GDT- Rays @ Jays (Game 1/3) 7:07 ET

[BigCecil]

No way to expect Turner to carry a team

 

Agreed. His projection was 105. He has a wRC+ of 103 and been worth 0 WAR as a DH for $13M ARO. Kind of getting what they paid for.

[5ToolPhenom]

Justin Turner crashing into 40 year old reality after a hot start.

 

I was just looking at his stats the other night and was surprised by how fast they've cratered. He's a helluva ball-player but father time catches up with everyone eventually. Basically impossible to retain bat speed as you hit the big 40, especially now that we're out of the steroid era.

[Omar]

Agreed. His projection was 105. He has a wRC+ of 103 and been worth 0 WAR as a DH for $13M ARO. Kind of getting what they paid for.

 

Reality check. You're right. It's just that we're so desperate for twinkle of hope.

[5ToolPhenom]

Except this regime has gotten 9 friggin years to show their worth. Can't think of a longer runway for any management team with 0 playoff success in Jays history. If it wasn't for the expanded playoffs, Shatkins regime would have been kicked out long ago imo.

 

To their credit, they have put out some teams with solid records. But even as good as some of those teams were, they always felt a little underwhelming and were always missing key pieces.

 

Shapiro and Atkins were hyped for their ability to roll out sustainable rosters without ever needing to tear things down but I look at the system right now and I'm not seeing a whole lot to be excited about. Hard to imagine that these guys will be trusted with yet another rebuild so it looks like they're reaching the end of the road.

[leaffie]

I still remember when he came over here with Atkins, most of the board members here were simping for them lol.

 

Hindsight is 20/20 I guess...

 

Not me and I said it at time, and there were a few others. I couldnt stand Shapiro, thought he was an arrogant SOB

That kicked AA out the door

[Omar]

Justin Turner crashing into 40 year old reality after a hot start.

 

Can someone send out a search party for Turner's bat. He is in free fall.

 

Clearly the hitting coaches on this team have gotten to him.

 

the adrenalin of getting a contract has worn off, now he's just an old man

 

No way to expect Turner to carry a team

 

Agreed. His projection was 105. He has a wRC+ of 103 and been worth 0 WAR as a DH for $13M ARO. Kind of getting what they paid for.

 

Heartless bastards....the whole lot of you!

[Jays24]

To their credit, they have put out some teams with solid records. But even as good as some of those teams were, they always felt a little underwhelming and were always missing key pieces.

 

Shapiro and Atkins were hyped for their ability to roll out sustainable rosters without ever needing to tear things down but I look at the system right now and I'm not seeing a whole lot to be excited about. Hard to imagine that these guys will be trusted with yet another rebuild so it looks like they're reaching the end of the road.

 

Well said... their 2021/2022 teams were trending in the right direction but then pivoted towards their stupid "run prevention" strategy to the point of completely neglecting offense.

 

Now we're stuck with some of the last entertaining baseball I've been watching from a Jays team that's supposed to be "contending" at the moment.

[BigCecil]

Heartless bastards....the whole lot of you!

 

I love JT. Been a great ball player. Watched him for years and his career has been excellent.

 

But asking a 40 year old who didn't hit the fastball well in '23 to replace Belt and add increased thump to this line up in the 4 hole is a tall order.

[5ToolPhenom]

You can't coach crap tbh. How many of the Jays hitters are actually even that good. It's just a sad collection of offensive talent, which is something the entire baseball knew going into last offseason but Shatkins.

 

Good point. Any decent team has at least 1 big offensive beast that you wanna manage the pitching around, but Jays simply don't have that guy. They don't have that guy that you're counting down the lineup, anticipating when he'll be up again. So it's going to be pretty hard to win many games without any bonafide offensive threats.

[mikepelfrey]

How can a team win when the manager can’t even figure out a proper lineup? And the supposed 2 best players couldn’t buy a hit in a clutch situation if their lives depended on it. The GM and President are so removed from reality that the entire organization is rotting from the inside out. It’s time to clean house. Not even Ohtani would have changed it….its time to admit it. Burn it to the ground.

[BCZ]

lol ordures

[o2cui2i]

Heartless bastards....the whole lot of you!

 

I don't blame Turner. Age is what it is. I blame the Jays front office. When the jays were a top team, mid 80s until the two series titles, they had one of the biggest budgets in baseball. That's what it takes to compete, unless you're Tampa. The Tampa front office does more with less than any other team in baseball, and it's not even close. probably the best management group in baseball.

