Jays get Josh Donaldson for Lawrie, Graveman, Nolin and Barreto

[TwistedLogic]

Thats just crazy. Sandoval signs for 95 million and he isn't even a top 3 3rd baseman in the division.

 

In the event that Headley re-signed with the Yankees, there's actually a legitimate case to be made that Pandoval is the worst third baseman in the division.

[canadiansportsjunkie]

Another side note, in regards to the A's...

 

How the f*** do you lose Addison Russell and Josh Donaldson in the same year? Those two moves are the absolute extreme when it comes to trading away talent, on absolutely opposite ends of the spectrum. Russell is a dream acquisition for a team looking towards the future, and Donaldson is a dream acquisition for a team looking to contend for the next several years. If the A's want to contend, why would they give away a top 10 player in the game? And if there was absolutely any possibility of having to rebuild, how do you give up a top 10 prospect? Has any team ever given up such a premium MLB player like Donaldson, and such a premium prospect like Russell in the same season? How awkwardly do things have to f*** up for that to happen?

 

So you commit to contending, you trade away Cespedes and Russell and put all of your chips in, and then at the end of a winning season, you're taking offers on Shark, Kazmir, Moss and Reddick? And then you trade away a superstar in Donaldson (who can help you both now and in the future) because of a slowly spiking price tag, but you sign Butler for 3/30?

 

Just such a strange, strange season for the Athletics.

 

This ^

 

I have nothing to add, you have explained my confusion perfectly.

 

The A's have a proven track record regarding trades but I don't understand their path lately. Butler 3 yr / 30 million..5 million signing bonus?

 

Off-season is still young...

[burlingtonbandit]

 

 

In the event that Headley re-signed with the Yankees, there's actually a legitimate case to be made that Pandoval is the worst third baseman in the division.

 

And the most expensive unless Headley gets a ridiculous offer.

 

Decent chance the division's rank of best to worst 3B will go from cheapest to most expensive if Headley signs.

 

Machado-Pre Arb

Donaldson-5 M

Longoria-11M

Headley-15M

Sandoval-17M

[TwistedLogic]

And the most expensive unless Headley gets a ridiculous offer.

 

Decent chance the division's rank of best to worst 3B will go from cheapest to most expensive if Headley signs.

 

Machado-Pre Arb

Donaldson-5 M

Longoria-11M

Headley-15M

Sandoval-17M

 

Don't see a realistic scenario where Machado outperforms JD and Longo.

[TwistedLogic]

[King]

Anyone else disappointed at how fast the trade news has been getting out for the Jays recently?

 

I remember the Dickey trade, I was refreshing twitter for an entire weekend on the edge for updates. Thrilling stuff. Rasmus trade, Marlins trade, Kratz trade, etc. too

 

First world problems!

[burlingtonbandit]

Don't see a realistic scenario where Machado outperforms JD and Longo.

 

Machado put up 6.3 WAR in 2013 as a 20/21 year old. His defense is a ton of the value but its so good it makes adds up.

[JaysAllMighty]

at least he doesn't do his Hulk Hogan impression after he makes a play. Lawrie was so over the top red bull induced frenzy after making a play. Remember when guys were avoiding Lawrie's high fives in the dugout? love watching Lawrie but Donaldson is a lot more even keel.

 

Lawrie was one of the clowns with no class, actually embarrassing to watch. Hopefully Martin and Donaldson will bring maturity and leadership to the club that we desperately need.

[Smokey]

I'll probably be s*** on for this, but the recent hate for AA is overblown. I don't know what he really had to learn from; AA has always been a good GM. Sure he made some really f***ing stupid moves, like Napoli for Francisco, and Gomes for Rogers, but he's generally been really good at finding value throughout the majority of his tenure. I'm still not ready to fully pin the Marlins and Mets deals on him; there's always been that feeling that those deals were driven largely by Beeston and ownership. Even in the midst of that, he made a great value-conscious move in signing Melky to a cheap two-year deal at a time where he was being completely undervalued by the market for his PED use.

 

The drafting under AA has been thoroughly superb. The scouting has been excellent. He's always done well in extending premium talent to incredibly team-friendly deals. And he does know how to trade. I'm not saying he's infallible, but even the best GM's do dumb s*** from time to time (see: Friedman and 2013 free agency, Dombrowski and the Fister trade, and Beane throughout 2014).

