Multiple free agents took notice of Jays uninspiring farm system - Passan

[Brownie19]

22 minutes ago, Pendleton said:

Khal Stephen 

Fernando Perez

Johnny King 

 

Lots of interesting arms

wait until they hit AAA...

[Laika]

Jays farm lowkey underrated 

If it is possible to both suck and be underrated

[Terminator]

If I was a FA I'd almost want the team to have a s***** farm system.

Imagine your Tony Taters and a stacked farm pushes you out of the field and into a full-time DH role. You're also no longer batting cleanup, you're hitting 6th. Had a down year? Too bad you're now on a short side platoon with the 24 year old bat from AAA to end the last couple of years on your deal.

You now miss all of your performance bonuses and your next contract is worse.

But at least he got to play with some stellar young talent!

 

[Laika]

17 minutes ago, Terminator said:

If I was a FA I'd almost want the team to have a s***** farm system.

Imagine your Tony Taters and a stacked farm pushes you out of the field and into a full-time DH role. You're also no longer batting cleanup, you're hitting 6th. Had a down year? Too bad you're now on a short side platoon with the 24 year old bat from AAA to end the last couple of years on your deal.

You now miss all of your performance bonuses and your next contract is worse.

But at least he got to play with some stellar young talent!

 

Also, Jays will get THE BEST minor league signings this year. Top of the s*** pile.

[AMS528]

18 minutes ago, Terminator said:

If I was a FA I'd almost want the team to have a s***** farm system.

Imagine your Tony Taters and a stacked farm pushes you out of the field and into a full-time DH role. You're also no longer batting cleanup, you're hitting 6th. Had a down year? Too bad you're now on a short side platoon with the 24 year old bat from AAA to end the last couple of years on your deal.

You now miss all of your performance bonuses and your next contract is worse.

But at least he got to play with some stellar young talent!

 

Lots of athletes want to win though. They're competitive people, and they are going to have the confidence that they won't be the person replaced either. Also guaranteed contracts so it's not as if they lose money if they get moved down the order. 

[Delete_My_Account_Thanks]

3 hours ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

I mostly agree with this. The Braves looked really impressive for a 3-4 year stretch and continue to look pretty smart for those extensions but that's a pretty flawed team at this point.

Ok but at least they have a WS to show for and how many straight NL East titles did they win?

 

We've got....nothing.  Nothing to show for it and nothing in the cupboards

[AMS528]

3 hours ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

I mostly agree with this. The Braves looked really impressive for a 3-4 year stretch and continue to look pretty smart for those extensions but that's a pretty flawed team at this point.

7 year run overall though of making the playoffs. That's a long stretch to manage that. 

[Delete_My_Account_Thanks]

3 hours ago, Eat My Shatkins said:

What gets me is even when the Jays do have a wave of pitching prospects that look like they might have something, they hit Buffalo and f***ing die. Especially the relievers. Like what in the hell happened to Connor Cooke last year? And Pardinho was a beast relieving last year then got promoted to Buffalo and got his face caved in.

Didnt Pardinho have something like 20 straight scoreless innings in AAlast year?  And then he started poorly for the Bisons but I think finished strong?

And we just let him walk for nothing as a minor league free agent.  He'd probably look pretty good in our pen right now.

[BatFlip]

1 minute ago, AMS528 said:

7 year run overall though of making the playoffs. That's a long stretch to manage that. 

If I recall correctly, when AA took over the Braves had an unreal farm system (8 or 9 of the top 100 prospects) and was the undisputed #1 in the bigs in farm rankings.  

I love AA, and he made some great moves, but he was also taking over at the exact right time.  But again, he has done some great work for sure.

[max silver]

15 minutes ago, Vladdywagon said:

Didnt Pardinho have something like 20 straight scoreless innings in AAlast year?  And then he started poorly for the Bisons but I think finished strong?

And we just let him walk for nothing as a minor league free agent.  He'd probably look pretty good in our pen right now.

That's not true. Pardinho was re-signed as a minor league free agent and invited to spring training.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/blue-jays-sign-pardinho-lauer-and-sanchez-to-minor-league-deals/

[Dagagad]

Its been obvious for years that this isn't a smart front office especially in the context of this division. 

[The_DH]

Major league bitch slap.  

[Carlos Danger]

I heard an interview with Teo this AM as I was driving into work. The context was that another team offered $5 mil more than the Dodgers.

Teo stated, (paraphrasing) the Dodgers showed/had confidence in him when other Teams in his past had not. I doubt he was reffering to when he was with Houston. So either TO or SEA. 
 

