General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[Olerud363]

For sure. I don't understand how some of the projections are equal to or greater than his best career season but doesn’t really matter

 

Projections might still include his minor league numbers which were good and maybe they include his batted ball data? I don't know. I haven't really looked at his batted ball data, but maybe everything except his batting average suggest he should hit .240, so the projection system still thinks he should hit .240.

[Carlos Danger]

The 7-8 previous posts is why I have no idea why the FO signed KK in the off season with the intention of having him play CF when he plays.

 

People criticized the IFK signing, but it was also in the context of the total roster construction. IFK, KK, Biggio, Varsho etc just didn't go to great overall roster construction.

[Stangstag]

Only until they finally give up on giving KK playing time

 

Will be nice when he’s moved at the deadline and Varsho gets the chance to shine in CF

 

Who am i kidding, he’ll probably tear his ACL or something the day after KK gets traded

[L54]

Projections might still include his minor league numbers which were good and maybe they include his batted ball data? I don't know. I haven't really looked at his batted ball data, but maybe everything except his batting average suggest he should hit .240, so the projection system still thinks he should hit .240.

 

I guess the minor league numbers are baked in there to some degree. I don’t think batted ball data is used in any projection system on FG but I could be wrong

[HomeRunHomer]

Yeah at this point they are playing KK in the hopes that he'll start hitting so they can trade him.

Have to hope that someone wants some outfield defense off the bench because even the Jays who loves their veteran presence pinch hit rookie Barger and his 6 wRC+ for him yesterday.

[Krylian]

[Laika]

Tidy piece of work there.

 

Best player hits the IL and we also get a look at arguably the best MLB ready prospect in the org (unless you still like Tiedemann the glass cannon...)

 

Team Tank will be very happy.

[Omar]

Tidy piece of work there.

 

Best player hits the IL and we also get a look at arguably the best MLB ready prospect in the org (unless you still like Tiedemann the glass cannon...)

 

Team Tank will be very happy.

 

They should move Bo to 2b and let Jimenez play SS as a passive aggressive move.

[wilko]

They should move Bo to 2b and let Jimenez play SS as a passive aggressive move.

 

The final nail in the coffin for Bo!

[Jonn]

 

Finally someone who can actually f***ing play Shortstop.

[Terminator]

Have to hope that someone wants some outfield defense off the bench because even the Jays who loves their veteran presence pinch hit rookie Barger and his 6 wRC+ for him yesterday.

 

Yeah I'm not expecting much. Something like the Jays pay all his salary and get a low level lotto ticket or a relief pitching prospect in in return.

[AMS528]

Tidy piece of work there.

 

Best player hits the IL and we also get a look at arguably the best MLB ready prospect in the org (unless you still like Tiedemann the glass cannon...)

 

Team Tank will be very happy.

 

All we've got left to do is get rid of KK and bring up Lukes and that's basically all of the Buffalo guys. It's probably too early to include Tirotta with that group, but with Martinez gone we may as well trade Bo and get him up here as well for the infield.

[The_DH]

 

Okay so Jimenez gets his quick test to see if he's ready for the Majors and to replace Bo for the longer term.

[G-Snarls]

At this point I'll be a bit surprised if Bo DOESN'T get traded

[John_Havok]

Have to hope that someone wants some outfield defense off the bench because even the Jays who loves their veteran presence pinch hit rookie Barger and his 6 wRC+ for him yesterday.

 

Trading KK whilst eating a chunk of his remaining salary should be the easiest sell out there. The return won't be anything impactful though.

[glory]

Finally someone who can actually f***ing play Shortstop.

 

Jimenez won’t play SS as long as Bo is on the team (hell, Jimenez may not play at all knowing JS).

 

Only a few more weeks of the vetrins playing and then hopefully there’s some changes in Aug/Sept. Whether Jimenez, Horwitz, DS, Barger, and eventually Orelvis can be MLB starters remains to be seen but at least seeing all of them in the lineup regularly would be something to watch for over the final two months of this dreadful season.

[G-Snarls]

Trading KK whilst eating a chunk of his remaining salary should be the easiest sell out there. The return won't be anything impactful though.

 

Doesn't have to be. Saves money. Gives Varsho full time CF work. Opens the door to acquire a corner OF who can actually hit.

