GDT: Game 1/2 Phillies @ Blue Jays (Aug 15 at 7:07 ET)

[jaysblue]

If we have the lead going into the 6th inning I don't think any team would be tougher to beat in the AL. Just need the bats to give us that lead. It's going to be a crapshoot once we get in and we have as good a chance as any other team in the AL to get to the Series.

 

I don't agree 100% but they do have a lot of solid options down in the bullpen.

 

Romano has been a solid and reliable closer, so can't complain. Mayza is having a great year. Swanson has been solid but he's not that elite lockdown reliever. Hicks can be that guy, but he could also implode as well. Let's hope Green can come back and be that elite arm in the pen.

[Omar]

I don't agree 100% but they do have a lot of solid options down in the bullpen.

 

Romano has been a solid and reliable closer, so can't complain. Mayza is having a great year. Swanson has been solid but he's not that elite lockdown reliever. Hicks can be that guy, but he could also implode as well. Let's hope Green can come back and be that elite arm in the pen.

 

So once Green joins the big club and Richards comes back you don't think this is one of best pens in the AL? Which bullpen has a lower whip than us this season?

[Omar]

Unless this version of Kikuchi is suddenly the real deal, we still have a number 1, a couple of 3's and a 4 as our starters. You still need somebody to pair with Gausman to form a legit one-two punch. This version of Kikuchi would do it, but is this real or just a good run?

 

The bullpen will be very deep and very very good, definitely a strength, but we still don't have a truly elite pitcher in the pen.

 

This offense though, against elite pitching, it's going to be putrid. They give the pitching no margin for error.

 

Yeah after Gausman, there really isn't a true No. 1A or 2 guy but still Berrios, Bassitt and Kikuchi are solid arms behind him. Manoah was supposed to be that guy but this season for him is a wash.

 

The Jays do have a deep bullpen, but they still lack an elite arm in the pen. Romano as closer is fine, but before him gotta hope Green could be that guy. Hicks can be erratic but also be lights out. Mayza has been solid. Swanson is decent but not that elite pen arm this team was lacking. The rest like Garcia, Cabrera and Richards are guys in the 6th or 7th innings.

 

This lineup is going to have a difficult time against elite pitching in the Postseason. Pretty much the Jays starters and BP have to be near perfect.

 

Once you get to the playoffs all bets are off. If this wasnt the case the Dodgers would have been in the World series last year and the Padres the year before. How did the ace Verlander do in game 1 last World Series? Everyone on this board already knows this, right?

[Masterbather]

So once Green joins the big club and Richards comes back you don't think this is one of best pens in the AL? Which bullpen has a lower whip than us this season?

 

It's not just about that. It's one of the deepest for sure.

 

Our bullpen was pitching pretty well at the end of last season, it wasn't near the top throughout the season but it was pitching well towards the end, but it lacked elite arms and so when we got into trouble we didn't have a shutdown option. We still don't. We will see what Green has to offer but the best we have is probably still Romano. He's not elite.

 

We have a higher floor now, which is good, more depth, but we may not really have a higher ceiling.

[Masterbather]

Once you get to the playoffs all bets are off. If this wasnt the case the Dodgers would have been in the World series last year and the Padres the year before. How did the ace Verlander do in game 1 last World Series? Everyone on this board already knows this, right?

Yes we all know that anything can happen if you make the postseason. But the pitfalls with this team are obvious. The offense is a big problem. Might that miraculously change? Sure but at this point we can't really expect it to.

[Terminator]

Yes we all know that anything can happen if you make the postseason. But the pitfalls with this team are obvious. The offense is a big problem. Might that miraculously change? Sure but at this point we can't really expect it to.

 

You actually can expect it to change.

 

We are 6th in MLB in wRC+ as a team.

 

But for some reason we are slashing .247/.324/.371 with runners in scoring position. That's down there with the Royals and A's and is unlikely to continue for a full season.