You be the judge….

[Abomination]

5 hours ago, Eat My Shatkins said:

What gets me is even when the Jays do have a wave of pitching prospects that look like they might have something, they hit Buffalo and f***ing die. Especially the relievers. Like what in the hell happened to Connor Cooke last year? And Pardinho was a beast relieving last year then got promoted to Buffalo and got his face caved in.

Maybe it's the TYPE of pitchers we're drafting that is the issue.

[Terminator]

33 minutes ago, Carlos Danger said:

I heard an interview with Teo this AM as I was driving into work. The context was that another team offered $5 mil more than the Dodgers.

Teo stated, (paraphrasing) the Dodgers showed/had confidence in him when other Teams in his past had not. I doubt he was reffering to when he was with Houston. So either TO or SEA. 
 

You be the judge….

Not surprised. Fans were always clamoring to get him back but once you trade a player in this manner it doesn't seem like they ever come back.

For one, the team is generally down on the player compared to the market (hence the trade). Second, the player is understandably going to harbor some feelings for getting dealt.

The major exception is when soon to be FAs are traded at the deadline. The situation is more understandable for both sides. Rickey Henderson re-signed with the A's after he got traded here, Yimi just signed with us, etc.

[Stangstag]

2 hours ago, AMS528 said:

7 year run overall though of making the playoffs. That's a long stretch to manage that. 

Its funny because the only year they actually made the WS and won, it was with their worst playoff roster of that 7 year stretch.

Shows how much of a tossup things are in the postseason.

[Brownie19]

20 minutes ago, Stangstag said:

Its funny because the only year they actually made the WS and won, it was with their worst playoff roster of that 7 year stretch.

Shows how much of a tossup things are in the postseason.

Exactly.  If 2021 doesn't happen - the current Braves may very well be considered somewhat of a disappointment like the Braves of the 90's with Maddux/Glavine/Smoltz/Chipper/Andruw/etc. for their inability to win the big games.

But it did - and the Braves won is what was a crazy unexpected year for them.  It was fun to watch.

 

[Carlos Danger]

37 minutes ago, Stangstag said:

Its funny because the only year they actually made the WS and won, it was with their worst playoff roster of that 7 year stretch.

Shows how much of a tossup things are in the postseason.

That team also recognized their deficiencies at the deadline, didn’t rest on their laurels made a shitload of trades and acquisitions and it paid off. 

 

It pisses me off to no end we did nothing to improve our offense at the 2023 deadline which set the table for scoring zero runs in the game we pulled Berrios and 1 run the previous game or something like that…..

[Stangstag]

17 minutes ago, Brownie19 said:

Exactly.  If 2021 doesn't happen - the current Braves may very well be considered somewhat of a disappointment like the Braves of the 90's with Maddux/Glavine/Smoltz/Chipper/Andruw/etc. for their inability to win the big games.

But it did - and the Braves won is what was a crazy unexpected year for them.  It was fun to watch.

 

Makes you wish Atkins would have pushed a bit harder at the deadline in 2021/22/23.

Similar to the Indians trading for Miller at the 2016 deadline. If they don’t make that move they don’t make a deep run like they did.

Atkins tenure as GM can best be summarized as “what if”

[Stangstag]

2 minutes ago, Carlos Danger said:

That team also recognized their deficiencies at the deadline, didn’t rest on their laurels made a shitload of trades and acquisitions and it paid off. 

 

It pisses me off to no end we did nothing to improve our offense at the 2023 deadline which set the table for scoring zero runs in the game we pulled Berrios and 1 run the previous game or something like that…..

Also missing the playoffs altogether in 2021. Yup. Fuggin sucks.

[Brownie19]

1 hour ago, Carlos Danger said:

That team also recognized their deficiencies at the deadline, didn’t rest on their laurels made a shitload of trades and acquisitions and it paid off. 

To be fair - he traded for Soler (77 wRC+ with KC), Eddie Roserio (88 wRC+ with CLE) and Pederson (92 wRC+ with CHI) and magically, they all went on incredible runs as soon as they reached Atlanta.  He literally threw a bunch of s*** against the wall and it ALL stuck.

If wasn't an aggressive move at all and it probably fails 8 or 9 times out of 10.  He knew they weren't really that good, but, to his credit, he worked some low risk deals to see if he could strike lightning in a bottle - and he did.  Kudos to him, but Atlanta was VERY close to repeating what happened in the 90's.  One might suggest they still could if they don't find a way to win another WS over the next 4-5 years.