 

There you go diving in the deep end again... You don't know what he has to learn from??? How about constructing a proper roster for once without overvaluing SSS and ignoring the importance of defense and depth?!?! Even if we were to assume that he was "driven" by others to make the Mets and Marlins deals, which is a baseless assumption to say the least, it still doesn't dismiss the egregious mistake of rolling with JPA as your primary catcher and being forced to rely on scrubs like Chien-Ming Wang, Ramon Ortiz and Aaron Laffey. And when that blows up in his face, the following year he preaches about the importance of defense by handing the 2B job to Goins while targeting Navarro as an upgrade at C. So to say that "he's always been a good GM" is quite foolish even for you.

 

That being said, I've been super impressed by what he's accomplished this offseason. The additions of Martin and Donaldson will have a huge impact and will make the lineup extremely tough to pitch against. He still needs to acquire a LF with some pop from the left side and a versatile middle infielder who'll provide some time for Travis to develop and fill in for Reyes when needed. Those things shouldn't be hard to accomplish but Alex has never gone into the opening day without some kind of glaring hole in his roster, so he still has plenty to prove.

[RealAccountant]

Anyone else disappointed at how fast the trade news has been getting out for the Jays recently?

 

I remember the Dickey trade, I was refreshing twitter for an entire weekend on the edge for updates. Thrilling stuff. Rasmus trade, Marlins trade, Kratz trade, etc. too

 

First world problems!

 

Definately, seems like these trades its like the whole deal is out. I missed the Donaldson trade and only discovered it late night. I was like so sad I couldn't participate in the guessing game

[Ehjays]

Definately, seems like these trades its like the whole deal is out. I missed the Donaldson trade and only discovered it late night. I was like so sad I couldn't participate in the guessing game

 

Yeah, I got in too late as well, but would never have guessed that.

[Dick_Pole]

Another side note, in regards to the A's...

 

How the f*** do you lose Addison Russell and Josh Donaldson in the same year? Those two moves are the absolute extreme when it comes to trading away talent, on absolutely opposite ends of the spectrum. Russell is a dream acquisition for a team looking towards the future, and Donaldson is a dream acquisition for a team looking to contend for the next several years. If the A's want to contend, why would they give away a top 10 player in the game? And if there was absolutely any possibility of having to rebuild, how do you give up a top 10 prospect? Has any team ever given up such a premium MLB player like Donaldson, and such a premium prospect like Russell in the same season? How awkwardly do things have to f*** up for that to happen?

 

So you commit to contending, you trade away Cespedes and Russell and put all of your chips in, and then at the end of a winning season, you're taking offers on Shark, Kazmir, Moss and Reddick? And then you trade away a superstar in Donaldson (who can help you both now and in the future) because of a slowly spiking price tag, but you sign Butler for 3/30?

 

Even the Graveman and Nolin part of this trade is weird, because almost nobody in the majors has more rotation depth than the Athletics.

 

Just such a strange, strange season for the A's.

 

The advantages that Billy Beane had since the turn of the century (and Friedman that past several years) are eroding since other teams are catching up to that philosophy, particularly on "team control". When you make your career taking advantage of one really good skill or philosophy but others catch on to that, now you have to rely on the rest of your qualifications to remain ahead of the pack. If those skills are mediocre, you make questionable decisions like what you brought up with Beane or the mess that is the TB Rays post-Friedman.

 

Of course with Beane and Friedman, they also managed to "take the money" just in the nick of time. Another smart move. What they have done in the past year and do going forward may forever tarnish their reputations, but at least they can retire on their yachts should they so choose.

[Orgfiller]

Anyone else disappointed at how fast the trade news has been getting out for the Jays recently?

 

I remember the Dickey trade, I was refreshing twitter for an entire weekend on the edge for updates. Thrilling stuff. Rasmus trade, Marlins trade, Kratz trade, etc. too

 

First world problems!

Rasmus trade was all in one day IIRC, I was also refreshing MLBTR every 5 seconds.

[Candy Maldonado]

Donaldson's first hit. Buck doing the call. I lol'd.

 

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/flashback-donaldsons-dings-jays-for-first-mlb-hit/

[Boxcar]

LMFAO

 

Travis-ER-AR...Adam Lind back to the wall

[Stangstag]

Lol oh Buck

[mitchf]

Anyone else disappointed at how fast the trade news has been getting out for the Jays recently?

 

I remember the Dickey trade, I was refreshing twitter for an entire weekend on the edge for updates. Thrilling stuff. Rasmus trade, Marlins trade, Kratz trade, etc. too

 

First world problems!

Marlins and Rasmus trade happened almost instantly.

[jaysguy44]

Do we now have 4 of the top 20 players in the MLB?

