Fan Petition to replace Atkins and Shapiro

[Delete_My_Account_Thanks]

 

https://www.change.org/savethebluejays

The petition makes some great points.

If you aren't in favour, no worries just don't sign it.

 

But to those who want to see Atkins and Shapiro gone, it only takes 10 seconds of your time.

Let's help give this thing a bit of a boost and maybe it really picks up steam?

[Jonn]

The situation really isn’t this dire lol.

[Brownie19]

Has a team ever done anything with a petition like this?

[max silver]

18 minutes ago, Vladdywagon said:

 

https://www.change.org/savethebluejays

The petition makes some great points.

If you aren't in favour, no worries just don't sign it.

 

But to those who want to see Atkins and Shapiro gone, it only takes 10 seconds of your time.

Let's help give this thing a bit of a boost and maybe it really picks up steam?

I don't see the point of efforts like this. If the team has another season similar to 2024 change is going to occur organically.

The team had a single bad season in the last 5, but based on the fan fiction piece you linked to one would think the team just endured 10 consecutive losing seasons. It was intentionally ignored that the period from 2017-2019 were poor because the team that the previous GM built was old, expensive and increasingly injury prone. The writer acts like the previous GM walked on water despite only having his team be successful for half a season while he was in charge, and a single season after he left. He left behind a weak farm system which was ranked similarly to what it is now, except the current system actually has a lot of ready/nearly ready position players in the upper minors that have a good shot to contribute to the team as soon as this season.

The people who write partially accurate pieces like the one you presented utilize a lot of half truths and intentionally withhold a lot of crucial information as well with zero effort expended towards presenting fair and balanced information. I seriously doubt Rogers would particularly care about a petition, if the stadium is half empty because the team sucks and the tv ratings slip accordingly the bottom line will be affected and change will occur as a result.

[Delete_My_Account_Thanks]

Don't sign it then bucko 

[Delete_My_Account_Thanks]

30 minutes ago, Jonn said:

The situation really isn’t this dire lol.

Many of us disagree, and don't feel that this regime is capable of doing anything but drive up payroll.

Next year we're screwed. 

[Delete_My_Account_Thanks]

22 minutes ago, Brownie19 said:

Has a team ever done anything with a petition like this?

If it gets enough signatures and gets publicity, maybe something happens.

Read the petition.  There are plenty of links to fan polls showing 90%+ of fans want them fired.

You guys live in a bubble here.

[Delete_My_Account_Thanks]

5 minutes ago, max silver said:

I don't see the point of efforts like this. If the team has another season similar to 2024 change is going to occur organically.

The team had a single bad season in the last 5, but based on the fan fiction piece you linked to one would think the team just endured 10 consecutive losing seasons. It was intentionally ignored that the period from 2017-2019 were poor because the team that the previous GM built was old, expensive and increasingly injury prone. The writer acts like the previous GM walked on water despite only having his team be successful for half a season while he was in charge, and a single season after he left. He left behind a weak farm system which was ranked similarly to what it is now, except the current system actually has a lot of ready/nearly ready position players in the upper minors that have a good shot to contribute to the team as soon as this season.

The people who write partially accurate pieces like the one you presented utilize a lot of half truths and intentionally withhold a lot of crucial information as well with zero effort expended towards presenting fair and balanced information. I seriously doubt Rogers would particularly care about a petition, if the stadium is half empty because the team sucks and the tv ratings slip accordingly the bottom line will be affected and change will occur as a result.

Thanks for the long winded reply.  In my opinion, you couldn't be more wrong.

Wasn't expecting you to sign it anyways.

[BB17]

15 minutes ago, max silver said:

I don't see the point of efforts like this. If the team has another season similar to 2024 change is going to occur organically.

The team had a single bad season in the last 5, but based on the fan fiction piece you linked to one would think the team just endured 10 consecutive losing seasons. It was intentionally ignored that the period from 2017-2019 were poor because the team that the previous GM built was old, expensive and increasingly injury prone. The writer acts like the previous GM walked on water despite only having his team be successful for half a season while he was in charge, and a single season after he left. He left behind a weak farm system which was ranked similarly to what it is now, except the current system actually has a lot of ready/nearly ready position players in the upper minors that have a good shot to contribute to the team as soon as this season.

The people who write partially accurate pieces like the one you presented utilize a lot of half truths and intentionally withhold a lot of crucial information as well with zero effort expended towards presenting fair and balanced information. I seriously doubt Rogers would particularly care about a petition, if the stadium is half empty because the team sucks and the tv ratings slip accordingly the bottom line will be affected and change will occur as a result.

I think the big difference is the payroll this regime has had to work with plus the fact there are so many more postseason teams. 