Atkins made a similar type move in 2023 adding DeJong, who had a 93 wRC+ at the time and that prick gave us a -76 wRC+ in Toronto LOL  (yes, Soler, Roserio and Pederson all had better track records and such).

[Carlos Danger]

53 minutes ago, Brownie19 said:

To be fair - he traded for Soler (77 wRC+ with KC), Eddie Roserio (88 wRC+ with CLE) and Pederson (92 wRC+ with CHI) and magically, they all went on incredible runs as soon as they reached Atlanta.  He literally threw a bunch of s*** against the wall and it ALL stuck.

If wasn't an aggressive move at all and it probably fails 8 or 9 times out of 10.  He knew they weren't really that good, but, to his credit, he worked some low risk deals to see if he could strike lightning in a bottle - and he did.  Kudos to him, but Atlanta was VERY close to repeating what happened in the 90's.  One might suggest they still could if they don't find a way to win another WS over the next 4-5 years.

Atkins made a similar type move in 2023 adding DeJong, who had a 93 wRC+ at the time and that prick gave us a -76 wRC+ in Toronto LOL  (yes, Soler, Roserio and Pederson all had better track records and such).

You are leaving out Duval who I believe ended up being the NL RBI leader. A bonafide thumper and played plus OF/CF D. 

Rosario was hurt the whole year and everyone knew Solar was a better player than who he was in KC. Joc was used in the right situations where he thrived and the fact AA added 5 guys with RR from the Pirates at the deadline infused a lot of energy and motivation a la the 2015 Blue Jays.

 

You can’t just look at a snapshot of wRC+ when building a baseball Team. You have consistently being a slave to stat cast.

Comparing a snap shot of known power hitters to Dejong is comically absurd.

Semien had some of his worst stats of his career the year before we signed him if you go back and look at baseball reference or some s*** like that. However, he had something like a 1000 plus OPS in his last month of the season which showed he had made an adjustment. To give credit to the Jay’s FO, they jumped on him, probably realizing that Semien’s previous season total was not reflective of the player they were signing. I saw the same in Fantasy and it paid of nicely ;). 

Point being, to discredit AA by basically saying he threw s*** at the wall and got lucky is showing a lack of understanding how to build a real life winner and not just win the statcast competition. 

 

As to the Braves vs Jays and playoff success year over year. . The Jays have not faced anywhere near the amount of injuries the Braves have, not to mention all our appearances since 2015 have been via the WC only…

 

[jaysblue]

1 hour ago, Brownie19 said:

To be fair - he traded for Soler (77 wRC+ with KC), Eddie Roserio (88 wRC+ with CLE) and Pederson (92 wRC+ with CHI) and magically, they all went on incredible runs as soon as they reached Atlanta.  He literally threw a bunch of s*** against the wall and it ALL stuck.

If wasn't an aggressive move at all and it probably fails 8 or 9 times out of 10.  He knew they weren't really that good, but, to his credit, he worked some low risk deals to see if he could strike lightning in a bottle - and he did.  Kudos to him, but Atlanta was VERY close to repeating what happened in the 90's.  One might suggest they still could if they don't find a way to win another WS over the next 4-5 years.

Atkins made a similar type move in 2023 adding DeJong, who had a 93 wRC+ at the time and that prick gave us a -76 wRC+ in Toronto LOL  (yes, Soler, Roserio and Pederson all had better track records and such).

Even though they lost Acuna to a season ACL injury, at least the Braves went out and did something. Guys like Soler, Rosario and Pederson were having down years, which made them easier to acquire. Like you said they had track records of being successful before. Adding them to the mix was better than just keeping the status quo, which is likely what this Jays front office would have done in that situation. 

The NL East that season was pretty weak and the Braves despite sitting at 44-45 were only 4.5GB behind the first place Mets. AA definitely made a calculated gamble, and it paid off. 

The 2021 Braves team was still pretty solid offensively: 

Riley: 5.1 WAR

Freeman: 4.7 WAR

Albies: 3.7 WAR

Swanson: 3.3 WAR

Add in bats like Soler, Rosario, Duvall and Pederson, definitely helped with the loss of Acuna.

On the pitching side, the Braves didn't look as good actually. Morton and Fried were their two top arms, along with Ian Anderson, Huascar Ynoa and Drew Smyly. Wasn't as strong of a rotation as we saw from them in 2022 and 2023. Bullpen wise, they had some solid years from Minter, Matzek and Luke Jackson. Will Smith, off the top of my head, I think was dominant in the Postseason I recall. 