 

I hope you don't think Martin is in the top 20 for MLB players....?

[Stangstag]

This was before Donaldson trade so may have changed slightly but:

 

Top players in baseball by Steamer600+ BP Framing/7000 + Pitcher DRS:

1. Trout 7.7

2. Posey 6.3

3. Tulowitzki 5.8

4. McCutchen 5.7

5. Lucroy 5.7

6. Stanton 5.6

7. Martin 5.4

8. Cabrera 5.3

9. Donaldson 5.2

10. Kershaw 5.1

11. Longoria 5.1

12. Machado 5.1

13. Beltre 5.0

14. Bautista 4.9

15. McCann 4.9

 

Wow thats crazy. I would never have thought Martin to be THAT valuable.

 

McCann looks really out of place on that list BTW. I thought he was trash last year. Is he really that good of a catcher?

[Stangstag]

Also, it looks like we are the only team to have more than 1 player on that list from our team. And we have THREE of them!

[Stangstag]

He's close to Martin level framing, but if he's not catching full time then he's lower.

 

Huh. Didn't expect that from McCann.

[jaysguy44]

This was before Donaldson trade so may have changed slightly but:

 

Top players in baseball by Steamer600+ BP Framing/7000 + Pitcher DRS:

1. Trout 7.7

2. Posey 6.3

3. Tulowitzki 5.8

4. McCutchen 5.7

5. Lucroy 5.7

6. Stanton 5.6

7. Martin 5.4

8. Cabrera 5.3

9. Donaldson 5.2

10. Kershaw 5.1

11. Longoria 5.1

12. Machado 5.1

13. Beltre 5.0

14. Bautista 4.9

15. McCann 4.9

 

Wow. Thanks for proving me wrong. I never would have thought this.

[flafson]

Are they going to introduce JD in Toronto for the media?

[43211234]

Didn't know where to post this but Wilner doesn't even know what a cutter is. He thought it was the same thing as a two-seamer.

 

http://pmd.fan590.com/podcasts/blue_jays_this_week/bjtw_20141129_133604--Blue-Jays-This-Week---November-29---Saturday.mp3

 

At around the 11:25 mark.

 

A minute or two before that he says that Nolin and Graveman were below Tirado and "Foley-Reid" on the starting pitching depth chart.

[Ziggyy108]

LMFAO

 

Travis-ER-AR...Adam Lind back to the wall

 

hahahahh

 

i actually laughed really hard at that video.

 

Buck dunk as always even back in 2010

[Ziggyy108]

Didn't know where to post this but Wilner doesn't even know what a cutter is. He thought it was the same thing as a two-seamer.

 

http://pmd.fan590.com/podcasts/blue_jays_this_week/bjtw_20141129_133604--Blue-Jays-This-Week---November-29---Saturday.mp3

 

At around the 11:25 mark.

 

A minute or two before that he says that Nolin and Graveman were below Tirado and "Foley-Reid" on the starting pitching depth chart.

 

Wilner is the biggest f***ing knob. Thinks he's better than all of us as well.

[King]

Didn't know where to post this but Wilner doesn't even know what a cutter is. He thought it was the same thing as a two-seamer.

 

http://pmd.fan590.com/podcasts/blue_jays_this_week/bjtw_20141129_133604--Blue-Jays-This-Week---November-29---Saturday.mp3

 

At around the 11:25 mark.

 

A minute or two before that he says that Nolin and Graveman were below Tirado and "Foley-Reid" on the starting pitching depth chart.

 

This made me cringe.

[Ziggyy108]

Also, it looks like we are the only team to have more than 1 player on that list from our team. And we have THREE of them!

 

 

If only Edwin wasn't useless in the field we could have 4

[Ziggyy108]

This made me cringe.

 

 

He's the worst. Unlike others I don't waste my time listening to anything he says.

[burlingtonbandit]

Didn't know where to post this but Wilner doesn't even know what a cutter is. He thought it was the same thing as a two-seamer.

 

http://pmd.fan590.com/podcasts/blue_jays_this_week/bjtw_20141129_133604--Blue-Jays-This-Week---November-29---Saturday.mp3

 

At around the 11:25 mark.

 

A minute or two before that he says that Nolin and Graveman were below Tirado and "Foley-Reid" on the starting pitching depth chart.

 

He will always say the trade makes sense for the jays no matter what trying to make it sound like they win. Graveman was below Tirado and reid foley at the time of the draft most likely but now he is ahead of them.

 

Wilner tried to make the Lind for Estrada deal sound good for the Jays.