General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[G-Snarls]

We can talk about where we'd like our current players positionally, the truth is that a lot of this will be dependent on the free agents and/or players we can get via trade.

 

You go get the best player(s) and then plug in our current guys where it makes sense. Without knowing who we can get, we're just going in circles.

 

It is good to have some flexibility positonally but I'm sure the front office can't be stupid enough to go to the other extreme again by totally neglecting defense.

 

Absolutely fair points

[Brownie19]

We can talk about where we'd like our current players positionally, the truth is that a lot of this will be dependent on the free agents and/or players we can get via trade.

 

You go get the best player(s) and then plug in our current guys where it makes sense. Without knowing who we can get, we're just going in circles.

 

It is good to have some flexibility positonally but I'm sure the front office can't be stupid enough to go to the other extreme again by totally neglecting defense.

 

100% - spot on. Love it.

[John_Havok]

In 4 of his last 6 starts, Bowden Francis allowed only 1 hit.

[Pinkfloid]

In 4 of his last 6 starts, Bowden Francis allowed only 1 hit.

 

And I believe he pitched 7+ innings in all of them. Crazy run.

[Omar]

Wtf?

 

[John_Havok]

Wtf?

 

 

It's Heyman....I'd say that's a compliment

[Olerud363]

It's Heyman....I'd say that's a compliment

 

Did he expand on this? Based on what? Basically it is a try out now... so not playing 'well'. But not playing right?

 

Like Loperfido and Addison Barger are 'not playing well' in some respects despite obvious 'fast twitch' talent, but not playing 'right'?

 

Wagner, Clemente, Howritz are better despite not the greatest bat speed and tools I guess. Playing good enough. Are they playing right?

 

The bullpen? Just a bunch off the scrap heap and no diamonds really found, and Chad Green lost it. Not playing well. But not playing right?

 

Starting rotation is pretty amazing actually all things considered. Weakness may be they aren't flame throwers. Playing well. Playing right. Limited perhaps in velocity. That has nothing to do with 'playing right' though. They do the best they can with what they have, which is often very good.

 

The vets? Springer, Varsho, Guerrero? Perhaps the latter clowns around too much... but c'mon. Making it kind of fun for the young guys in a relaxed time where winning isn't everything.

 

Not playing well? No s*** Sherlick. Not playing right? Please expand mr. Heyman.

[The_DH]

I'd say the playing right thing could include the team not having any defensive concentration. That move where Horiwitz after not spending much time lately at 2b was played there and made one of the worst throws. I'd say that was a bad play by management. That seemed to be playing the game wrong.

[Laika]

I mean he is right, even if "playing the game the right way" is pretty heavy coded language that the Baseball Old Boys Conservation Club uses all the time

 

Toronto continues to be one of the worst baserunning teams in baseball and a lot of that is just stupidity. They ground into double plays at an alarming rate, don't exactly rise to the occasion ever, they blow games, they are not clutch... the defense is not as solid as it was pre-deadline:

 

Kirk - great

Varsho - great

Clement - fine but yips

Vlad - s***

Barger - s***

Horwitz - s*** at 2B

Wagner/Schneider at 2B - I mean these are guys you hide at 2B

Schneider in LF - sucks

Springer - bad

 

What does this organization even do right? What do they do "the right way" at this point? They suck on talent and they suck on fundamentals, lol.

[Brownie19]

The metrics suggest he sucks, but I must say that when I watch Springer play RF - I don't think he looks below average.

[Olerud363]

I mean he is right, even if "playing the game the right way" is pretty heavy coded language that the Baseball Old Boys Conservation Club uses all the time

 

Toronto continues to be one of the worst baserunning teams in baseball and a lot of that is just stupidity. They ground into double plays at an alarming rate, don't exactly rise to the occasion ever, they blow games, they are not clutch... the defense is not as solid as it was pre-deadline:

 

Kirk - great

Varsho - great

Clement - fine but yips

Vlad - s***

Barger - s***

Horwitz - s*** at 2B

Wagner/Schneider at 2B - I mean these are guys you hide at 2B

Schneider in LF - sucks

Springer - bad

 

What does this organization even do right? What do they do "the right way" at this point? They suck on talent and they suck on fundamentals, lol.

 

I'm just a fangraphs casual according to fangraphs though Howritz isn't s***... is D-score is OK even getting knocked down by playing DH once and a while.

 

I guess the other D systems must not like Howritz at second... but it is really stupid they took him off second in 2024. That was actually the bad part. No problem taking him off second 2025 depending how the roster shakes.

 

I liked the Howritz at 2nd, Vlad at 3rd because it was kindof progressive. Like the theory of defense is (within some limits) a player is the same at every position. Of course there are opportunity of hard plays but...

 

1. A guy like Vlad might score similarly at third and 1st, because his arm will allow him to make plays on all the balls he gets to (no question he will be limited in range, but that happens at both positions).

2. A guy like Horwitz with good hands and presumably good hand eye might be a very good defensive 1b men, and a mediocre 2b... but his d-score will be similar at each.

 

So when making a team maybe Vlad is 4 WAR, and Horwitz 2.5 WAR at both positions they can play... and in a lost year you should keep them both active to maintain flexibility in the offseason.

[Terminator]

Wtf?

 

 

That's just a stupid way of saying we suck which is accurate

[wilko]

Wtf?

 

 

Heyman can suck my farts. He not wrong though.. He shouldn't be allowed to tweet after noon.

[glory]

Yeah, Heyman is right, but unless he provided further context, it seemed like a random thing to Tweet. Was it the decision to keep Francis in the game when he was throwing 89 mph instead of pulling him earlier despite the no hitter? Was it the defense? The bullpen? All of it? I didn't watch the game so not sure if anything specific happened to cause Heyman to say that. I mean in general, saying the Jays suck is kinda common sense at this point.

