this time and sign FA instead.

[fireballW]

That's not enough youth.... and the farm is pretty bare. The Jays will be good in 2016, in 2017 one of EE or Bautista will be back (perhaps neither, we will see), and in 2017 all of the veterans carrying the team will be 2 years older. Will Martin be as good in 2017? Will Tulo? EE? Bautista? They will all be worse.

 

It is not enough? You are looking 2 years away and they already have just shy of what could be 50% of their team locked up and it isn't enough? Almost guaranteed at least another guy pop up between now and then. They have over half their outfield as well as two very solid infielders locked up in Donaldson and Travis. They have a young pitching staff and the only real players they need to replace for years are at positions like 1B and corner outfield. If Travis is anything even close to what he showed this season then I don't see how this team isn't fine for much longer than just next year.

[burlingtonbandit]

Could you post actual numbers or would you rather not bore us with them? I'd definitely like to see someone post them.

 

Blue Jays 2008 payroll- 97.7 Million

 

Blue Jays 2015 Payroll-122.5 Million

 

Can anyone find average MLB team payroll by year? I would think the % of average payroll from 2008 to 2015 isn't much different for the Blue Jays

[ElNik2013]

Give JPR the support Epstein had in Boston and he would've won much more than him.

[fireballW]

And a year ago, the team was looking even worse. Team can make trades to improve itself and/or sign FA instead of trading prospects to acquire MLB talent which many thingk was AA's preference. Time to draft some more Nolins, Gravemans and Boyds, but keep them this time and sign FA instead.

 

AA was pretty much a master of getting people to hype up his prospects. It's not much point arguing though. There will always be guys more concerned with our minor leagues than major leagues. If we traded EE and Bautista right now for a bunch of exciting prospects lots of guys would be pumped I'm sure. Sure it works logically, but so does having another year with three 35+ HR hitters.

[Jimcanuck]

I remember from the old board, dint our farm suck before AA came in?

 

What's your point?

[BTS]

No kidding, maybe it had to do with them actually selling the game and at least having fun players to watch. Anthopoulos from the beginning said he believed in getting elite talent, not paying a lot for mediocre guys. JP had guys like Ship sinking Shea as our cleanup hitter. I'd listen to JP talk and he seems like an arrogant dork, I'd listen to AA talk and even though he never said anything useful the passion oozed through his veins.

 

TV numbers started spiking before the crowds came in, but either way of course AA got more money, he sold the team way better. That's actually part of the job believe it or not. It is like you don't even realize what you are saying should be an argument for him and not against him.

 

What a stupid post.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/TOR/attend.shtml

 

Notice how attendance lagged behind even JPR era numbers for the first three years of his tenure. There's every reason to believe that this would have continued if payroll had remained static and he continued to prove himself ineffective under a tight budget. Rogers threw him a lifeline pre-2013: the ability to spend a shitload of money trading cheap talent for old expensive talent. The fans responded.

[Boogerloo]

Give JPR the support Epstein had in Boston and he would've won much more than him.

 

Give AA the payroll of Dodgers and he would have won multiple WS.

[Boogerloo]

What's your point?

Y poi t is we had shotty farm. AA restocked thru draft

Why cant Jays do the same next year or year after?