[Omar]

Everyone looking forward to vetrin absence.

[G-Snarls]

Everyone looking forward to vetrin absence.

 

I'm fine with veterans if they can hit

[Krylian]

All I know is they can't pick better than 10th. I think they go straight to 10th and 11th with no lottery balls while the teams around them get at least like 1% at 1st overall.

 

Stumbled upon this article about the A's, but it talks about the new "Can't pick in the Top 10 multiple years" thing, and it's a bit more complicated than I thought.

 

There is a little added pressure for the A's front office when it comes to this pick since they won't have a top-10 selection next year despite having MLB's third-worst record and being on pace for their third straight 100+ loss season. This is because there is a new rule that goes with the lottery process that if a revenue sharing recipient (like the A's) holds a pick in the lottery two years in a row, they can't have a pick in the first nine in the third year, which would leave them with the tenth pick.

 

There is also a rule that if a team pays into revenue sharing (like the White Sox) and lands a lottery pick, they can't hold a lottery selection the following year. The White Sox are currently six games worse than the A's and hold the fifth overall pick, so they're fairly locked into that 10th overall selection in next year's draft.

 

https://www.si.com/mlb/athletics/news/a-s-draft-pick-could-be-determined-early-01j1s25g970h#:~:text=This%20is%20because%20there%20is,them%20with%20the%20tenth%20pick.

[G-Snarls]

Stumbled upon this article about the A's, but it talks about the new "Can't pick in the Top 10 multiple years" thing, and it's a bit more complicated than I thought.

 

 

 

https://www.si.com/mlb/athletics/news/a-s-draft-pick-could-be-determined-early-01j1s25g970h#:~:text=This%20is%20because%20there%20is,them%20with%20the%20tenth%20pick.

 

Interesting

 

They're really trying to de-incentivize hardcore tanking

[Krylian]

Interesting

 

They're really trying to de-incentivize hardcore tanking

 

The smaller market teams are probably hurt most by this. They can't build via free agency. Drafting and development is really all they have and now they're being limited. Not a huge handicap but it is making it harder for them.

[HomeRunHomer]

[John_Havok]

Doesn't have to be. Saves money. Gives Varsho full time CF work. Opens the door to acquire a corner OF who can actually hit.

 

I think if they're at the place where all the pending FAs are being dumped, they wont be likely to bring in any OF from outside the org unless it's a pure placeholder. I don't see them acquiring a longer-term OF in season.

[John_Havok]

Interesting

 

They're really trying to de-incentivize hardcore tanking

 

As well they should. The thing with those smaller market teams that receive revenue sharing, they also get those additional "small market" comp picks every year between rounds 1 and 2 and rounds 2 and 3. I think rather than excluding them from a top 10 pick, they should be excluded from those ones instead.

[Jonn]

Jimenez won’t play SS as long as Bo is on the team (hell, Jimenez may not play at all knowing JS).

 

Only a few more weeks of the vetrins playing and then hopefully there’s some changes in Aug/Sept. Whether Jimenez, Horwitz, DS, Barger, and eventually Orelvis can be MLB starters remains to be seen but at least seeing all of them in the lineup regularly would be something to watch for over the final two months of this dreadful season.

 

Trading Bo now seems dumb. But they are going to have to either now or in the off-season. His Season being so s*** nuked his value. They could have got a kings randsom in the off-season which they should have if they didn’t even approach his extension asking price in negotiations. Frustrating how often the Jays fumble players value before letting them go. Would be nice it they actually cashed out on some of these guys. Especially when they didn’t do anything to improve the roster in the off-season. I didn’t think they would be this bad but a .500 or slightly above was my highest expectations,

[John_Havok]

Trading Bo now seems dumb. But they are going to have to either now or in the off-season. His Season being so s*** nuked his value. They could have got a kings randsom in the off-season which they should have if they didn’t even approach his extension asking price in negotiations. Frustrating how often the Jays fumble players value before letting them go. Would be nice it they actually cashed out on some of these guys. Especially when they didn’t do anything to improve the roster in the off-season. I didn’t think they would be this bad but a .500 or slightly above was my highest expectations,

 

All of that is hindsight though... and we have no idea how close or not close they were in extension talks.