 

I mean he is right, even if "playing the game the right way" is pretty heavy coded language that the Baseball Old Boys Conservation Club uses all the time

 

Toronto continues to be one of the worst baserunning teams in baseball and a lot of that is just stupidity. They ground into double plays at an alarming rate, don't exactly rise to the occasion ever, they blow games, they are not clutch... the defense is not as solid as it was pre-deadline:

 

Kirk - great

Varsho - great

Clement - fine but yips

Vlad - s***

Barger - s***

Horwitz - s*** at 2B

Wagner/Schneider at 2B - I mean these are guys you hide at 2B

Schneider in LF - sucks

Springer - bad

 

What does this organization even do right? What do they do "the right way" at this point? They suck on talent and they suck on fundamentals, lol.

 

I think 2024 has exposed how bad the player development is. Previous years they could mask it with smart free agent decisions, but they failed miserably on that end this year (KK, Turner, Green extension, Vogelbach, etc), and now that they have an opportunity to play the young talent, you see just how far away most of them are from being impact players. Horwitz has the best shot at it but he's a platoon 1B so that's going to limit the amount of value he could provide. We talk about this FO's inability to develop pitching, but it's much greater on the RP side. Like how do you not have a single interesting pen option when cycling through the waiver wire and having the ability to call up practically anyone in the farm system who looks semi decent and not doing it? Francis developing the way he has is probably a semi miracle at this point.

[Orgfiller]

The metrics suggest he sucks, but I must say that when I watch Springer play RF - I don't think he looks below average.

 

It's not like he's a complete disaster out there or anything, e.g. when comparing him to someone who actually looks bad out there like Teoscar. He's 36th percentile OAA, with slightly above average range and arm strength, but his accuracy must be horrendous because the only reason he's a negative by Statcast is his arm value is a -2. Is he airmailing the cutoff throw every time and missing badly when throwing to bases or something? Seems like this has been an issue before for him, just one of those things he never really got good at and it's only gotten worse.

[G-Snarls]

Yeah we have much bigger problems than Springer's RF defense

 

And I think he looks fine too

[max silver]

Yeah we have much bigger problems than Springer's RF defense

 

And I think he looks fine too

 

I'm far more concerned about his declining bat.

[Omar]

Heyman can suck my farts. He not wrong though.. He shouldn't be allowed to tweet after noon.

 

Remember he said Judge to the Giants:p

[Omar]

That's just a stupid way of saying we suck which is accurate

 

Don't mind someone pointing out we suck (water is also wet) but not playing the game right? He can GTFO!

[John_Havok]

I'm far more concerned about his declining bat.

 

Yeah. Looks like he's a 95- 100 wRC+ going forward. He's clearly not as bad as his slump this year, but also clearly not the hitter he was a few years ago. His overall power is just vanishing.

[John_Havok]

Remember he said Judge to the Giants:p

 

Arson Judge... he didn't even spell his name right in the tweet ffs.

[Brownie19]

Yeah. Looks like he's a 95- 100 wRC+ going forward. He's clearly not as bad as his slump this year, but also clearly not the hitter he was a few years ago. His overall power is just vanishing.

 

Since June 1st (3.5 months), he's been a 107 wRC+ hitter with a .190 ISO. I think we can live with that. He's seemingly made a big change with how hard he's swinging, which has helped the power return to some extent.

[Laika]

Since June 1st (3.5 months), he's been a 107 wRC+ hitter with a .190 ISO. I think we can live with that. He's seemingly made a big change with how hard he's swinging, which has helped the power return to some extent.

 

Splits are funny

 

I think his second half and first half wRC+ are identical

 

He really just had one hot month, July

[wilko]

Remember he said Judge to the Giants:p

 

Arson! He spews brain farts.

[Laika]

HOT NEW TORONTO BLUE JAYS WAIVER CLAIM RELIEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Brett de Geus

[Spanky99]

Don't mind someone pointing out we suck (water is also wet) but not playing the game right? He can GTFO!

 

Bingo!

[max silver]

Splits are funny

 

I think his second half and first half wRC+ are identical

 

He really just had one hot month, July

 

Springer has been a pretty solid contributor over the last 3 months or so. His 118 wRC+ over his last 370 PA is more indicative of the type of decline that could have reasonably been expected of him vs the numbers he produced in 2023 and the first few months of this season. The quality of contact metrics aside from max exit velocity in this stretch are pretty similar to his overall numbers from the 2022 season so hopefully it's something he can keep up.

[Laika]

Springer has been a pretty solid contributor over the last 3 months or so. His 118 wRC+ over his last 370 PA is more indicative of the type of decline that could have reasonably been expected of him vs the numbers he produced in 2023 and the first few months of this season. The quality of contact metrics aside from max exit velocity in this stretch are pretty similar to his overall numbers from the 2022 season so hopefully it's something he can keep up.

 

what are you guys smoking

 

he had a 104 wRC+ last year and has a 97 wRC+ this season. That is across over 1200 PA.

 

he turns thirty-f***ing-five in 7 days

 

I would love for him to be 18% better than league average with the stick but that doesn't strike me as at all likely

[Barrelsandbombs]

what are you guys smoking

 

he had a 104 wRC+ last year and has a 97 wRC+ this season. That is across over 1200 PA.

 

he turns thirty-f***ing-five in 7 days

 

I would love for him to be 18% better than league average with the stick but that doesn't strike me as at all likely

 

He has a 126 wRC+ in his last 263 PA since he went from holding the bat perpendicularly to his spine to holding the bat parallel to his spine.

 

[wilko]

HOT NEW TORONTO BLUE JAYS WAIVER CLAIM RELIEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Brett de Geus

 

They DFA'd Yerry Rodriguez!