Around Baseball 2024

[Jimcanuck]

Yup its all ******** and completely goes against what competitive balance is all about.

 

And its the f***ing Dodgers doing this on pretty much every free agent they sign. Sofly circumventing the spirit of the rules.

 

f*** them

 

It's not circumventing the rules. It's following the rules.

 

If the Jays did this you would be praising their ingenuity.

[Stangstag]

It's not circumventing the rules. It's following the rules.

 

If the Jays did this you would be praising their ingenuity.

 

I’d still expect this to be a major point of contention in the next CBA negotiations.

 

Owners will want to get rid of it because the contracts are starting to balloon out of control, but the players will want to keep it.

 

Whether you like it or not, whether you agree with it or not, the Dodgers are getting away with having a smaller number on the books for luxury tax calculations. That’s an indisputable fact.

 

I know its been “part of the rules all along”, but no team has leveraged this loophole nearly as much as the Dodgers the past couple offseasons.

[Spanky__99]

I’d still expect this to be a major point of contention in the next CBA negotiations.

 

Owners will want to get rid of it because the contracts are starting to balloon out of control, but the players will want to keep it.

 

Whether you like it or not, whether you agree with it or not, the Dodgers are getting away with having a smaller number on the books for luxury tax calculations. That’s an indisputable fact.

 

I know its been “part of the rules all along”, but no team has leveraged this loophole nearly as much as the Dodgers the past couple offseasons.

 

Is it though, I haven't seen anything to make this a fact? The Dodgers since being bought in 2013 have spent over half a billion over the next pleb team in 2nd since, lmao.

[glory]

The way I understood it is there isn't really some major loophole when deferring money or paying signing bonuses. It all gets captured in the luxury tax calculations. Deferring money just helps the team finance the deals better and now a large signing bonus gets the agent their money sooner (as they don't get their cut on the deferred money until it's paid).

 

I don't think this setup is giving the Dodgers an advantage that other teams can't also implement. It's just the Dodgers have more money to spend than most teams. Am I missing something? I don't see this as a major CBA sticking point.

 

Yeah this rule isn’t exclusive to the Dodgers. Every MLB team is free to do it. The Dodgers just have star players that want to play for them and are willing to defer money while other teams likely don’t have that kind of impact with players. I don’t see this as a big CBA issue.

 

If the Jays gave Vlad $500m and deferred the hell out of it, then it would be the same thing, though Vlad would have to agree to that. They should probably try something like that.

[Brownie19]

I’d still expect this to be a major point of contention in the next CBA negotiations.

 

Owners will want to get rid of it because the contracts are starting to balloon out of control, but the players will want to keep it.

 

Whether you like it or not, whether you agree with it or not, the Dodgers are getting away with having a smaller number on the books for luxury tax calculations. That’s an indisputable fact.

 

I know its been “part of the rules all along”, but no team has leveraged this loophole nearly as much as the Dodgers the past couple offseasons.

 

I don't believe that's true...

[BTS]

I don't believe that's true...

 

There are two possible stances here:

 

1. The luxury tax hit should reflect the total dollar amount a contract will pay out.

2. The luxury tax hit should reflect the actual present day value of the contract, accounting for any deferrals.

 

Stang seems to believe that 1. is the case. MLB and the PA have agreed that 2. is the case.

 

I personally think 2. makes a lot more sense than 1.

[Brownie19]

There are two possible stances here:

 

1. The luxury tax hit should reflect the total dollar amount a contract will pay out.

2. The luxury tax hit should reflect the actual present day value of the contract, accounting for any deferrals.

 

Stang seems to believe that 1. is the case. MLB and the PA have agreed that 2. is the case.

 

I personally think 2. makes a lot more sense than 1.

 

Agreed. I don't see the issue.

[Spanky__99]

There are two possible stances here:

 

1. The luxury tax hit should reflect the total dollar amount a contract will pay out.

2. The luxury tax hit should reflect the actual present day value of the contract, accounting for any deferrals.

 

Stang seems to believe that 1. is the case. MLB and the PA have agreed that 2. is the case.

 

I personally think 2. makes a lot more sense than 1.

 

An MLBTR member was saying last night that the Dodgers original deferral with Ohtani has opened up a wide envelope for the Dodgers to do this for years, because of what he signed on his contract originally 2M per year, and that's the loophole? Sounds far-fetched, but IDK, I believe the PDV makes sense as well in this scenario.

[L54]

I hope the Dodgers sign Soto too

[metafour]

I hope the Dodgers sign Soto too

 

I hope our team becomes the AAA affiliate of the Dodgers!

[L54]

I hope our team becomes the AAA affiliate of the Dodgers!

 

Maybe they can trade FF and sign Vlad next offseason

[L54]

With deferred money, of course

[Brownie19]

Dodgers SP depth, lmao...

 

Blake Snell, Yoshinobu Yamamoto, Shohei Ohtani, Tyler Glasnow, Roki Sasaki, Clayton Kershaw, Tony Gonsolin, Dustin May and Emmet Sheehan

 

Not even counting the guys that have debuted and are waiting in the wings in the minors.

 

Is this finally the year the Dodgers don't resign Kershaw? Does he retire?