Regardless, I would rather have a front office that is proactive. I don't think you should discredit AA at all during the 2021 season. 

[Spanky99]

wrong thread

[jaysblue]

2 hours ago, Stangstag said:

Makes you wish Atkins would have pushed a bit harder at the deadline in 2021/22/23.

Similar to the Indians trading for Miller at the 2016 deadline. If they don’t make that move they don’t make a deep run like they did.

Atkins tenure as GM can best be summarized as “what if”

Yeah especially in 2021 and before the trade deadline.

Even in 2022 and 2023, I kind of wish Atkins did a bit more to upgrade the roster in order to give them a better chance in the Postseason. Especially the 2023 team, which needed some power badly and which was evident all the way from April. 

You need to take advantage of windows when you have them. They don't last that long. Like seriously, 2021 doesn't seem like long ago, but when looking at the roster now, we look like we're so far away from getting to that point again. 

[Brownie19]

2 hours ago, Carlos Danger said:

You are leaving out Duval who I believe ended up being the NL RBI leader. A bonafide thumper and played plus OF/CF D. 

Rosario was hurt the whole year and everyone knew Solar was a better player than who he was in KC. Joc was used in the right situations where he thrived and the fact AA added 5 guys with RR from the Pirates at the deadline infused a lot of energy and motivation a la the 2015 Blue Jays.

You can’t just look at a snapshot of wRC+ when building a baseball Team. You have consistently being a slave to stat cast.

Comparing a snap shot of known power hitters to Dejong is comically absurd.

Point being, to discredit AA by basically saying he threw s*** at the wall and got lucky is showing a lack of understanding how to build a real life winner and not just win the statcast competition. 

Ah yes, forgot about Duvall - he did play well for them.

I wasn't trying to discredit him.  I think it was the right call in 2021.  They were at or just below .500 and had lost Acuna.  They had a great young core and were entering their contention window.  It wasn't the time to start giving up several top prospects to "go for it".  Instead, he made several low risk deals that didn't cost a lot of prospect capital to see if they could catch lightning in a bottle - and they did.  The players he got all previous success, but you can't pretend it was some given that they would all excel in Atlanta.  It was the right call given the situation and everything broke their way that year.

AA tried the same thing last year.  Acuna was hurt (again), Strider was hurt and several key players were having sh*tty seasons.  It wasn't the time to be super aggressive and trade the farm, so he went out and got Soler, signed Ramon Laureano, Gio Urshela, Harold Ramirez, Brian Anderson and Whit Merrifield.  This time, only some of the sh*t stuck (Soler and Laureano were great) - it was enough to scrap into the playoffs, but not enough to create the magic like in 2021.  That's perfectly fine - that approach isn't going to always work.

And DeJong is a streaky hitter who has pop (which we needed).  It's not the perfect example, but it's not far off.

[Delete_My_Account_Thanks]

3 hours ago, Brownie19 said:

To be fair - he traded for Soler (77 wRC+ with KC), Eddie Roserio (88 wRC+ with CLE) and Pederson (92 wRC+ with CHI) and magically, they all went on incredible runs as soon as they reached Atlanta.  He literally threw a bunch of s*** against the wall and it ALL stuck.

If wasn't an aggressive move at all and it probably fails 8 or 9 times out of 10.  He knew they weren't really that good, but, to his credit, he worked some low risk deals to see if he could strike lightning in a bottle - and he did.  Kudos to him, but Atlanta was VERY close to repeating what happened in the 90's.  One might suggest they still could if they don't find a way to win another WS over the next 4-5 years.

So let me get this straight:

When Anthopolous consistently makes the right moves, he's just getting lucky, but when Shapiro/Atkins consistently make the wrong moves, they're just unlucky?

That's ridiculous.

[Spanky99]

There's no doubt Anthopoulos is a boss GM now, he's improved immensely and he did hit a HR filling out the holes that were created by injury, to say their wasn't luck involved is just being disingenuous. He won a WS and got the job done, good for him and the Org, they were a wild watch in the '21 postseason, bitch slapped, LAD, lol.

[jaysblue]

6 hours ago, Vladdywagon said:

So let me get this straight:

When Anthopolous consistently makes the right moves, he's just getting lucky, but when Shapiro/Atkins consistently make the wrong moves, they're just unlucky?

That's ridiculous.

Pretty much yeah haha. 

[SuperFuzzBigMuff]

The Blue Jays are turning into the Raptors.