Blue Jays (Corbin) vs Rays (McClanahan): 5/6/26, 1:10pm

[RA Whiffleball]

2 minutes ago, Olerud363.354 said:

Since they traded Mookie Betts they have won 10 games less than the Jays, 1 less playoff appearance.  Maybe 7 playoff game wins, vs Jays 10. 

Good lord.  

Math - Jays and Red Sox about even since Mookie Betts trade using simple numerics (total wins, playoff appearances, playoff wins).  Jays a bit better

Blue Jays Message Board - Blue Jays pinnacle of winning culture built around super star Vladimir Arraez Jr for 500 million.  Red Sox worse run franchise in baseball. 

 

How many WS have we won compared to them in the last quarter century?

That's what I thought.

 

[Olerud363.354]

9 minutes ago, Laika said:

Accolades from before the World Wars don't count or are irrelevant 

Boston flirted with a winning culture for 15 years or so but they lost the thread around the time they traded Mookie Betts 

Somewhat ballsy, you are like a random Red Sox get the wild card with 84 wins, and Crochet comes back and a bunch of fluky happens and Red Sox get a ring and Franklin Arrias looks awesome and complete Joy and love and greatness in Boston, away from looking silly. 

If Arrias hits more homeruns than Vlad and Red Sox win world series or deep playoff run you will be very sad and lose a lot of cred.  Risky statement.  

[Olerud363.354]

Blue Jays message board franchise rankings for this decade

1.  LA Dodgers - give them credit.  3 rings in the 2020s

2. Toronto Blue Jays - Second for Ohtani, Second in the World Series and Second in our franchise Rankings.

...

11. NY Yankees - Solid team every year.

...

29. Colorado Rockies - Can PD turn it around?

30 Boston Red Sox - worst run franchise in history of baseball.  Trading Babe Ruth now second worst sports trade in history after Betts trade. 

[jmomcc]

16 hours ago, JaysFan99 said:

What happens if they repeat 2024 and finish in last place with a top 5 payroll?  Will Ed Rogers back off the amount they're willing to invest or will heads roll?

I'd say they'd cut whatever salary they can at the deadline to get under the tax, and then reload next year. 

[Laika]

9 minutes ago, Olerud363.354 said:

Since they traded Mookie Betts they have won 10 games less than the Jays, 1 less playoff appearance.  Maybe 7 playoff game wins, vs Jays 10. 

Good lord.  

Math - Jays and Red Sox about even since Mookie Betts trade using simple numerics (total wins, playoff appearances, playoff wins).  Jays a bit better

Blue Jays Message Board - Blue Jays pinnacle of winning culture built around super star Vladimir Arraez Jr for 500 million.  Red Sox worse run franchise in baseball. 

 

I would suggest that you follow the thread here and see who was initially comparing them.

"Since 2015, the club has been heading in the right direction, but still lacks that baseball heritage, that winning culture, that je ne sais quoi that clubs like the Yanks, Cards, Red Sox, and Dodgers all have. Last season was a massive step, and I believe that Ed Rogers is in it to win it, but we are still not quite there. "

It seems like you have just proven the point that the modern Red Sox are AT BEST no better than Toronto when it comes to "winning culture" superlative ******** 

[jmomcc]

6 minutes ago, Olerud363.354 said:

Blue Jays message board franchise rankings for this decade

1.  LA Dodgers - give them credit.  3 rings in the 2020s

2. Toronto Blue Jays - Second for Ohtani, Second in the World Series and Second in our franchise Rankings.

...

11. NY Yankees - Solid team every year.

...

29. Colorado Rockies - Can PD turn it around?

30 Boston Red Sox - worst run franchise in history of baseball.  Trading Babe Ruth now second worst sports trade in history after Betts trade. 

The fact is that the playoffs are luck in a lot of ways. Even Boston obviously believe that because they keep firing people who won world series. 

If i'm factoring in everything for the last decade its some combo of la dodgers, yankees, brewers, rays (factoring in difficulty), astros, braves. Probably forgetting a few. 
 

This front office has been given i'd say an abnormally long time, but i'd say they've been better the last couple of years than they were at the start. Maybe more teams should give more rope. I thought the red sox were nuts to fire bloom. And cora. 

[Governator]

1 hour ago, Brownie19 said:

The Cubs went 108 years between World Series wins and the Red Sox went 86 years.  So you're correct, evidence suggests winning isn't a major requirement for heritage.  