It really isn't that difficult nor should it be that much of an achievement to make the postseason with a 250M payroll with each league having 7/15 teams make the postseason.

Making the postseason when there was 4 playoff teams and the Yankees/Red Sox in their prime would have been a hell of an achievement.

[max silver]

3 minutes ago, Vladdywagon said:

Thanks for the long winded reply.  In my opinion, you couldn't be more wrong.

Wasn't expecting you to sign it anyways.

It wasn't anywhere close to as long winded as the Cathal Kelly'esque hatchet job piece you linked to. 

I'm not going to waste my time going piece by piece to refute that crap, but I'll grab a small snippet to showcase the types of half truths contained throughout.

Quote

 The Blue Jays finished 2nd in the bidding for Ohtani, largely because they were the only team who didn't read the tea leaves that he was destined to sign with the Dodgers.  While other teams dropped out and focused their attention towards other players, the Jays stayed in the bidding war, were used by Ohtani's agent to drive up his contract value, and missed out on the other big name free agents, ultimately ending up having to sign the leftover scraps.  

The Blue Jays were not the only other team that was bidding for Ohtani's services until the end. If Ohtani hadn't outright told the team that he wasn't going to sign with him I don't know why any serious fan of the team would actually want the team to voluntarily take themselves out of the running. That's dumb as hell. 

I'd love to know who these other big name free agents were that the Blue Jays missed out on while waiting for Ohtani to sign. Oh that's right, there was literally nobody of note that signed before Ohtani made his final decision. Most of the better remaining free agents were Boras clients, and due to his ridiculous asking prices and refusal to drop to more reasonable levels the bulk of these guys were forced to take short term deals as spring training approached.

[Eat My Shatkins]

Lol my goodness.

Go outside.

Touch grass.

Get a life beyond your Fandom.

[max silver]

1 minute ago, BB17 said:

I think the big difference is the payroll this regime has had to work with plus the fact there are so many more postseason teams. 

It really isn't that difficult nor should it be that much of an achievement to make the postseason with a 250M payroll with each league having 7/15 teams make the postseason.

Making the postseason when there was 4 playoff teams and the Yankees/Red Sox in their prime would have been a hell of an achievement.

The team was still a good team during their 4 year run whatever the playoff format happened to be. They were still playing in a division where it took a winning percentage equivalent to 99 wins to take the division over these 4 years, so making the playoffs while having to compete and play the bulk of your games against teams of this quality should still count for something.

The payroll thing is overstated as well. The team didn't even pay luxury tax until the 2024 season.

[Brock Beauchamp]

3 minutes ago, Eat My Shatkins said:

Lol my goodness.

Go outside.

Touch grass.

Get a life beyond your Fandom.

No need to make it personal.

But on topic, isn't Shapiro in his last year under contract anyway? The Jays aren't going to do anything right now and if the team flounders in 2025, it feels like this problem will take care of itself.

[mphenhef]

I would be even more concerned about the future of the team if a fan petition had any impact on their front office positions.

[Eat My Shatkins]

4 minutes ago, mphenhef said:

I would be even more concerned about the future of the team if a fan petition had any impact on their front office positions.

Lol no kidding 

[Delete_My_Account_Thanks]

It's hilarious the amount of backlash I'm getting for posting this.

Get a life people.  Like I said, if you don't agree, don't sign it.

 

[Delete_My_Account_Thanks]

2 hours ago, max silver said:

It wasn't anywhere close to as long winded as the Cathal Kelly'esque hatchet job piece you linked to. 

I'm not going to waste my time going piece by piece to refute that crap, but I'll grab a small snippet to showcase the types of half truths contained throughout.

The Blue Jays were not the only other team that was bidding for Ohtani's services until the end. If Ohtani hadn't outright told the team that he wasn't going to sign with him I don't know why any serious fan of the team would actually want the team to voluntarily take themselves out of the running. That's dumb as hell. 

I'd love to know who these other big name free agents were that the Blue Jays missed out on while waiting for Ohtani to sign. Oh that's right, there was literally nobody of note that signed before Ohtani made his final decision. Most of the better remaining free agents were Boras clients, and due to his ridiculous asking prices and refusal to drop to more reasonable levels the bulk of these guys were forced to take short term deals as spring training approached.

That's your opinion, you're entitled to it pal

[Delete_My_Account_Thanks]

1 hour ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

No need to make it personal.

But on topic, isn't Shapiro in his last year under contract anyway? The Jays aren't going to do anything right now and if the team flounders in 2025, it feels like this problem will take care of itself.

I don't want these guys handling the trade deadline if we're out of it this year.

[max silver]

8 minutes ago, Vladdywagon said:

I don't want these guys handling the trade deadline if we're out of it this year.

