Former Blue Jays Thread

[metafour]

The current regime has definitely been better than AA when it comes to developing position player prospects, but has been extremely lacking when it comes to developing pitching.

 

Are they though?

 

I think this is one of those things where it's easy to see failure within yourself but fail to take light of what the actual difficulty/failure rate is universally. The Blue Jays are likely no worse than average here. For fun, I took a look at the Tampa Bay Rays' success with pitchers drafted within the first 3 rounds from 2017-2020, and the results are shockingly bad - and this is with 2-3x the sample size of Toronto's pitchers drafted within the first 3 rounds over the same timeframe (because Tampa Bay is awarded so many freaking compensatory picks). Out of something like 11 players drafted that high (nearly 3 per draft), they've produced Shane McClanahan - that's it. The rest is pretty much all slop, to the degree that Nate Pearson actually looks like a budding success story. And this is a team that is renowned for their drafting/development system.

 

There may be a few outlier teams league-wide in terms of being categorically superior in terms of pitcher development, but Toronto is not as bad as you probably perceive.

[BigCecil]

LGJ WAR 1.4

 

Varsho WAR 0.5

 

Which is saying something given LGJ has sucked for quite awhile now this season.

[Brownie19]

LGJ WAR 1.4

 

Varsho WAR 0.5

 

Which is saying something given LGJ has sucked for quite awhile now this season.

 

Varsho should be our 4th OFer for the remainder of this season. We need a legit starter in LF.

[Laika]

LGJ WAR 1.4

 

Varsho WAR 0.5

 

Which is saying something given LGJ has sucked for quite awhile now this season.

 

It's getting ugly. Varsho is in a complete tailspin this month. Just 5 hits in July.

 

His swing looks broken. It kind of seemed like he had turned a corner in June (.326 wOBA) but I guess not.

 

He is missing SO MANY hittable pitches from RHP.

 

Hilarious that Moreno and Varsho are both flopping and the throw-in piece is defining the early returns for the trade.

[Spanky99]

Varsho should be our 4th OFer for the remainder of this season. We need a legit starter in LF.

 

Nah, he just needs to move to CF. I like BC's idea of moving KK for a big bat in LF. Not sure if the Jays would do that though. Varsho's been pretty bad, I thought he made a turn for the better in June, but the struggles and frustration continue sadly.

[connorp]

It's getting ugly. Varsho is in a complete tailspin this month. Just 5 hits in July.

 

His swing looks broken. It kind of seemed like he had turned a corner in June (.326 wOBA) but I guess not.

 

He is missing SO MANY hittable pitches from RHP.

 

Hilarious that Moreno and Varsho are both flopping and the throw-in piece is defining the early returns for the trade.

 

Except one is a rookie and it’s less troubling. Plus, you guys slob Jansen’s knob anytime he gets back up to .720 OPS, so he doesn’t have too far to go.

[Omar]

Nah, he just needs to move to CF. I like BC's idea of moving KK for a big bat in LF. Not sure if the Jays would do that though. Varsho's been pretty bad, I thought he made a turn for the better in June, but the struggles and frustration continue sadly.

 

Come playoff time I want KK on the roster no matter what.

[BigCecil]

Except one is a rookie and it’s less troubling. Plus, you guys slob Jansen’s knob anytime he gets back up to .720 OPS, so he doesn’t have too far to go.

 

Ya. I see Moreno in a different light given the position he plays isn’t LF and it’s too early to know what his bat will be with any certainty, and Varsho has 1400 PAs and is 27. Also funny the other guy who is often brought up in this discussion around that deal is Kirk whose bat has him morphing into a fatter slower version of Moreno (so far).

[Spanky99]

Come playoff time I want KK on the roster no matter what.

 

I hear ya, we'll see what happens in the next 12 days or so.

[BigCecil]

Come playoff time I want KK on the roster no matter what.

 

They PH him last night for Espy. Virtually nobody should be untouchable. Depends on the deal and the need (net gain). We would all like to keep him.

[Jonn]

Come playoff time I want KK on the roster no matter what.

