Rumour [CardinalsLive Admin] Jays shopping Chris Bassitt

[Barrelsandbombs]

Could be a nice little way to free up some budget space if they replace him in the rotation with a lower AAV starter that projects similarly.

[Stangstag]

They really should’ve shopped Bassitt at the deadline last year.

Sometimes this front office seems directionless…

[Eat My Shatkins]

14 minutes ago, Stangstag said:

They really should’ve shopped Bassitt at the deadline last year.

Sometimes this front office seems directionless…

Maybe they did?

[Jays24]

4 minutes ago, Eat My Shatkins said:

Maybe they did?

We go by results on the new board.  Excuse making has died with the old board :) 

[L54]

17 minutes ago, Eat My Shatkins said:

Maybe they did?

Maybe they didn’t? 
 

[Eat My Shatkins]

12 minutes ago, Jays24 said:

We go by results on the new board.  Excuse making has died with the old board :) 

You must have quoted the wrong post?

[max silver]

Just now, L54 said:

Maybe they didn’t? 
 

None of us knows one way or the other so it's a baseless assumption either way to make a declarative statement about whether or not Bassitt was shopped. We do know he wasn't moved but that's it.

[max silver]

13 minutes ago, Jays24 said:

We go by results on the new board.  Excuse making has died with the old board :) 

Shopping a player doesn't automatically mean someone will be willing to pay the necessary asking price to make it worthwhile.

[Eat My Shatkins]

4 minutes ago, L54 said:

Maybe they didn’t? 
 

Yeah, maybe they did or maybe they didn't.

 

We don't know whether they did or not so it seems kind of dumb to criticize them for not doing something when we don't whether or not they did it. 

 

[Eat My Shatkins]

I think was stupid of Jays24 and L54 to make out behind a dumpster.

I don't know for sure they did that, but I'm just going to assume they did and then criticize them for it.

[Jays24]

1 minute ago, Eat My Shatkins said:

I think was stupid of Jays24 and L54 to make out behind a dumpster.

I don't know for sure they did that, but I'm just going to assume they did and then criticize them for it.

My comment was more of a joke but you'll obviously have people who support Shatkins give them the benefit of the doubt while people who hate them won't.  This isn't a big issue to me.  We got much bigger concerns to worry about than trading Bassitt at the deadline vs now lol. 

[Eat My Shatkins]

1 minute ago, Jays24 said:

My comment was more of a joke but you'll obviously have people who support Shatkins give them the benefit of the doubt while people who hate them won't.  This isn't a big issue to me.  We got much bigger concerns to worry about than trading Bassitt at the deadline vs now lol. 

Shatkins deserve to be criticized for a great many things, we don't need to make up reasons to criticize them out of thin air.

[Jays24]

5 minutes ago, Eat My Shatkins said:

Shatkins deserve to be criticized for a great many things, we don't need to make up reasons to criticize them out of thin air.

Ya I was more than happy with the pivot at the deadline. 

Heck, I still see a path for this off-season to be a success but A LOT of things need to happen pretty quickly for that to happen, just gotta open the chequebook.  

[jaysblue]

1 hour ago, max silver said:

None of us knows one way or the other so it's a baseless assumption either way to make a declarative statement about whether or not Bassitt was shopped. We do know he wasn't moved but that's it.

We do know that Atkins was trying to figure out a way for that to be a possibility. 

 

[L54]

2 hours ago, max silver said:

None of us knows one way or the other so it's a baseless assumption either way to make a declarative statement about whether or not Bassitt was shopped. We do know he wasn't moved but that's it.

None of us know anything 

[Blue balls]

I could see a moment where they were checking in on interest for Bassitt when they were hoping to land Corbin Burnes.

I’d be surprised if they are still looking to trade him unless they are able to get Santander + Flaherty + RP for example. If they don’t land anybody of mention, might as well keep Bassitt to eat innings and trade him at the trade deadline.

[mphenhef]

Feel free to delete this after you see this @Brock Beauchamp but in my opinion it isn’t long threads that make the board uninviting to new users but interactions like in this thread that are filled with pointless bickering.

