Is the window closing for Atkins and Shapiro?

[BatFlip]

Yeah it’s baffling that the FO is prioritizing IKF and KK over Clement and Schneider so far. They need to use these next couple of years to try to break in as many prospects as they can and hope they stick. If they don’t have the appetite for that and would prefer a vetrin, then it’s going to be harder to develop significant internal options by 2026. Like, Orelvis has the highest upside of the near ready prospects but he seems like someone who will take some time to adjust to big league pitching. If they don’t want to play DS who has done nothing but kill MLB pitching then it’s hard to envision them having patience with others. I guess we will see. I think there’s a real chance IKF is so bad that they eventually cave and use him as a bench player. KK is more hit or miss.

 

It would be a godsend for the team's payroll if Schneider and Clement can even be slightly above average regulars.

 

I'm not as cynical as some of the others here, I think these guys will get a decent shake this year to prove themselves. Just wish we didn't have IKF soaking up at bats as I suspect he'll still get at least 400.

 

I would have preferred to not sign IKF and just keep Espinal as he'd be way less likely to block these young bucks.

[Eat My Shatkins]

I think Vlad & Bo both get traded before the start of next season, and honestly their 4-5 combined fWAR likely won't be that hard to replace for cheaper than what it'd cost to keep them.

[G-Snarls]

Also I'm not sure Rogers is going to continue to pay 200M a year in payroll if the team doesn't go on a playoff run/have a division contending team.

 

Depends

 

Are they making similar or more money than the tear down years after AA left?

[Terminator]

I think Vlad & Bo both get traded before the start of next season, and honestly their 4-5 combined fWAR likely won't be that hard to replace for cheaper than what it'd cost to keep them.

 

Will be interesting to see what happens.

 

They could keep them for one more year while also signing a big time FA like Bregman or something and really try and go for it in their final year. Then let them walk while a guy like Bregman fills their salary and then go forward from there.

 

Hard to see a total teardown unless Rogers directs it at which point I think Atkins is gone and a different GM rebuilds.

[Stangstag]

Will be interesting to see what happens.

 

They could keep them for one more year while also signing a big time FA like Bregman or something and really try and go for it in their final year. Then let them walk while a guy like Bregman fills their salary and then go forward from there.

 

Hard to see a total teardown unless Rogers directs it at which point I think Atkins is gone and a different GM rebuilds.

 

If they don't make a big splash next year while holding onto both Bo/Vlad, I really don't know what to say. I for sure thought they would sign someone like Bellinger this year but they didn't.

 

Feels like we're wasting a very solid roster by patching the holes with glove-first guys like KK and IKF.

[Laika]

The Giants are probably the competitive team with the worst situation at shortstop. I wonder what they would give up for Bo right now.

[wilko]

The Giants are probably the competitive team with the worst situation at shortstop. I wonder what they would give up for Bo right now.

 

Chapman.

[jaysblue]

Feels like we're wasting a very solid roster by patching the holes with glove-first guys like KK and IKF.

 

I've been saying this about Atkins and the FO since 2021, though in regards to different areas of the roster. Now it's patching up the roster with glove-first guys like KK and IKF rather than address the real issue which is the offense.

[Stangstag]

I've been saying this about Atkins and the FO since 2021, though in regards to different areas of the roster. Now it's patching up the roster with glove-first guys like KK and IKF rather than address the real issue which is the offense.

 

I want our 2021 offense back

[jaysblue]

I want our 2021 offense back

 

One of the best lineups and that team was so much fun to watch. I still think the 2021 team was the best team Atkins assembled. It's a shame that season went to waste.

[connorp]

The Giants are probably the competitive team with the worst situation at shortstop. I wonder what they would give up for Bo right now.

 

Luciano already getting the Bart label? Haven’t noticed

[connorp]

Hmm. Yeah, rough start. I was never a prospect fan

 

Edit: whoops. That was last years ABs. Didn’t even make the team

[Stangstag]

Luciano already getting the Bart label? Haven’t noticed

 

Nah but there’s questions about his D and they might be moving him to the OF

[BaseballIsLife]

I think this regime has done an adequate job to this point but it’s disappointing to see other teams passing them in various areas that involve getting the most out of your players. I only see this getting worse. Times pass you by quickly in baseball these days. Even teams like the Tigers are starting to look to have brighter future than Toronto.

[Olerud363]

One of the best lineups and that team was so much fun to watch. I still think the 2021 team was the best team Atkins assembled. It's a shame that season went to waste.

 

2021 team was a mirage caused by little advanced scouting and data crunching during Covid. Ran up some run differential early because of this, Vladdy looked good (he was facing New Hampshire level advanced scouting and data crunching).