[Dick_Pole]

I hope the Dodgers sign Soto too

 

In a way, it's a good consolation prize for the Jays. Stack the NL as much as possible. Make the playoffs in the easier AL. Hope you 1987 Twins your way to a World Series as all the stacked teams beat up on each other.

[Dick_Pole]

Hernandez's comparable isn't Sabathia, it's Stieb. In terms of counting stats, peak and early career end. Ignoring 1998 and adjusting for each pitcher's era for strikeout rate. So if Hernandez gets ousted early, at least that keeps the bar relatively consistent across eras.

 

I guess you could say Sabathia is Hernandez's Jack Morris, if you go by the former having more playoff success, longer tenure and a bigger name.

[G-Snarls]

The Mets announced Wednesday that they’ve signed left-handed reliever Genesis Cabrera to a minor league contract with an invitation to major league spring training.

[Jimcanuck]

Is this finally the year the Dodgers don't resign Kershaw? Does he retire?

 

I hope he retires. Its getting a bit painful

[G-Snarls]

Need a whole new bullpen up in here

[BTS]

The Mets announced Wednesday that they’ve signed left-handed reliever Genesis Cabrera to a minor league contract with an invitation to major league spring training.

 

I did not enjoy his tenure as a Toronto Blue Jay

[Stangstag]

I did not enjoy his tenure as a Toronto Blue Jay

 

He was kinda good the first half-year we acquired him.

[Masterbather]

I did not enjoy his tenure as a Toronto Blue Jay

 

Definitely. I was worried that maybe they had convinced themselves that he was worth keeping around, but thankfully not.

 

But it is yet another hole in a team that seems to be digging more holes and filling none.

[Pendleton]

[G-Snarls]

Dodgers payroll isn't even all that crazy (yet!)

 

-

 

[BTS]

 

Heyman is so worthless. "Bonus doesn't count against CBT number" is just false reporting.

[Terminator]

Dodgers payroll isn't even all that crazy (yet!)

 

-

 

Those numbers are nearly worthless. Ohtani is listed at 2 mil but the actual number is about 46 million.

[G-Snarls]

Those numbers are nearly worthless. Ohtani is listed at 2 mil but the actual number is about 46 million.

 

I realized something was up when I posted part 2. No relation to CBT threshold either.

[jaysblue]

I thought you were championing Blake Snell?

 

Sure, I preferred him over Max Fried and if the Jays had an unlimited payroll, sure thing! I was expecting more around $150M for Snell. If he signed for a total of $182M with the Dodgers, it would have likely cost the Jays $200M to have him sign here. He wasn't going to sign for the same amount with the Blue Jays durh.

[Terminator]

Sure, I preferred him over Max Fried and if the Jays had an unlimited payroll, sure thing! I was expecting more around $150M for Snell. If he signed for a total of $182M with the Dodgers, it would have likely cost the Jays $200M to have him sign here. He wasn't going to sign for the same amount with the Blue Jays durh.

 

Yeah the Snell deal is a good bit better than his projections. After factoring in the deferrals and everything it's 5 years and 34.3 per year. I'd be hesistant at that price as it is but to beat the Dodgers we'd probably need to throw in another year or up the AAV 5+ mil.

 

I was beating the Snell drum as loud as anyone (and once again I am totally vindicated as the best franchise in sports was thinking similarly) but if we are going to spend THAT much money, I'd rather just go and get someone safer like Adames who projects for the same amount of WAR but has less risk since he's 3 years younger and a hitter.

[John_Havok]

Yes, well that's CBA s*** I don't care to bother getting into. I'm pretty sure other teams can defer money if they want, from the Ohtani thread last year I remember his money was 700M that came out to be around 475M, IIRC.

 

You're right that every team can defer salary if they want to, and anyone who's been here a while knows I'm no fan of the small market billionaires pocketing all their revenue sharing and pretending they cant afford to ever spend money on free agents.

 

However, to say that every team has the the ability to take advantage of deferrals and massive signing bonuses in the same way the Dodgers currently are, is wrong. Yes, billionaires own all the teams in baseball but, that doesn't mean all their revenue streams are equal. Every team in baseball cant afford to run 300+ million payrols with massive deferrals.

 

It's clear the Dodgers are circumventing the CBT in creative ways and are within the current CBA so ya can't really fault them for it. But ya can look at at it and say "Hang on, that's not what these rules were intended for, you're clearly breaking the spirit of the the rules" and watch them make rules in the next CBA that will prevent it. Easy ways to fix the current mess, is that signing bonuses count against the CBT, and cap both the % you can defer on a contract and the # of deferred contracts you have. It's a simple fix.

 

'Just like the NHL is doing with the LTIR rules, and limiting the # of salary retention contracts you can have on the books to ensure teams like Vegas cannot keep obviously screwing with it, and Tampa before them. To be fair though, Tampa was greasy, but Vegas took it to an entirely new level of horseshit.

 

But, on the flip side, MLB has to figure out how to convince all these cry poor owners that the practice of taking revenue sharing and rarely reinvesting it in their teams payrolls is also ********. It doesn't have to be a case of every team being able to sign any player every year, but somewhere in the middle would be great

[Terminator]

They aren’t circumventing the CBA with deferrals and signing bonuses. The CBA accounts for that.

 

The only thing they are circumventing is CA state income tax.