 

It's amazing we are even in contention at all with luck like that but because we hit so well otherwise we have the 2nd most ABs in baseball with RISP which helps us score some even with the ineptitude.

[L54]

Berrios is a legit #2 and the bullpen is legit not sure what some of you are talking about

[Masterbather]

You actually can expect it to change.

 

We are 6th in MLB in wRC+ as a team.

 

But for some reason we are slashing .247/.324/.371 with runners in scoring position. That's down there with the Royals and A's and is unlikely to continue for a full season.

 

It's amazing we are even in contention at all with luck like that but because we hit so well otherwise we have the 2nd most ABs in baseball with RISP which helps us score some even with the ineptitude.

 

Well we keep expecting it to change and it's getting pretty late now and it hasn't changed. So at this point I'm not expecting it anymore. I think we're going to struggle mightily the score against good teams with good arms in the postseason.

[Masterbather]

Berrios is a legit #2 and the bullpen is legit not sure what some of you are talking about

We obviously have different definitions of legit. I like Berrios, but in a playoff rotation he's miscast as a number two. Really good number three though. Pen is deep and very good, but nobody elite in there.

 

Funny enough Kikuchi actually has the chops to be a legit number two, he's showing that recently, but this could just be a blip.

[Spanky99]

Once you get to the playoffs all bets are off. If this wasnt the case the Dodgers would have been in the World series last year and the Padres the year before. How did the ace Verlander do in game 1 last World Series? Everyone on this board already knows this, right?

 

Padres died after trading Hader, lol

[Spanky99]

It's not just about that. It's one of the deepest for sure.

 

Our bullpen was pitching pretty well at the end of last season, it wasn't near the top throughout the season but it was pitching well towards the end, but it lacked elite arms and so when we got into trouble we didn't have a shutdown option. We still don't. We will see what Green has to offer but the best we have is probably still Romano. He's not elite.

 

We have a higher floor now, which is good, more depth, but we may not really have a higher ceiling.

 

lol

[Masterbather]

lol

You have a high opinion of yourself for somebody who's always wrong about this team.

[Spanky99]

You have a high opinion of yourself for somebody who's always wrong about this team.

 

Always wrong, do tell?

[Spanky99]

Koooooch!!!

[mphenhef]

It's not just about that. It's one of the deepest for sure.

 

Our bullpen was pitching pretty well at the end of last season, it wasn't near the top throughout the season but it was pitching well towards the end, but it lacked elite arms and so when we got into trouble we didn't have a shutdown option. We still don't. We will see what Green has to offer but the best we have is probably still Romano. He's not elite.

 

We have a higher floor now, which is good, more depth, but we may not really have a higher ceiling.

 

I'm not sure who these mythical elite bullpen arms people keep talking about if Romano isn't one of them. Short of Felix Bautista (who has blown 6 saves FYI)

 

All closers blow saves at a 10-15% rate (even Mo). Jordan Romano's career save percentage is identical to Mo's.

 

If you are looking for a guy with elite swing and miss, Richards is top 5 in k/9 (97 percentile in whiff rate and 99 percentile in chase rate) .

 

If you are looking for elite velo, Hicks is it.

 

Sure, we don't have someone who is elite at everything, but I'm not sure that exists.

[Brownie19]

We obviously have different definitions of legit. I like Berrios, but in a playoff rotation he's miscast as a number two. Really good number three though. Pen is deep and very good, but nobody elite in there.

 

Funny enough Kikuchi actually has the chops to be a legit number two, he's showing that recently, but this could just be a blip.

 

Berrios is like 29th in baseball in WAR from a starting pitcher. There certainly are better 1/2 combos in the game (Wheeler/Nola, Max/Eovaldi, Verlander/Framber), but it's really not a bad position to be in. It opens a good discussion on who the Jays would actually start in the playoffs. Kikuchi is pitching as well as anyone in baseball right now - a lot could change before October, but do you role with Gausman/Berrios/Bassit, knowing that Kikuchi is someone who could probably be lights out in the pen - maybe used in an Andrew Miller type role? It doesn't seem like Bassit or Berrios could play a similar role, but I could be wrong.