 

2021 Jays had a playoff spot 1.5 games ahead of Yankees with 2 weeks to go, they sent some advance scouts and then the Rays/Yankees and even Twins dealt with that team with ease.

[Olerud363]

You need guys like Clement, Schneider, and Horwitz filling holes for cheap yet the front office refuses to let them play.

 

It's pretty amazing. The backbone of the 2015 Jays were unheralded guys given a chance. As much as we didn't like AA sometimes, looking back he was great at giving guys chances. Starting with Bautista, then EE, Pompey, Goins, Pillar, Travis, Osuna, Norris, Miguel Castro. Not that they all worked out, but he was great at giving guys, who hadn't yet established themselves a job and sorting through them.

 

Josh Donaldson was also in that class but developed by the As. Like at 25 looked just like 5 current Jays prospects as they approach 25.

[Olerud363]

I think this regime has done an adequate job to this point but it’s disappointing to see other teams passing them in various areas that involve getting the most out of your players. I only see this getting worse. Times pass you by quickly in baseball these days. Even teams like the Tigers are starting to look to have brighter future than Toronto.

 

 

Seems to they are always behind in the data analysis and adjustment war. Would love to see some research on whether some magical 'hitting tips' really exist.

 

What I mean is, take Gio Urshella. He goes to the Yankees and all of a sudden is great. Did he get magic 2019 Yankee hitting tips? By 2023 the Yankees didn't really have any magic anymore. Did other teams catch up?

 

In the 1980s Bill James, an early adapter to computer PC technology, started simulating thousands of baseball seasons with like MS-Dos basic or something, and found out that given enough time players like Wade Boggs would hit .400, but also some years hit .250, and this wasn't far off from the real Boggs (after a string of batting titles randomly hit .250 for one year for no apparent reason).

 

So everything we see (good Vlad, bad Vlad) could be explained by just random chance if over the entirety of baseball, good and bad seasons occur with the expectations they would in a simulation. If good and bad seasons occur more often then expected then I guess there is something else explaining it. Which would be either injuries or 'hitting tips'.

 

You get the right 'hitting tips' and it changes your life. In the pregame they were talking about this with Justin Turner. He was like a 2 homer guy, Marlyn Bird gave him some hitting tips, then Turner started hitting 2 homers a series with the awesome Marlyn Bird hitting tip.

[Spanky99]

Seems to they are always behind in the data analysis and adjustment war. Would love to see some research on whether some magical 'hitting tips' really exist.

 

What I mean is, take Gio Urshella. He goes to the Yankees and all of a sudden is great. Did he get magic 2019 Yankee hitting tips? By 2023 the Yankees didn't really have any magic anymore. Did other teams catch up?

 

In the 1980s Bill James, an early adapter to computer PC technology, started simulating thousands of baseball seasons with like MS-Dos basic or something, and found out that given enough time players like Wade Boggs would hit .400, but also some years hit .250, and this wasn't far off from the real Boggs (after a string of batting titles randomly hit .250 for one year for no apparent reason).

 

So everything we see (good Vlad, bad Vlad) could be explained by just random chance if over the entirety of baseball, good and bad seasons occur with the expectations they would in a simulation. If good and bad seasons occur more often then expected then I guess there is something else explaining it. Which would be either injuries or 'hitting tips'.

 

You get the right 'hitting tips' and it changes your life. In the pregame they were talking about this with Justin Turner. He was like a 2 homer guy, Marlyn Bird gave him some hitting tips, then Turner started hitting 2 homers a series with the awesome Marlyn Bird hitting tip.

 

Hahahah... well done, Olerud.

[BigCecil]

Getting there quickly now. They already fired 1 hand picked Manager playing that card. We could do much worse and they have put a relatively competitive team on the field since 2020.

 

But after 8 years we have a very expensive, old team with disappointing success in player development that has significant impact at the MLB level.

 

Snapshot in time (as it is with all team's rankings) has our farm 18-20 dropping to 23-25 if Ricky comes up. Not impressive.

 

Yes we have renos and cup holders now, but I'd go to games in Exhibition Stadium if we had a great team and sustainable winner.

 

All is not lost. This is a big year for them and how they handle whether its a run or they move major assets because we flop, it will be jugular for them.

[hanton]

Seems to they are always behind in the data analysis and adjustment war. Would love to see some research on whether some magical 'hitting tips' really exist.

 

What I mean is, take Gio Urshella. He goes to the Yankees and all of a sudden is great. Did he get magic 2019 Yankee hitting tips? By 2023 the Yankees didn't really have any magic anymore. Did other teams catch up?