We could just point to the Leafs for that.

[Olerud363.354]

7 minutes ago, Laika said:

It seems like you have just proven the point that the modern Red Sox are AT BEST no better than Toronto when it comes to "winning culture" superlative ******** 

On a 5 year time scale Jays are ahead just a bit...

Since 2015?   Probably about even... though I guess a 108 win season with a ring puts the Red Sox ahead.

Since 2000?  Red Sox way ahead.

Since 1977 (birth of BJs) - Red Sox a bit ahead.  Close.

If Red Sox win a World Series before Jays do it will be very easy to create "Red Sox 5 rings in 2 generations, Jays 0" narrative, and the Red Sox are a classic franchise while the Jays in there with Arizona.

If Jays win a World Series before Red Sox next it will be easy to create a narrative that they are about even. 

[Laika]

6 minutes ago, Olerud363.354 said:

On a 5 year time scale Jays are ahead just a bit...

Since 2015?   Probably about even... though I guess a 108 win season with a ring puts the Red Sox ahead.

Since 2000?  Red Sox way ahead.

Since 1977 (birth of BJs) - Red Sox a bit ahead.  Close.

If Red Sox win a World Series before Jays do it will be very easy to create "Red Sox 5 rings in 2 generations, Jays 0" narrative, and the Red Sox are a classic franchise while the Jays in there with Arizona.

If Jays win a World Series before Red Sox next it will be easy to create a narrative that they are about even. 

The Red Sox were also the BIGGEST LOSER IN SPORTS for freaking decades 

As has been demonstrated, it is hilarious to hold them up on a pedestal as having same kind of winning heritage. Yes, they were a great organization for 12 years or so. Nobody can take that away from them. 

[Olerud363.354]

21 minutes ago, Laika said:

The Red Sox were also the BIGGEST LOSER IN SPORTS for freaking decades 

Which decades?  During my lifetime which is similar to the Blue Jays lifetime it would be easier to report on the Red Sox losing seasons because their winning season have been many and most https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BOS/index.shtml.

They had losing seasons in 83, 92, 93, 94, 97, 12, 14, 15, 20, 22, 23.  That is 50 years.  That is 39 winning 11 losing by my count.   They have have 5 American League Championships and 4 rings in that time.  86 was a legendary year a pitch away from a ring. 

The Blue Jays greatest is Tony Fernandez, or Carlos Delgado, or maybe Jose Bautista all with around 36 WAR.  They would beat (and just beat) Xander Bogaertz (35 WAR or so) as a franchise icon.

In my lifetime Red Sox fans, in addition to 1986 and the four rings cheered for position players Nomar (41 WAR), Mookie (42 WAR),  Jim Rice (somewhat a peer to Barfield and Bell) 49 WAR, Pedroi 51 WAR, Big Papi Ortiz 52 WAR, Dwight Evans (67 WAR) and Boggs (72 WAR).  

On the pitching side they had Clemens and Pedro who beat out Stieb and Haladay. 

They also got to cheer on Manny Ramirez good years, though he is just outside their top 20 WAR with 33 (but 65 lifetime or so, so a legend to be sure). 

It;s the 50th anniversary of the Blue Jays.  So to honor it I bring a new stat CJFF (cumulative joy for fans) In 50 years cumulative Joy for fans on a completely made up scale eyeballing great players to watch, competitive seasons, playoff wins and rings. 

Red Sox - 1578

Blue Jays - 712

 

[Terminator]

I can only assume that RA Whifflenuts is about 18 years old because the Red Sox were synonymous with losing for an entire CENTURY.

They traded friggin' Babe Ruth and their most famous play in team history is Bill Buckner whiffing on a ground ball.

Yeah they had a nice 12 year stretch but they are back to loserville status.

There is no winning pedigree here and the Jays should NOT be looking to model them as some sort of winning franchise. Overall, they are more known for being LOSERS and this goes for their current form.

Everyone hates their ownership and front office for being cheap and not caring enough about winning.

Read a damn book WHIFFLENUTS

 

[Brownie19]

It seems all we need to do is go without a championship for another 54 years and then rip off 4 between 2080 and 2094 and we'll be known for our winning culture like the Red Sox.

Seems reasonable to me.

[Olerud363.354]

10 minutes ago, Terminator said:

I can only assume that RA Whifflenuts is about 18 years old because the Red Sox were synonymous with losing for an entire CENTURY.