 

trying to keep a low budget, but still be competitive, doesn't work. They were willing to spend the GDP of a small country for Otani but wouldn't put that money into building on what they had after the deal didn't go through, they are getting what they paid for.

[Carlos Danger]

Atkins preparing for his presser tomorrow....

 

 

We will hear the team is battling and close games and just need some things to go our way and the projections are blah blah blah..

 

The thing is, it is not a SSS. It is since June of last year this team has been this way!!

[Jays24]

Good point. Any decent team has at least 1 big offensive beast that you wanna manage the pitching around, but Jays simply don't have that guy. They don't have that guy that you're counting down the lineup, anticipating when he'll be up again. So it's going to be pretty hard to win many games without any bonafide offensive threats.

 

There were many times where Edwin would carry the offense one month then Jose carry the offense next month. This team just doesn't have anyone and what pisses the fanbase off the most is that everyone knew this heading into this past offseason. Yet we came back with a worse offense on paper.

[CJ-Freeway]

I don't blame Turner. Age is what it is. I blame the Jays front office. When the jays were a top team, mid 80s until the two series titles, they had one of the biggest budgets in baseball. That's what it takes to compete, unless you're Tampa. The Tampa front office does more with less than any other team in baseball, and it's not even close. probably the best management group in baseball.

 

trying to keep a low budget, but still be competitive, doesn't work. They were willing to spend the GDP of a small country for Otani but wouldn't put that money into building on what they had after the deal didn't go through, they are getting what they paid for.

 

I agree, well said.

[Omar]

I don't blame Turner. Age is what it is. I blame the Jays front office. When the jays were a top team, mid 80s until the two series titles, they had one of the biggest budgets in baseball. That's what it takes to compete, unless you're Tampa. The Tampa front office does more with less than any other team in baseball, and it's not even close. probably the best management group in baseball.

 

trying to keep a low budget, but still be competitive, doesn't work. They were willing to spend the GDP of a small country for Otani but wouldn't put that money into building on what they had after the deal didn't go through, they are getting what they paid for.

 

Except the Jays are into Luxury Tax territory. They spent and the output is a last place team.

[hanton]

yea money is NOT the issue

[5ToolPhenom]

Well said... their 2021/2022 teams were trending in the right direction but then pivoted towards their stupid "run prevention" strategy to the point of completely neglecting offense.

 

Now we're stuck with some of the last entertaining baseball I've been watching from a Jays team that's supposed to be "contending" at the moment.

 

Amen, brother. It seems like it sucks even more than usual because we don't even have a hot prospect up with us to watch or anything.

 

We're barely halfway into May and the team is 5 games below 500 and already a whopping 10.5 games back of first and 9.5 games back from 2nd. Not a whole lot to be excited about or to tune in for.

[5ToolPhenom]

How can a team win when the manager can’t even figure out a proper lineup? And the supposed 2 best players couldn’t buy a hit in a clutch situation if their lives depended on it. The GM and President are so removed from reality that the entire organization is rotting from the inside out. It’s time to clean house. Not even Ohtani would have changed it….its time to admit it. Burn it to the ground.

 

That's what I'm confused about. It's clear to anyone who watches the team that Springer SHOULD NOT be leading off in the heart of the order. I'd blame John Schneider, but I'm always told on this forum that Schneider has nothing to do with it and that the lineups are constructed by a team of the brightest analytic minds. And if that's the case, WHAT DATA ARE THEY LOOKING AT!?!? Even if we're to chalk up his statistics to a small sample size, the eye test doesn't lie. He looks like crap.

 

So it's just very perplexing. I haven't heard any reasonable explanations.

[DigitalRock]

Pain… Schneider won’t last the season lol

[DigitalRock]

I don't blame Turner. Age is what it is. I blame the Jays front office. When the jays were a top team, mid 80s until the two series titles, they had one of the biggest budgets in baseball. That's what it takes to compete, unless you're Tampa. The Tampa front office does more with less than any other team in baseball, and it's not even close. probably the best management group in baseball.

 

trying to keep a low budget, but still be competitive, doesn't work. They were willing to spend the GDP of a small country for Otani but wouldn't put that money into building on what they had after the deal didn't go through, they are getting what they paid for.

 

The jays are into the luxury tax wtf are u talking about lol… money isn’t the issue.