 

In the 1980s Bill James, an early adapter to computer PC technology, started simulating thousands of baseball seasons with like MS-Dos basic or something, and found out that given enough time players like Wade Boggs would hit .400, but also some years hit .250, and this wasn't far off from the real Boggs (after a string of batting titles randomly hit .250 for one year for no apparent reason).

 

So everything we see (good Vlad, bad Vlad) could be explained by just random chance if over the entirety of baseball, good and bad seasons occur with the expectations they would in a simulation. If good and bad seasons occur more often then expected then I guess there is something else explaining it. Which would be either injuries or 'hitting tips'.

 

You get the right 'hitting tips' and it changes your life. In the pregame they were talking about this with Justin Turner. He was like a 2 homer guy, Marlyn Bird gave him some hitting tips, then Turner started hitting 2 homers a series with the awesome Marlyn Bird hitting tip.

 

Interesting, do you have a source for this? ok is there any truth to this lol

[tazsub3]

If I am anything to go by, Rogers rating should feel the rating heat soon.

A die hard jays ran that used to avg watched 4-5 full games a week , 2 weeks into the season can’t get myself to watch a single game ! I tried … just nothing I like about that team . From top to bottom . In the past I watched way worst teams but had interest in players , their stats , their performance on the day … this team has no soul

[HomeRunHomer]

I could see it. In sports if you build a team with the hopes of winning by playing a solid defensive game you better actually be winning because if not it's often a terrible product to watch.

 

Do you want to watch outfielders turn every fly ball into a routine catch or do you want to watch 'em sock some dingers?

Edited April 8, 2024 by HomeRunHomer

[BaseballIsLife]

If I am anything to go by, Rogers rating should feel the rating heat soon.

A die hard jays ran that used to avg watched 4-5 full games a week , 2 weeks into the season can’t get myself to watch a single game ! I tried … just nothing I like about that team . From top to bottom . In the past I watched way worst teams but had interest in players , their stats , their performance on the day … this team has no soul

 

The team is boring and they have the worst telecast in the majors with Buck and Hazel. Schulman also seems more cheerleader esque lately. I watch a couple games a week on mute but I usually watch many different teams almost every day. Toronto is often not one of those teams the last couple years. Haven’t been to the dome in 15 years and don’t plan to with skyrocketing prices.

[CrackerJack]

There is only about 38,000 seats in the Rogers Centre now, and the home opener is not quite a sell out (at this moment) … you can still get 7 seats in a row in the lower bowl. (And they sold a lot of home opener tickets during the “Ohtani is on a plane to Toronto” frenzy and that’s probably why they didn’t tell one of their Sportsnet mouthpieces to quell the rumours about that.) So how embarrassing will it be to see a nearly half empty shiny splashy stadium for quite a few games this season?

[Jays333]

I know of 3 people within my work group and friends group who have already cancelled their sportsnet streaming service because this looks like the exact same boring ass go through the motions team as last year but worse.

[BaseballIsLife]

There is only about 38,000 seats in the Rogers Centre now, and the home opener is not quite a sell out (at this moment) … you can still get 7 seats in a row in the lower bowl. (And they sold a lot of home opener tickets during the “Ohtani is on a plane to Toronto” frenzy and that’s probably why they didn’t tell one of their Sportsnet mouthpieces to quell the rumours about that.) So how embarrassing will it be to see a nearly half empty shiny splashy stadium for quite a few games this season?

 

As long as their bottom line targets are met, I doubt anyone in the office cares about empty seats.

[G-Snarls]

Anyone else expecting a slightly mixed/ tepid response from the crowd when Vladdy is announced tonight?

[The_DH]

Anyone else expecting a slightly mixed/ tepid response from the crowd when Vladdy is announced tonight?

 

there should be some reaction but it'll be small

[Brownie19]

I know of 3 people within my work group and friends group who have already cancelled their sportsnet streaming service because this looks like the exact same boring ass go through the motions team as last year but worse.

 

3 people? I better sell my Rogers stock!

[wilko]

There is only about 38,000 seats in the Rogers Centre now, and the home opener is not quite a sell out (at this moment) … you can still get 7 seats in a row in the lower bowl. (And they sold a lot of home opener tickets during the “Ohtani is on a plane to Toronto” frenzy and that’s probably why they didn’t tell one of their Sportsnet mouthpieces to quell the rumours about that.) So how embarrassing will it be to see a nearly half empty shiny splashy stadium for quite a few games this season?

 

Ahh, you again.