[Laika]

This "Cardinals live" twitter guy is clearly just a poser. Future threads started based on his posts will probably just get deleted or merged somewhere 

[BTS]

I don't even understand what the argument in this thread is about. Circumstances change. Bassitt @ 21M now is a more attractive asset than Bassitt @ 21M was 6 months ago given what we've seen arms like Frankie Montas go for. And team priorities change. It's pretty defensible to want to hold on to Bassitt at the deadline, then gauge interest when you're deep into negotiations with Burnes, then decide to hold when you don't land Burnes. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

2 hours ago, mphenhef said:

Feel free to delete this after you see this @Brock Beauchamp but in my opinion it isn’t long threads that make the board uninviting to new users but interactions like in this thread that are filled with pointless bickering.

Bickering is a problem but in and of itself, not a huge issue. The problem is when it tips over into grudges and name-calling, which I will try to address over time.

[Brownie19]

1 hour ago, BTS said:

I don't even understand what the argument in this thread is about. Circumstances change. Bassitt @ 21M now is a more attractive asset than Bassitt @ 21M was 6 months ago given what we've seen arms like Frankie Montas go for. And team priorities change. It's pretty defensible to want to hold on to Bassitt at the deadline, then gauge interest when you're deep into negotiations with Burnes, then decide to hold when you don't land Burnes. 

[Stangstag]

9 hours ago, BTS said:

I don't even understand what the argument in this thread is about. Circumstances change. Bassitt @ 21M now is a more attractive asset than Bassitt @ 21M was 6 months ago given what we've seen arms like Frankie Montas go for. And team priorities change. It's pretty defensible to want to hold on to Bassitt at the deadline, then gauge interest when you're deep into negotiations with Burnes, then decide to hold when you don't land Burnes. 

All I was saying is that if they’re looking to move him now, they should have been looking to move him at the deadline.

He seems to me like a guy that could fall apart any day now considering his age, and I felt like last deadline was a good time to move him and replace him with something younger and/or cheaper. Or with more upside.

I was saying this at the deadline last year so it isn’t hindsight speaking.

[Brownie19]

7 minutes ago, Stangstag said:

All I was saying is that if they’re looking to move him now, they should have been looking to move him at the deadline.

He seems to me like a guy that could fall apart any day now considering his age, and I felt like last deadline was a good time to move him and replace him with something younger and/or cheaper. Or with more upside.

I was saying this at the deadline last year so it isn’t hindsight speaking.

I don't disagree with this at all (I was fully on the rebuilt train last deadline), but there is a probability they did shop him at the deadline, weren't getting the return they wanted and held on accordingly, knowing their was a good chance the market may re-shape his value in the offseason.

[max silver]

11 minutes ago, Stangstag said:

All I was saying is that if they’re looking to move him now, they should have been looking to move him at the deadline.

He seems to me like a guy that could fall apart any day now considering his age, and I felt like last deadline was a good time to move him and replace him with something younger and/or cheaper. Or with more upside.

I was saying this at the deadline last year so it isn’t hindsight speaking.

I think it was perfectly defensible to hang onto Bassitt, at least until they acquired an appropriate replacement for him. Moving him at the deadline would have created another hole in the rotation, and would also remove the possibility of upgrading two positions at once with a new rotation addition as Rodriguez would be needed in the rotation vs being available for shifting to the pen. 

[Terminator]

Cardinals Live Admin 

[Key22]

11 hours ago, BTS said:

I don't even understand what the argument in this thread is about. Circumstances change. Bassitt @ 21M now is a more attractive asset than Bassitt @ 21M was 6 months ago given what we've seen arms like Frankie Montas go for. And team priorities change. It's pretty defensible to want to hold on to Bassitt at the deadline, then gauge interest when you're deep into negotiations with Burnes, then decide to hold when you don't land Burnes. 

Exactly. You keep him until you can make an upgrade. While his WAR isn't great he does provide innings and would be a solid number 5 starter. The problem is that for the Jays he's pegged as their number 3. Gausman is no longer an ace and Berrios is a good number 4 on a great team borderline number 3 on a decent team but number 2 in Toronto.

I am not sure why Atkins and Shapiro insist on going for it in 2025. I am trying to be optimistic that Vladdy will have an MVP  calibre year, Bo will be the AL hits leader he was in previous years and the pitchers will all have career years.

Trading Bassit and signing cheaper starters with similar numbers makes little sense because those teams that would acquire Bassit could just - umm - sign those free agents with similar numbers for less money themselves and they wouldn't have to give up prospects.