I thought they did a tremendous job at the deadline last season.

[max silver]

13 minutes ago, Vladdywagon said:

It's hilarious the amount of backlash I'm getting for posting this.

Get a life people.  Like I said, if you don't agree, don't sign it.

 

There's the old expression if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen that's perfectly suited for this. I don't know why you felt it was necessary to start a thread after your initial attempt was completely ignored. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

13 minutes ago, Vladdywagon said:

I don't want these guys handling the trade deadline if we're out of it this year.

Sure, and that’s a normal way to feel. But it’s not how teams operate. Ownership will either fire them during the offseason or keep them through the season. It’s just how these things work most of the time. 

[Delete_My_Account_Thanks]

8 minutes ago, max silver said:

There's the old expression if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen that's perfectly suited for this. I don't know why you felt it was necessary to start a thread after your initial attempt was completely ignored. 

 

Like I said in the original post, if you don't agree don't sign it. 

You spend way to much time worrying about what I post.  If you have a problem with me send me a private message.  No one wants to see us bicker back and forth.

 

 

[Delete_My_Account_Thanks]

13 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

Sure, and that’s a normal way to feel. But it’s not how teams operate. Ownership will either fire them during the offseason or keep them through the season. It’s just how these things work most of the time. 

I agree that's how it usually operates, but this isn't a usual situation, or these guys would have fired a long time ago.

If the team doesn't win, I think there's going to be an insane amount of fan backlash this year.  Every poll I see where fans have a chance to voice their displeasure it's over 90% want Atkins fired, and that's with thousands of respondents.  There's a link to a bunch of polls near the end of the petition.  This forum is the only place I've seen that seems to buck the trend.

[Brock Beauchamp]

17 minutes ago, Vladdywagon said:

I agree that's how it usually operates, but this isn't a usual situation, or these guys would have fired a long time ago.

If the team doesn't win, I think there's going to be an insane amount of fan backlash this year.  Every poll I see where fans have a chance to voice their displeasure it's over 90% want Atkins fired, and that's with thousands of respondents.  There's a link to a bunch of polls near the end of the petition.  This forum is the only place I've seen that seems to buck the trend.

Would they have been fired under a "usual situation"? I don't think that's true. And to be clear, if I had the reins I probably would have fired both of them. To come out of that young core with no playoff success, no long-term players, and a bottom third farm system is... not good.

But front offices tend to get longer leashes than fans like. When dealing with a decision as important as who runs your billion-dollar business, not making rash decisions makes sense and giving guys a little too long a leash is going to happen.

[John_Havok]

Just now, Brock Beauchamp said:

Would they have been fired under a "usual situation"? I don't think that's true. And to be clear, if I had the reins I probably would have fired both of them. To come out of that young core with no playoff success, no long-term players, and a bottom third farm system is... not good.

But front offices tend to get longer leashes than fans like. When dealing with a decision as important as who runs your billion-dollar business, not making rash decisions makes sense and giving guys a little too long a leash is going to happen.

If most casuals had their way, every FO, manager and team employee from every organization that didn't win the World Series would get fired every offseason.

Their opinions are like those tiny rocks that work their way into your shoe tread and make weird squeaking noises when you walk. 

[max silver]

21 minutes ago, John_Havok said:

If most casuals had their way, every FO, manager and team employee from every organization that didn't win the World Series would get fired every offseason.

Their opinions are like those tiny rocks that work their way into your shoe tread and make weird squeaking noises when you walk. 

Fans would have run AA out of town well before he eventually built a competitive team.

[BTS]

This season is basically no-lose for the people who really want Atkins gone. Either the team makes the playoffs of he's fired. I'm betting on fired. 

[max silver]

46 minutes ago, Vladdywagon said:

 

Like I said in the original post, if you don't agree don't sign it. 

You spend way to much time worrying about what I post.  If you have a problem with me send me a private message.  No one wants to see us bicker back and forth.

 

 

Don't give yourself so much credit, I don't "worry about what you post" in the slightest. A more correct assessment would be that I disagree with nearly everything that you post. If you don't want people to comment in response to the posts you make then there is a really easy solution to that problem.

[Brownie19]

3 hours ago, mphenhef said:

I would be even more concerned about the future of the team if a fan petition had any impact on their front office positions.

That was my point.  People who write, circulate, sign and push petitions like this are really naive and not smart.  Case in point.

[Delete_My_Account_Thanks]

2 hours ago, John_Havok said:

If most casuals had their way, every FO, manager and team employee from every organization that didn't win the World Series would get fired every offseason.

Their opinions are like those tiny rocks that work their way into your shoe tread and make weird squeaking noises when you walk. 

That's a really nice thing for you to say about "casuals".