General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[hanton]

Has he even played a single inning in the field this spring?

 

yes

[John_Havok]

I don't think a player can give up a guaranteed salary. I know they can forfeit a guaranteed salary if they refuse assignment to the minors and choose to become a free agent, but I don't think a minor league signing who gets 2 million guaranteed if he makes the club can then agree to have that 2 million "unguaranteed". That kind of situation would create extremely obvious ways to exploit players by clubs.

 

THe blurb in Davidi's article just means they have 2 choices... add him to the 40 man and he gets his 2 million guaranteed, or dont add him and he goes to AAA on his minor league salary. There's no third option to add him to the 40 man with an unguaranteed salary.

 

They just punted 2.75 million by trading Espinal so the 2 million for Vogelbach and possibly up to 4 million for Votto, is really just a net cost of up to 3.25 million over the whole season. If Votto's incentives don't trigger, it's 1.25 net. Not a big deal cost wise.

 

Adding a correction to my post here.

 

Apparently they can ask him to agree to a 45 day window in which they can outright him and then he forfeits whatever remains on the 2 million guaranteed annual salary. Something called "Advanced Consent"

 

That's one piece of the CBA I'd be looking at getting rid of in the next round of negotiations if I'm the head of the PA. That's a really bad look when teams do that.

 

here's a decent breakdown from mlbtraderumours in 2014 about it.

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/04/the-45-day-advance-consent-form.html

[Stangstag]

Yes: starts at 1b and 3b.

 

Thanks, I definitely missed those

[deanmike]

They must plan on Turner playing the field a lot

 

The team has maintained since getting Turner that the plan is for him to play the field 1-2 times a week (hopefully all at 3B), and presumably they are going to try and make it on as many days against RHP starters as possible so Vogelbach can start at DH on those days.

 

The Jays barely use the 13th batter on the 26th man. Vogelbach is the 13th batter this season (soon to be replaced by Votto?), and this is the limited use they have planned for his role. In the past it's been Zimmer/Cam Eden types, guess they're going for something different this season.

[deanmike]

 

Decisions still remain on the pitching side although it appears Kevin Gausman, who will start Monday’s spring finale against the Pirates in Bradenton, Fla. will be ready to make his first turn of the regular season.

 

But likely injured-list stints for Jordan Romano and Erik Swanson leave two spots available in the bullpen, with length being a consideration for how the Blue Jays decide to backfill. Nate Pearson, Zach Pop, Wes Parsons and Yariel Rodriguez are on-the-40-man roster options in the mix.

 

Both Vogelbach and Serven must be added to the 40-man roster and the Blue Jays only have one spot open, so some roster juggling lies ahead, too. They’ll also have to assign several players still in camp, Alek Manoah among them, and decide on next steps for Joey Votto, who rolled his ankle last week and needs more time to build up. That reopened a pathway for Vogelbach that seemed to have closed when the future Hall of Famer initially arrived.

 

The situation still sets up machinations to come, although the Blue Jays clearly see value in carrying Vogelbach’s impressive power and experience as a pinch-hitter off the bench with Votto’s timeline uncertain. They could have gone with outfielder Nathan Lukes, who played well enough to make the team, but seemingly weren’t willing to cover a gap without an impact lefty option.

 

“Definitely want him in against certain pitchers, especially right-handers, whether that’s to start or an option off the bench that can control the zone and do damage,” John Schneider said of Vogelbach. “I think it complements what we have already really, really well. His track record is really good. And excited to have him the person with the group.”

 

There is far less surprise about Davis Schneider, who gave the Blue Jays a pivotal jolt late last season, and Clement, whose “game has evolved so much in the last year,” said John Schneider. “Hitting the ball with authority, defensive versatility, bases, just everything. … Forced our hand, really. He’s played really well.”

 

Per Shi, seems like Romano and Swanson will both need IL stints to start the season after all. On the plus side looks like Gausman will be good to go though.

[saskjayfan]

Adding a correction to my post here.

