General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[Terminator]

Right I agree with this, the problem is that I think Vlad is way overvaluing himself right now. What’s market value? Because I don’t think Vlad should get over 300. But maybe for him, the number is 400.

 

This may just need to play out in free agency next year

 

I'm fine with letting both enter free agency. With the big market spenders looking to blow their load this year, I think next offseason will be a buyer's market. As for trades at the deadline, if the Jays are out of it, it'll be because they both performed poorly and the return will be s***. Bichette's 5 WAR decline is the reason why the Jays didn't compete for a playoff spot this year.

 

I'm starting to come back around to this line of thinking. If Vlad isn't going to play ball with us at all, then we shouldn't extend him. If you think about it, we could simply sign someone like Bregman for 180 million which would be roughly HALF of what Vlad is presumably looking to get. I'm not sure that he's half the player either.

 

I still think I'm in for Devers money, and perhaps I'd pay a little more for inflation. But if he wants anything more than that I pass.

[Stangstag]

I'm starting to come back around to this line of thinking. If Vlad isn't going to play ball with us at all, then we shouldn't extend him. If you think about it, we could simply sign someone like Bregman for 180 million which would be roughly HALF of what Vlad is presumably looking to get. I'm not sure that he's half the player either.

 

I still think I'm in for Devers money, and perhaps I'd pay a little more for inflation. But if he wants anything more than that I pass.

 

Right.

 

As it stands, we don’t know what number has been offered by the Jays. If they’re offering 200 mil then that’s too low and makes sense why Vlad is passing. If they’ve offered him 300 and he’s still not accepting, then f*** him

[glory]

Right.

 

As it stands, we don’t know what number has been offered by the Jays. If they’re offering 200 mil then that’s too low and makes sense why Vlad is passing. If they’ve offered him 300 and he’s still not accepting, then f*** him

 

Realistically, he's going to get $30M in his final year of arb. That AAV alone on a 12 year deal (for example) would be $360m. If his AAV ask is more in the $35-40m range, then his overall ask is likely more than $400m at this point, and he's likely wiling to wait for what Soto gets to determine how much more he thinks he can get.

[Barrelsandbombs]

Jays hire Marc Tramuta as their new scouting director.

 

[John_Havok]

Vlad wins the 1b Silver Slugger. All but guaranteed a 30m final arb contract now.

[Spanky99]

Vlad wins the 1b Silver Slugger. All but guaranteed a 30m final arb contract now.

 

He was by far the best bat in MLB at 1B, he was a shoo in. Hah!

[Jonn]

Jays lost Matt Hauge to the Pirates. Might be a massive loss.

[John_Havok]

Jays lost Matt Hauge to the Pirates. Might be a massive loss.

 

Yeah just saw this. Unfortunate, but would be a real bitch move to not let a guy seek a promotion.

[Brownie19]

Jays lost Matt Hauge to the Pirates. Might be a massive loss.

 

Cancel the parade.

[Omar]

I'm starting to come back around to this line of thinking. If Vlad isn't going to play ball with us at all, then we shouldn't extend him. If you think about it, we could simply sign someone like Bregman for 180 million which would be roughly HALF of what Vlad is presumably looking to get. I'm not sure that he's half the player either.

 

I still think I'm in for Devers money, and perhaps I'd pay a little more for inflation. But if he wants anything more than that I pass.

 

Right.

 

As it stands, we don’t know what number has been offered by the Jays. If they’re offering 200 mil then that’s too low and makes sense why Vlad is passing. If they’ve offered him 300 and he’s still not accepting, then f*** him

 

That's fine. As long as you don't complain that he isn't wearing a Blue Jays cap when he goes into Cooperstown.

[Stangstag]

That's fine. As long as you don't complain that he isn't wearing a Blue Jays cap when he goes into Cooperstown.

 

I honestly don’t give a f***. Give me a competitive team and a championship over sentimental BS like signing Vlad 4 lyfe.