 

But lets assume they were far enough apart that they knew an extension couldn't get done this past offseason, why should that automatically equate to being traded? They still had plans to compete this season, so trading him in the last offseason wouldnt make sense either. Obviously nobody sees Bo being this bad in 2024, so the "well he had a bad few months last year so it should have been obvious he was going to be terrible" argument is just brainless. Not saying you're making that argument, but you know some people think it.

 

There really was no reason in the last offseason to trade Bo when they had plans on contending in 2024. Hell even if Bo flat out said "i will not sign an extension here so don't bother offering" they'd still look at keeping him for at least 2024 before looking at a deal in this upcoming offseason. unfortunately, worst case scenario happened... Bo sucks and his value for trade is in the shitter.

[Jonn]

All of that is hindsight though... and we have no idea how close or not close they were in extension talks.

 

But lets assume they were far enough apart that they knew an extension couldn't get done this past offseason, why should that automatically equate to being traded? They still had plans to compete this season, so trading him in the last offseason wouldnt make sense either. Obviously nobody sees Bo being this bad in 2024, so the "well he had a bad few months last year so it should have been obvious he was going to be terrible" argument is just brainless. Not saying you're making that argument, but you know some people think it.

 

There really was no reason in the last offseason to trade Bo when they had plans on contending in 2024. Hell even if Bo flat out said "i will not sign an extension here so don't bother offering" they'd still look at keeping him for at least 2024 before looking at a deal in this upcoming offseason. unfortunately, worst case scenario happened... Bo sucks and his value for trade is in the shitter.

 

We will never know the full details of contract negotiations. But there has been multiple reports to come out in the last couple years including recently that both sides haven't even been close in numbers. If they weren't in the 200 million dollar extension range for Bo in the off-season they certainly won't be now. And Bo is not going to sign a lesser number now because he's had a bad first half of the Season. Jays can't operate like the Dodgers and Yankees. Even if they have the money they don't have the pull or the allure. It has burned the Jays several times in this regime alone not trading players at max value. Josh Donaldson being the most notable one. I posted in the off-season if they weren't going to extend Bo to the kind of money he was likely to command they should trade him now. Now he's having a down season and the Jays are s***. They have zero leverage.

 

To your last point I don't see any evidence to suggest they were thinking they were contending in 2024. I feel they were stuck with the roster they had because it was massively overpaid and they couldn't do much more than hope they would sneak into a wildcard spot.

[John_Havok]

We will never know the full details of contract negotiations. But there has been multiple reports to come out in the last couple years including recently that both sides haven't even been close in numbers. If they weren't in the 200 million dollar extension range for Bo in the off-season they certainly won't be now. And Bo is not going to sign a lesser number now because he's had a bad first half of the Season. Jays can't operate like the Dodgers and Yankees. Even if they have the money they don't have the pull or the allure. It has burned the Jays several times in this regime alone not trading players at max value. Josh Donaldson being the most notable one. I posted in the off-season if they weren't going to extend Bo to the kind of money he was likely to command they should trade him now. Now he's having a down season and the Jays are s***. They have zero leverage.

 

To your last point I don't see any evidence to suggest they were thinking they were contending in 2024. I feel they were stuck with the roster they had because it was massively overpaid and they couldn't do much more than hope they would sneak into a wildcard spot.

 

Youre right that they dont have to act like New York or LA and just keep everyone and hope.... but they also dont need to act like the Rays and trade everyone before they get to arb 2 regardless of how good they are. Its just that of all the scenarios that could have played out, many of which are extremely positive, the scenario currently playing out is like the 3rd worst one imaginable.

 

And contending doesn't necessarily mean contending for best team in baseball. I don't think they had any delusions of being a team in that conversation, but a top 10 team? That's a contending team, regardless of how they get into the playoffs. And to think they could be a top 10 team in 2024 isnt a stretch when you see they were a top 9 team in 2023 that had several offensive players massively underperform.

 

So, a team that isnt the Rays and doesnt have to be, is never going to trade Bo with 2 years left on his deal.

[L54]

Bo’s season is like quite literally the worst case scenario for a healthy Bichette. I’m sure the thought process was well even if we suck we can still move him in July but here we are