 

Apparently they can ask him to agree to a 45 day window in which they can outright him and then he forfeits whatever remains on the 2 million guaranteed annual salary. Something called "Advanced Consent"

 

That's one piece of the CBA I'd be looking at getting rid of in the next round of negotiations if I'm the head of the PA. That's a really bad look when teams do that.

 

here's a decent breakdown from mlbtraderumours in 2014 about it.

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/04/the-45-day-advance-consent-form.html

 

The player has to agree though. Why would the player agree? I could see if there was no one behind you and you felt confident in your abilities, but the guy behind you is Joey fricken Votto. Vogelbach could be a month in with a respectable .780 OPS and if Votto is mashing in the minors, he's gone. I'd be very interested if he agreed to this clause.

 

I mean Vogelbach is used to travelling around. He might just be like, I'm good where I am now. If they DFA me I'll get another job. He's probably right, but I wouldn't agree to that clause, but then again who's going to give him a job right off the hop at this point. Mike Ford got released and he put up a .798 OPS last year and in spring he hit .455/.486//.727 in 35 PA and he still got released.

[mphenhef]

Has he even played a single inning in the field this spring?

 

He played first base the other day

[mphenhef]

The player has to agree though. Why would the player agree? I could see if there was no one behind you and you felt confident in your abilities, but the guy behind you is Joey fricken Votto. Vogelbach could be a month in with a respectable .780 OPS and if Votto is mashing in the minors, he's gone. I'd be very interested if he agreed to this clause.

 

I mean Vogelbach is used to travelling around. He might just be like, I'm good where I am now. If they DFA me I'll get another job. He's probably right, but I wouldn't agree to that clause, but then again who's going to give him a job right off the hop at this point. Mike Ford got released and he put up a .798 OPS last year and in spring he hit .455/.486//.727 in 35 PA and he still got released.

 

I would think a month of major league salary and showcase time might be worth it.

[Spanky99]

He played first base the other day

 

He's played 1st and 3rd base in the complex backfield games, 1st a few times and 3rd once in ST starts. The flexibility is about getting Vogelbach's bat in against certain starts against RHP and for pinch hitting according to Schneider.

[mphenhef]

Vlad is pulling out early right now.

 

What is something they have never said about SR. ?

[saskjayfan]

He's played 1st and 3rd base in the complex backfield games, 1st a few times and 3rd once in ST starts. The flexibility is about getting Vogelbach's bat in against certain starts against RHP and for pinch hitting according to Schneider.

 

The same will be true when Votto takes Vogelbach's place, but when Votto starts crushing it, Turner is going to realize he's going to have to spend a few extra days in the ice baths following games.

[Spanky99]

The same will be true when Votto takes Vogelbach's place, but when Votto starts crushing it, Turner is going to realize he's going to have to spend a few extra days in the ice baths following games.

 

I'm fairly certain that Votto is older than Turner sir.

[Spanky99]

Finale... lets get to the Trop and f*** s*** up!

 

[saskjayfan]

I'm fairly certain that Votto is older than Turner sir.

 

Yes, but he's going to DH and when he's killing it he's going to force turner to play some 2nd and 3rd diving for balls, thus the ice baths.

[Laika]

I would think a month of major league salary and showcase time might be worth it.

 

Absolutely

[Spanky99]

Finale... lets get to the Trop and f*** s*** up!

 

 

All televised games are free on MLBTV today and tomorrow. Just saying...

[BTS]

So I guess the options for Vogelbach were:

 

- don’t sign the advanced consent form, don’t make the team, play in AAA for minor league money

- sign the form, play in the majors to start the season, earn money at at a 2M rate, and hope to play well enough to either stay with the jays or get another team interested in rostering him

 

The first option clearly makes the most sense for him I think

[Laika]

This is what I was saying about Schneider earlier...

 

 

what does this have to do with Schneider

[L54]

This is what I was saying about Schneider earlier...

 

 

Agreed

[Spanky99]

what does this have to do with Schneider

 

My bad, got the numbers mixed up.

 

[Spanky99]

Agreed

 

K.....