They traded friggin' Babe Ruth and their most famous play in team history is Bill Buckner whiffing on a ground ball.

Yeah they had a nice 12 year stretch but they are back to loserville status.

It depends what you mean by 'losers'.   Already I made far too long post on this but they have had great success in the last 50 years corresponding to the Jays existance.  39 winning seasons, 11 losing, a lot of great players, a lot of great stories, a lot of great teams. 

They had 86, and I think the Bucky Dent thing in late 70s, and maybe some other 95 win teams that couldn't close it.  So if the definition of 'loser' is like 'loser' in the 2025 Blue Jays sense of loser (or the 1987 Blue Jays definition of loser), then they are losers.  But they haven't been a "non-winning, non-successful as a franchise" since at least maybe 60 years? 

Now if you are talking about the Great depression, I get it.  I totally get it, not many of us will remember those teams (maybe Jim Canuck?) but the market crashed, the red sox were winning 50 a year, while Ruth was hitting more homers than they won games... yeah Red Sox were losers just about until Ted Williams came along. 

[Olerud363.354]

3 minutes ago, Brownie19 said:

It seems all we need to do is go without a championship for another 54 years and then rip off 4 between 2080 and 2094 and we'll be known for our winning culture like the Red Sox.

Seems reasonable to me.

So the 2015 to 2025 Jays are basically the exact experience of the 70s, 80s, and 90s Red Sox losers?  Good teams.  Some thrills in the playoffs, not able to close.  Occasional 70 win down years. 

Jose Bautista, Vladimir, Donaldson, George Springer and the rest of you... according to the official Blue Jays Message Board definition of loser, you are all losers in the style of the 75 through 2003 Red Sox!

[Laika]

16 minutes ago, Olerud363.354 said:

It depends what you mean by 'losers'.   

Not winners

The worst kind of losing is of course losing when you should have done better. Losing in the playoffs consistently. Having resources and not making the playoffs. Making asinine decisions. 

Basically, the current New York Mets vibes... that was the Red Sox for much of their existence. 

[RA Whiffleball]

3 hours ago, Laika said:

I would suggest that you follow the thread here and see who was initially comparing them.

"Since 2015, the club has been heading in the right direction, but still lacks that baseball heritage, that winning culture, that je ne sais quoi that clubs like the Yanks, Cards, Red Sox, and Dodgers all have. Last season was a massive step, and I believe that Ed Rogers is in it to win it, but we are still not quite there. "

It seems like you have just proven the point that the modern Red Sox are AT BEST no better than Toronto when it comes to "winning culture" superlative ******** 

As Billy Beane said in Moneyball - I can do this all day...

How many WS, pennants, and divison titles have they won this century?

How many have we won?

Yeah, that's what I thought.

 

 

[Laika]

1 minute ago, RA Whiffleball said:

As Billy Beane said in Moneyball - I can do this all day...

How many WS, pennants, and divison titles have they won this century?

How many have we won?

Yeah, that's what I thought.

 

 

You can put the goal posts wherever you want, even up your own butt, and the Red Sox and you will still forever and always be huge losers. 

[RA Whiffleball]

2 hours ago, Terminator said:

I can only assume that RA Whifflenuts is about 18 years old because the Red Sox were synonymous with losing for an entire CENTURY.

They traded friggin' Babe Ruth and their most famous play in team history is Bill Buckner whiffing on a ground ball.

Yeah they had a nice 12 year stretch but they are back to loserville status.

There is no winning pedigree here and the Jays should NOT be looking to model them as some sort of winning franchise. Overall, they are more known for being LOSERS and this goes for their current form.

Everyone hates their ownership and front office for being cheap and not caring enough about winning.

Read a damn book WHIFFLENUTS

 

Another angry person who melts down when anyone is remotely critical of the club and uses facts to back it up.

One more time:

How many WS, pennants and divisions have they won this century?

And how many have we won?

At least I know how to read...

[RA Whiffleball]

4 minutes ago, Laika said:

You can put the goal posts wherever you want, even up your own butt, and the Red Sox and you will still forever and always be huge losers. 

Not moving goal posts. It's called using facts.

I'm sure they'll look up at their 9 WS banners, 14 pennants, and 10 division titles, and totally agree with you.

You have quite an obsession with genitalia and posteriors, btw.