 

Or are you rolling with Kikuchi as your #2 given how dominant he's been lately? Do you piggyback Bassit and Kikuchi? 6-7 weeks to go, but those will be interesting decisions for the team to make.

[Laika]

I'm not sure who these mythical elite bullpen arms people keep talking about if Romano isn't one of them. Short of Felix Bautista (who has blown 6 saves FYI)

 

All closers blow saves at a 10-15% rate (even Mo). Jordan Romano's career save percentage is identical to Mo's.

 

If you are looking for a guy with elite swing and miss, Richards is top 5 in k/9 (97 percentile in whiff rate and 99 percentile in chase rate) .

 

If you are looking for elite velo, Hicks is it.

 

Sure, we don't have someone who is elite at everything, but I'm not sure that exists.

 

The bullpen is stacked now. People are just used to mediocrity and can't see the forest for the trees at the moment.

 

Richards - elite whiff rate

Romano - elite projections, track record, stuff

Hicks - elite velo, stuff, and GB rate

Swanson - very good total package reliever

Mayza - elite results (ERA, lol)

Garcia - reliable strike-thrower, good stuff, probably unlucky so far

Cabrera - high upside second lefty

Green - wild card with elite history

Jackson - worthwhile journeyman

Francis - perfectly cromulent extra arm

 

When you consider that three or four of these names are almost irrelevant for playoff considerations, you realize how good it is right now.

 

If Yimi Garcia is the worst reliever in your pen then it is f***ing loaded. In past years this pen would have been Romano-Mayza-Yimi and then four scrubs.

 

Toronto has not had a bullpen this good in a long, long time.

[jaysblue]

So once Green joins the big club and Richards comes back you don't think this is one of best pens in the AL? Which bullpen has a lower whip than us this season?

 

I just said, let's hope Green comes back and if he's in the same form as he was with the Yankees, that would definitely change things haha.

[Jonn]

Berrios is a legit #2 and the bullpen is legit not sure what some of you are talking about

 

I would say Berrios is more of mid rotation starter. But his bounce back has been tremendous.

[John_Havok]

Would it surprise anyone to know that as of the completion of yesterdays games, the Jays have allowed the fewest runs in all of MLB at 482, and the pitching staff has the 3rd most strikeouts?

[jaysblue]

I'm not sure who these mythical elite bullpen arms people keep talking about if Romano isn't one of them. Short of Felix Bautista (who has blown 6 saves FYI)

 

All closers blow saves at a 10-15% rate (even Mo). Jordan Romano's career save percentage is identical to Mo's.

 

If you are looking for a guy with elite swing and miss, Richards is top 5 in k/9 (97 percentile in whiff rate and 99 percentile in chase rate) .

 

If you are looking for elite velo, Hicks is it.

 

Sure, we don't have someone who is elite at everything, but I'm not sure that exists.

 

Never said anything bad with Romano. He's a great closer and is reliable.

 

Richards has an elite K/9 this season and has been fantastic. I'm not sure he has been used much though in high leverage spots in a close 1-run game like in the 7th or 8th inning. Would be nice if he's given more opportunities given his success this season to see if he could be comfortable in that role.

 

Hicks has big velocity for sure. If he's going right, he could be a huge piece. Also can be erratic as well.

 

Green, if he returns to his old form, can be that missing piece of the puzzle in terms of that elite arm to bridge with Romano.

 

Overall, the Jays bullpen is really solid and has a lot of depth. As long as everyone is used properly, the bullpen will be more than fine, especially if the starters can go 6-7 innings in a close game.