The problem for the Jays is that it seems they are always unprepared for market inflation. Their valuations seem to be well behind the market.

 

Sean Manea was mediocre in 2022 and 2023 is 32 years old and had a good 3.0 WAR in 2024.

He got $75m for 3 years. That's the market Mr. Atkins.

Any offer to Vlad has to start with at least a 4 (now probably a 5) - that's the market.

So you either play in that market or you don't - but don't be in between - that'll kill you. In Between gets you average teams that can maybe scrape into the playoffs and get bounced quickly.

The Jays have shown us exactly that. You go all in and sign Santander AND Alonso AND Hoffman AND Tanner Scott AND Bregman and you try to bludgeon your way through with middling starting pitching - or you should blow it up and trade everyone and start over acquiring a massive prospect haul. Signing only one from that group does nothing.

And they don't have the money to do all that. You would think there would be many teams out there that would give you a pretty decent group of prospects for Vladdy Berrios and Gausman. Frees up a slew of cash as well. Retool for 2026 or 2027.

 

[Delete_My_Account_Thanks]

On 1/7/2025 at 10:00 PM, Jays24 said:

My comment was more of a joke but you'll obviously have people who support Shatkins give them the benefit of the doubt while people who hate them won't.  This isn't a big issue to me.  We got much bigger concerns to worry about than trading Bassitt at the deadline vs now lol. 

I have that guy on ignore now, only saw his comment in the quote.  Not sure why he gets away with being a jerk to people who don't agree with him

[BB17]

On 1/8/2025 at 7:42 PM, Key22 said:

Exactly. You keep him until you can make an upgrade. While his WAR isn't great he does provide innings and would be a solid number 5 starter. The problem is that for the Jays he's pegged as their number 3. Gausman is no longer an ace and Berrios is a good number 4 on a great team borderline number 3 on a decent team but number 2 in Toronto.

I am not sure why Atkins and Shapiro insist on going for it in 2025. I am trying to be optimistic that Vladdy will have an MVP  calibre year, Bo will be the AL hits leader he was in previous years and the pitchers will all have career years.

Trading Bassit and signing cheaper starters with similar numbers makes little sense because those teams that would acquire Bassit could just - umm - sign those free agents with similar numbers for less money themselves and they wouldn't have to give up prospects.

The problem for the Jays is that it seems they are always unprepared for market inflation. Their valuations seem to be well behind the market.

 

Sean Manea was mediocre in 2022 and 2023 is 32 years old and had a good 3.0 WAR in 2024.

He got $75m for 3 years. That's the market Mr. Atkins.

Any offer to Vlad has to start with at least a 4 (now probably a 5) - that's the market.

So you either play in that market or you don't - but don't be in between - that'll kill you. In Between gets you average teams that can maybe scrape into the playoffs and get bounced quickly.

The Jays have shown us exactly that. You go all in and sign Santander AND Alonso AND Hoffman AND Tanner Scott AND Bregman and you try to bludgeon your way through with middling starting pitching - or you should blow it up and trade everyone and start over acquiring a massive prospect haul. Signing only one from that group does nothing.

And they don't have the money to do all that. You would think there would be many teams out there that would give you a pretty decent group of prospects for Vladdy Berrios and Gausman. Frees up a slew of cash as well. Retool for 2026 or 2027.

 

I agree with lots of your points, but paying all those FA could just cause you a black hole down the road that would be tough to get out of. At least the current strategy leaves the team with lots of payroll flexibility down the road for a new regime to start fresh.

Even just trading Bo this offseason would seem to make a lot of sense and you wouldn't have to punt on the year. Shifting Giminez to SS and moving Wagner to 2nd while signing say Alonso at DH doesn't hurt the team much this year and you'd also get assets back in the trade. Unless the offers for Bo are just really bad, but we really don't know what conversation they've had.

The best we can really hope for is a bunch of the young position players take a huge step and look like they can be regulars for the next 5 years and the pitching in the minors gets healthy and churn out a couple SP who can be in the rotation. Even if the team goes out, wins 90 games and say makes it to the ALCS, Vladdy and Bo leave as FA, well the team's future still looks pretty bleak if the success was coming from guys like Springer, Berrios, Bassit etc..