[Laika]

Make your way over to a Red Sox message board and ask them what they think about their "winning culture"

[Spanky__99]

3 hours ago, Governator said:

We could just point to the Leafs for that.

McKenna!

[Spanky__99]

This thread...

[RA Whiffleball]

18 minutes ago, Laika said:

Make your way over to a Red Sox message board and ask them what they think about their "winning culture"

They are having a rough year, but don't forget they were a base-running blunder away from playing us in the divisional round.

So it's not like they've fallen off the face of the earth.

I hate them as they are our divisional rival, but I'm not delusional.  

[Governator]

26 minutes ago, RA Whiffleball said:

As Billy Beane said in Moneyball - I can do this all day...

How many WS, pennants, and divison titles have they won this century?

How many have we won?

Yeah, that's what I thought.

 

 

Cherry picking years to make stats sound important... are you a social media journalist?  The Jays have played in more ALCS series than the Red Sox since 2015.

Fact, there are zero players from the 2018 Red Sox who play for them today... There's only one team with a winning culture at the moment between the two.

[Olerud363.354]

26 minutes ago, Governator said:

Cherry picking years to make stats sound important... are you a social media journalist?  The Jays have played in more ALCS series than the Red Sox since 2015.

Fact, there are zero players from the 2018 Red Sox who play for them today... There's only one team with a winning culture at the moment between the two

Since 2015

Winning Culture - Blue Jays 98/100 Red Sox 12/100

Formula (Proprietary Blue Jays Message Board winning formulat)

2026 wins - Red Sox 16 Blue Jays 16

Players remaining since 2018 - Red Sox 0 Jays 0

World Championships - Red Sox 1 Jays 0

ALCS - Jays 3 Red Sox 2

ALDS - Red Sox 4 Jays 3

Division - Red Sox 3 Jays 2

Wild Card - Red Sox 2 Jays 3

 

[Stangstag]

8 minutes ago, Olerud363.354 said:

Since 2015

Winning Culture - Blue Jays 98/100 Red Sox 12/100

Formula (Proprietary Blue Jays Message Board winning formulat)

2026 wins - Red Sox 16 Blue Jays 16

Players remaining since 2018 - Red Sox 0 Jays 0

World Championships - Red Sox 1 Jays 0

ALCS - Jays 3 Red Sox 2

ALDS - Red Sox 4 Jays 3

Division - Red Sox 3 Jays 2

Wild Card - Red Sox 2 Jays 3

 

This is actually pretty surprising to me. My gut said the Redsox had way more playoff success than the Jays, but other than being able to finish the job, its pretty even.

I guess their true dominant stretch was from 2002 til 2013

[jaysblue]

Well we at least now know that RA Whiffleball isn't Grant77 😂

[Brownie19]

1 hour ago, Spanky__99 said:

This thread...

It's gross.  

[Olerud363.354]

10 minutes ago, Brownie19 said:

It's gross.

It's a 10/10 thread with a lot of history.  

Think the Red Sox are complete losers?  Fine opinion, back it up with a story about where you were when they blew it in Game 6.  I didn't follow baseball yet, but a lot of my friends around here did, great history talking to them about hyper-ventilating then trying to kill themselves in their dorm rooms.  

Did you follow the 1988 Red Sox?  Do you know someone who did?  Or do you know _NOTHING_ about the fantastic legendary 1988 Red Sox who hit .283 as a team.  Did you ever watch Wade Boggs?  Or Manny Ramirez/David  Ortiz back to back in their prime?  If so tell us why they are losers.

This board isn't only for the Yo-Bros.  I know some wish it was.

10/10 Dream Blue Jays message board thread.

Post1 - Red Sux SUUUCCKKKK!

Post2 - Yo Bro.  They sure do!

Easy to read.  No history, no data, no stories, no substance, great stuff for 2026 human society. 

[RA Whiffleball]

1 hour ago, Governator said:

Cherry picking years to make stats sound important... are you a social media journalist?  The Jays have played in more ALCS series than the Red Sox since 2015.

Fact, there are zero players from the 2018 Red Sox who play for them today... There's only one team with a winning culture at the moment between the two.

Not my argument.

One more time, because it's clearly not getting through.

How many WS, pennants, and division titles have they won, THIS CENTURY?

How many have we won?

Still waiting for you to answer the question.

Take your time. I know it's hard, I can wait.