[Stangstag]

Well said... their 2021/2022 teams were trending in the right direction but then pivoted towards their stupid "run prevention" strategy to the point of completely neglecting offense.

 

Now we're stuck with some of the last entertaining baseball I've been watching from a Jays team that's supposed to be "contending" at the moment.

 

What losing an 8-1 lead does to a MF

[glory]

What losing an 8-1 lead does to a MF

 

That's the sad part. If the Jays hold on to win Game 2 (which they should have), then who knows what the trajectory of this franchise would have been. Maybe they win Game 3 and then lose to the Astros, but in that scenario they may not have been eager to change the direction of the team so drastically. The 2022 team had the 3rd best record in the AL. It was a really good team even with the pitching and defensive warts. They could have cleaned those things up without making it the most boring vanilla "need 4 singles to score 1 run" team in baseball. The 2023 and now 2024 seasons have been the most frustrating Jays seasons I can recall watching.

 

I really don't want this team within striking distance in July. This is a bad team in just about every objective metric. Even if they don't start a rebuild this July, a bad season has to at least cause some change within the org.

[Stangstag]

That's the sad part. If the Jays hold on to win Game 2 (which they should have), then who knows what the trajectory of this franchise would have been. Maybe they win Game 3 and then lose to the Astros, but in that scenario they may not have been eager to change the direction of the team so drastically. The 2022 team had the 3rd best record in the AL. It was a really good team even with the pitching and defensive warts. They could have cleaned those things up without making it the most boring vanilla "need 4 singles to score 1 run" team in baseball. The 2023 and now 2024 seasons have been the most frustrating Jays seasons I can recall watching.

 

I really don't want this team within striking distance in July. This is a bad team in just about every objective metric. Even if they don't start a rebuild this July, a bad season has to at least cause some change within the org.

 

Imagine if we had a manager capable of utilizing his elite run prevention assets off the bench in an 8-1 game.

 

Why JBJ remained on the bench in favor of Tapia is absolutely beyond me.

[wilko]

Atkins preparing for his presser tomorrow....

 

 

 

I hope he's there to fire himself.

[M.E.]

They won't press Atkins. Likely to kiss his ass and swallow his BS agenda while he never says anything that has any real meaning.

[wilko]

They couldn't beat a garbage pitcher throwing s***** off-speed stuff with an above 5 ERA.

[Eat My Shatkins]

There were many times where Edwin would carry the offense one month then Jose carry the offense next month. This team just doesn't have anyone and what pisses the fanbase off the most is that everyone knew this heading into this past offseason. Yet we came back with a worse offense on paper.

 

Yeah the Jays should have offered Ohtani 1.5 billion to get him to pick the Jays and they should have given up their top 5 prospects for one year of Soto.

 

They also should have offered Soler 3 years 50 million and brought his 94 wRC+ and 0 fWAR to the Jays.

 

They also should have given Chapman 5 years 100 million and kept his 70 wRC+ and 0.1 fWAR around.

 

I mean what a bunch of idiots. They had to have known that a quarter of the way into the season that Bo, Springer and Kirk would all have OPS's in the .500's and like 5 home runs combined right?

 

Dumbasses lol

[Eat My Shatkins]

What the Jays should have done is bring back the beastly trio of EE, Joey's Bats and Josh motherf***in Donaldson because I bet even those guys would have OPS's in the .600s at least.

[Olerud363]

Yeah the Jays should have offered Ohtani 1.5 billion to get him to pick the Jays and they should have given up their top 5 prospects for one year of Soto.

 

They also should have offered Soler 3 years 50 million and brought his 94 wRC+ and 0 fWAR to the Jays.

 

They also should have given Chapman 5 years 100 million and kept his 70 wRC+ and 0.1 fWAR around.

 

I mean what a bunch of idiots. They had to have known that a quarter of the way into the season that Bo, Springer and Kirk would all have OPS's in the .500's and like 5 home runs combined right?

 

Dumbasses lol

 

I don't think anybody is complaining about not signing Chapman, Soler, etc.

 

Shapiro and Atkins are dumbasses because...

 

a) they have several minor league players who look great yet they block Howritz and Barger with Turner and Biggio. Schneider looks great up here, so you wonder how Barger and Howritz will translate.

they have several collapses which as you keep mentioning can't be 'predicted'. Exactly. Jays are behind the times somehow in game prep and hitting approach which has led in part to these collapses.