 

Imagine if AA had caved to Bautista’s outrageous demands that time in 2016. I see Vlad as a similar landmine/potential disaster.

[max silver]

I honestly don’t give a f***. Give me a competitive team and a championship over sentimental BS like signing Vlad 4 lyfe.

 

Imagine if AA had caved to Bautista’s outrageous demands that time in 2016. I see Vlad as a similar landmine/potential disaster.

 

Except Bautista was 10 years older than Vlad at that point and already declining.

[Spanky99]

Bad comp, dude, lmao.

[Stangstag]

Except Bautista was 10 years older than Vlad at that point and already declining.

 

Bautista also had a much better track record of sustained success.

 

Anyways yeah the comparison isn’t perfect, but my point is that if Vlad is demanding the moon right now then we might as well wait til he’s a free agent.

 

The whole point of an extension is that there’s risk on both sides. Right now its seeming like Vlad wants free agent dollars.

[Omar]

Bautista also had a much better track record of sustained success.

 

Anyways yeah the comparison isn’t perfect, but my point is that if Vlad is demanding the moon right now then we might as well wait til he’s a free agent.

 

The whole point of an extension is that there’s risk on both sides. Right now its seeming like Vlad wants free agent dollars.

 

The ability to sign a potential HOF player in his prime comes by once a generation for a team (if they're lucky!). I don't have to tell you that there is nothing on the horizon that will be impactful. And the ability of this team to attract big name players will hinge on their competitiveness in the forthcoming years. This org really has no choice but to break the bank. They aren't bringing in waves of talent as was promised so this has become their only option. They can't screw it up....(famous last words).

[jaysblue]

Bautista also stated that he felt like he should be paid for giving the organization a discount when he signed his first extension. So he even knew he wasn't likely worth the money he was asking, but felt like the organization owed him one. Glad AA and even Shapiro/Atkins never caved in giving into his demands.

[Key22]

I think you have to build a better lineup than having all your money in one player.

 

The problem with Vlad and even Soto is that you are paying huge money for somewhat one-dimensional players. Neither is good defensively, and neither can run well. You are paying for a bat. Soto is an elite bat - is Vladdy? maybe.

 

But for similar dollars and fewer years, you could sign Santander, Alonso/Henandez, and maybe Adames. Move Bo to 2b. Then next year if Vlad leaves and Bo leaves - you still have those three guys and you can add.

 

I can't really see the Jays wanting to pay Vlad $400m when Freddie Freeman is a FAR better player and signed for a little over half that. I know ages and all - but so what - older guys you can sign for fewer years and fewer years means less of an albatross if things go badly.

 

The Dodgers were largely better than the Yankees because they had far more depth 1-9 - everyone in their line-up can hit - while the Yankees have arguably 4 bats.

 

When I see fans here making out the line-up with Springer batting 5th - it's meh. He should be no higher than 7th with Kirk (at best) 8th, and Varsho 9th. That's not too bad for the bottom of the order. In fact, if it were not for his contract, they would be happy to replace him with Hernandez (oops) or Santander.

 

I can see paying Soto because he is maybe the best hitter in baseball and you can live with him in the OF, preferably LF to avoid exposing his noodle arm.

[Spanky99]

If they sign Soto, the Jays will be certainly going big in payroll, they'd plug most of their holes. C'mon...

[Jays24]

If they sign Soto, the Jays will be certainly going big in payroll, they'd plug most of their holes. C'mon...

 

Ya it would be pretty stupid to spend that money much longer term and then leave all other holes such as the bullpen and one more hitter at 2B/3B.

[Nexii]

Are bat-only players like Vlad really more risk? I feel like offense has less variance than defensive stats year to year. Same with age-related decline. Wonder if its something Fangraphs or other nerds have looked into

[Spanky99]

Are bat-only players like Vlad really more risk? I feel like offense has less variance than defensive stats year to year. Same with age-related decline. Wonder if its something Fangraphs or other nerds have looked into

 

I believe I've come across an aging curve graph by position on here before. I'm sure it's out there.