[AMS528]

I don't know if this is really the place for discussion about it, but I have really found the fact that all the discussion on this board basically gets confined to like four threads is unideal for effective discussions.

 

I get not wanting a specific thread for every issue with the team etc. but even just having like general blue jays hitting discussion, general blue jays pitching discussion, general blue jays bullpen discussion or something like would probably help with a conversation or discussion not getting lost in a couple of pages, or a single diversion between two posters drowning out any other conversation for a series of pages.

 

This is like the busiest Blue Jays message board by a mile, and it's weird that it winds up working that way.

[Laika]

I don't know if this is really the place for discussion about it, but I have really found the fact that all the discussion on this board basically gets confined to like four threads is unideal for effective discussions.

 

I get not wanting a specific thread for every issue with the team etc. but even just having like general blue jays hitting discussion, general blue jays pitching discussion, general blue jays bullpen discussion or something like would probably help with a conversation or discussion not getting lost in a couple of pages, or a single diversion between two posters drowning out any other conversation for a series of pages.

 

This is like the busiest Blue Jays message board by a mile, and it's weird that it winds up working that way.

 

Yeah I dunno why it happens this way. There is no law or whatever against other threads. People can create them. There is almost always a new thread for big news.

 

We do have the Minor League thread, which is a good example.

 

Not sure though that hitting, starting pitching, or bullpen threads would make sense on their own. Hmmmm. Maybe.

[Governator]

I don't know if this is really the place for discussion about it, but I have really found the fact that all the discussion on this board basically gets confined to like four threads is unideal for effective discussions.

 

I get not wanting a specific thread for every issue with the team etc. but even just having like general blue jays hitting discussion, general blue jays pitching discussion, general blue jays bullpen discussion or something like would probably help with a conversation or discussion not getting lost in a couple of pages, or a single diversion between two posters drowning out any other conversation for a series of pages.

 

This is like the busiest Blue Jays message board by a mile, and it's weird that it winds up working that way.

 

While it may sound ideal, it's simply too difficult to moderate. I've tried that before moderating a different 4million post board. It's very easy for conversations to go from one topic to another by discussion alone. If there was a BP discussion thread I can guarantee you more often than not the topic quickly changes from set up men to long arms, to the ideal #5 starter, within 2 pages. The conversation constantly evolves and having set topics means moderation which no mod is going to go through and try to tell people to "stay on topic".

[Laika]

One thing we could do is get rid of most of the current stickied threads, and move Around Baseball and General Blue Jays Discussion and the MiLB Discussion threads to the stickied section.

[Governator]

One thing we could do is get rid of most of the current stickied threads, and move Around Baseball and General Blue Jays Discussion and the MiLB Discussion threads to the stickied section.

 

That's not a bad idea, big decision though to move those to the sticky section. Maybe a group call on that

[Jonn]

People here are getting old. They can’t keep track of a few pages! Pinning the main threads isn’t a bad idea. You could always put the rules in its own section at the top of the board. But who reads those anyway. I have been here for like 10 years and haven’t viewed those threads to my memory ever lol.

[Orgfiller]

So I guess the options for Vogelbach were:

 

- don’t sign the advanced consent form, don’t make the team, play in AAA for minor league money

- sign the form, play in the majors to start the season, earn money at at a 2M rate, and hope to play well enough to either stay with the jays or get another team interested in rostering him

 

The first option clearly makes the most sense for him I think

 

Surely you mean the second option makes more sense right? Better compensation, more TV time/exposure that is tracked against the best possible competition, you get to fully control your own future since it's already a pain in the ass to have to DFA someone if a team is afraid of losing an asset.

[G-Snarls]

All televised games are free on MLBTV today and tomorrow. Just saying...

 

Big day for Gausman

 

Hopefully he throws 60-65 pitches easily. I think that's what they had in mind?

[Spanky99]

Big day for Gausman

 

Hopefully he throws 60-65 pitches easily. I think that's what they had in mind?

 

3 up and downs for 55 pitches.