[jaysblue]

Berrios is a legit #2 and the bullpen is legit not sure what some of you are talking about

 

Not sure I would say he's an ideal legit #2, though his bounce back this season has been huge for this team. Sometimes he will get hit around a bit and have short outings, otherwise he's been a very reliable arm for the Jays. Should finish with a 3 WAR. Obviously we'll see how he performs in the Postseason against other top arms, which will be the key!

 

I consider him a very high-end No. 3 or low end #2. Otherwise, we both agree he's been a real solid and reliable arm this year.

[jaysblue]

Berrios is like 29th in baseball in WAR from a starting pitcher. There certainly are better 1/2 combos in the game (Wheeler/Nola, Max/Eovaldi, Verlander/Framber), but it's really not a bad position to be in. It opens a good discussion on who the Jays would actually start in the playoffs. Kikuchi is pitching as well as anyone in baseball right now - a lot could change before October, but do you role with Gausman/Berrios/Bassit, knowing that Kikuchi is someone who could probably be lights out in the pen - maybe used in an Andrew Miller type role? It doesn't seem like Bassit or Berrios could play a similar role, but I could be wrong.

 

Or are you rolling with Kikuchi as your #2 given how dominant he's been lately? Do you piggyback Bassit and Kikuchi? 6-7 weeks to go, but those will be interesting decisions for the team to make.

 

Yeah agree with everything you just said. They're definitely some better 1/2 combos out there than Gausman and Berrios. Though still the Jays aren't in a bad position at all if they're your first two starters in a Postseason series. It's a good problem to have when you're discussing who should be your No. 2 and 3 starter in the Postseason versus scrambling for one.

 

Kikuchi hasn't really done anything lately where you would move him out of the rotation. In a short series, having a lefty would be good to throw out at your opponents. If Kikuchi isn't used in the rotation, would be interesting to see if he's used as a multi-inning reliever in the pen. Would be nice to see how he does in that role before the Postseason, but sometimes you have no choice to throw guys into the fire right away.

[thatoneguy]

This team would be questioning very few things right now if Vlad was even midway between his current self and his 2021 self. There is talk about the bullpen/starting pitching, but the reality is that it's the offense that is forcing the pitching to be near perfect and probably magnifying errors that are expected even from a great pitching staff. Doesn't help that Springer has been a black hole for large stretches of the season either, but Vlad is the primary reason. Your best talents need to be your best talents.

 

Gausman has been great, Berrios/Kikuchi being solid has helped with Manoah's fall from grace, Bassitt has no doubt been serviceable. Vlad is unacceptable.

[jaysblue]

This team would be questioning very few things right now if Vlad was even midway between his current self and his 2021 self. There is talk about the bullpen/starting pitching, but the reality is that it's the offense that is forcing the pitching to be near perfect and probably magnifying errors that are expected even from a great pitching staff. Doesn't help that Springer has been a black hole for large stretches of the season either, but Vlad is the primary reason. Your best talents need to be your best talents.

 

Gausman has been great, Berrios/Kikuchi being solid has helped with Manoah's fall from grace, Bassitt has no doubt been serviceable. Vlad is unacceptable.

 

It's crazy how far Vladdy has fallen. He's pretty much become a .270/.330/.450 type of bat. Pretty much Garrett Cooper territory haha.

 

Hopefully he's motivated in his FA year and has a monster season. For the Jays sake!

[Eat My Shatkins]

If Vlad, Kirk and Manoah were hitting projections the Jays would be pacing for 100+ wins

 

Hopefully this season is just a blip for these guys. They are supposed to be core pieces to build around.

[John_Havok]

If Vlad, Kirk and Manoah were hitting projections the Jays would be pacing for 100+ wins

 

Hopefully this season is just a blip for these guys. They are supposed to be core pieces to build around.

 

It's far less about Kirk out of that trio as he is back up to 93 wRC+ and still providing excellent defense. The bigger culprit offensively would be Varsho at 76, though again providing top tier defense and baserunning.