[gruber92]

The ability to sign a potential HOF player in his prime comes by once a generation for a team (if they're lucky!). I don't have to tell you that there is nothing on the horizon that will be impactful. And the ability of this team to attract big name players will hinge on their competitiveness in the forthcoming years. This org really has no choice but to break the bank. They aren't bringing in waves of talent as was promised so this has become their only option. They can't screw it up....(famous last words).

 

They've already screwed it up big time. At this point, it's all about Shatkins continuously duping Rogers. What a f***ing shame.

[John_Havok]

I think you have to build a better lineup than having all your money in one player.

 

The problem with Vlad and even Soto is that you are paying huge money for somewhat one-dimensional players. Neither is good defensively, and neither can run well. You are paying for a bat. Soto is an elite bat - is Vladdy? maybe.

 

But for similar dollars and fewer years, you could sign Santander, Alonso/Henandez, and maybe Adames. Move Bo to 2b. Then next year if Vlad leaves and Bo leaves - you still have those three guys and you can add.

 

I can't really see the Jays wanting to pay Vlad $400m when Freddie Freeman is a FAR better player and signed for a little over half that. I know ages and all - but so what - older guys you can sign for fewer years and fewer years means less of an albatross if things go badly.

 

The Dodgers were largely better than the Yankees because they had far more depth 1-9 - everyone in their line-up can hit - while the Yankees have arguably 4 bats.

 

When I see fans here making out the line-up with Springer batting 5th - it's meh. He should be no higher than 7th with Kirk (at best) 8th, and Varsho 9th. That's not too bad for the bottom of the order. In fact, if it were not for his contract, they would be happy to replace him with Hernandez (oops) or Santander.

 

I can see paying Soto because he is maybe the best hitter in baseball and you can live with him in the OF, preferably LF to avoid exposing his noodle arm.

 

CAn you calrify what you mean about signing Santander, Alonso/Hernandez, and Adames for less money and shorter term than Soto?

 

LIke, its obvious any one of them would be less AAV and fewer years, but ... are you saying you could get 3 of those 4 guys together, for less AAV combined than Soto is gonna get?

[Brownie19]

I wonder what the team would look like if we:

 

A - traded Vlad for a haul of young, controllable players;

B - add Vlad's $30M projected salary to our available budget; and

C - add through free agency.

 

I'd love to add "Sign Soto" in there, but I just don't see that as an option.

 

I wonder what type of team we could field...

[Laika]

I wonder what the team would look like if we:

 

A - traded Vlad for a haul of young, controllable players;

B - add Vlad's $30M projected salary to our available budget; and

C - add through free agency.

 

I'd love to add "Sign Soto" in there, but I just don't see that as an option.

 

I wonder what type of team we could field...

 

It is not hard to imagine

 

Instead of Vlad you have something like Santander for 4/$80M and Goldschmidt or whatever for 1/$12M.

Plus whoever you think they might be able to sign while keeping Vlad. Say Max Fried for 5/$125

Plus a few more prospects.

 

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee plan the parade

[Spanky99]

Toronto Blue Jays as is, is projected for 39.8 fWAR... need to bump that up considerably with a good offseason.

[Laika]

Toronto Blue Jays as is, is projected for 39.8 fWAR... need to bump that up considerably with a good offseason.

 

not a horrible group projection to be honest. that's like an 85 win team.

 

who knows if it's legit though. last year they projected for like 87 wins and we all saw what happened.

[Spanky99]

I’ll just go ahead and put all my chips on Urshela now and say .750 OPs at min with solid D. Let’s see where shitbag IKF lands

 

Oops.

[Spanky99]

Nobody wants IKF for 1.5 years and $11m. If someone takes him, it would be as a salary dump.

 

Oops

[glory]