 

One shot. Fate of the Universe on the line. I want Igoudala

[Jonn]

Nah, he just needs to move to CF. I like BC's idea of moving KK for a big bat in LF. Not sure if the Jays would do that though. Varsho's been pretty bad, I thought he made a turn for the better in June, but the struggles and frustration continue sadly.

 

f*** no. Kiermaier is a much better player. Varsho needs to be parked on the bench. With a LF masher brought in.

[glory]

I wonder if the Jays would have the balls to have Varsho as the 4th OF for the rest of the season, assuming they picked up a LF in a trade. This was the big move of the off season so it would be admitting defeat in some cases, but it would only be temporary as he's certainly the starting CF next season and beyond. He's just not helping the 2023 team, and that's kinda important.

[Brownie19]

I wonder if the Jays would have the balls to have Varsho as the 4th OF for the rest of the season, assuming they picked up a LF in a trade. This was the big move of the off season so it would be admitting defeat in some cases, but it would only be temporary as he's certainly the starting CF next season and beyond. He's just not helping the 2023 team, and that's kinda important.

 

This is exactly how he should be used for the remainder of the 2023 season. Corner OFers are a dime a dozen and are cheap to acquire. The solution should be a pretty easy one for the Jays to fix. If Ryu/Green come back healthy and contribute, the Jays can simply send Manoah into the abyss, move Varsho to the 4th OF spot and will only really need to trade for a productive LFer (ideally who's RH).

 

Mark Canha

Tommy Pham (although he's probably a ****)

Bellinger

Duvall

Lane Thomas

 

You could also trade for a legit 2nd baseman (aren't many of them) and move Whit to LF full time.

[bluejaysinternNo5]

Why not get our old pal Brandon Drury back and move Whit to LF

[BigCecil]

Come playoff time I want KK on the roster no matter what.

 

We actually have to make the playoffs first bud and when Espy is PH'ing for KK because of the giant gap in the offence (or just a dumb decision - thats another issue) we need to fill it to make the playoffs.

 

Its not ordained that we are in the playoffs (inserts painful memories of 2021 here again)

 

How we fill the gap and with whom, is a good debate/discussion, but we need to fill it.

[Stangstag]

This is exactly how he should be used for the remainder of the 2023 season. Corner OFers are a dime a dozen and are cheap to acquire. The solution should be a pretty easy one for the Jays to fix. If Ryu/Green come back healthy and contribute, the Jays can simply send Manoah into the abyss, move Varsho to the 4th OF spot and will only really need to trade for a productive LFer (ideally who's RH).

 

Mark Canha

Tommy Pham (although he's probably a ****)

Bellinger

Duvall

Lane Thomas

 

You could also trade for a legit 2nd baseman (aren't many of them) and move Whit to LF full time.

 

Canha is a nice target

[Terminator]

Why not get our old pal Brandon Drury back and move Whit to LF

 

I f***ing hate that guy. Atkins gave him FOREVER to get it going and he never did. Finally, with his 5th organization he turns into the 3 WAR player we all hoped he'd be.

 

But yeah I'd take him back lol

[Laika]

Gurriel Jr. is circling the toilet.

 

Down to a 99 wRC+ and 1 WAR. That means he has been atrocious for weeks because last I checked he was close to 2 WAR or something.

[Terminator]

Everyone in that deal suxxx

[Spanky99]

Gurriel Jr. is circling the toilet.

 

Down to a 99 wRC+ and 1 WAR. That means he has been atrocious for weeks because last I checked he was close to 2 WAR or something.

 

I just bench him in fantasy now. Oof...

[Spanky99]

Why not get our old pal Brandon Drury back and move Whit to LF

 

He's staying in Cali...

[Jonn]

Everyone in that deal suxxx

 

Moreno is 23.

[Stangstag]

Gurriel Jr. is circling the toilet.

 

Down to a 99 wRC+ and 1 WAR. That means he has been atrocious for weeks because last I checked he was close to 2 WAR or something.

 

Completely unexpected…

[hanton]

Anthony Kay is on the mound right now for the Cubs

[204Jays]

Remember Austin Martin… woof

[Jonn]

Remember Austin Martin… woof

 

That trade was a disaster for the Twins.

[Spanky99]

Remember Austin Martin… woof

 

lol

[WryNGinger]

Funny how the trolls slober over the Varsho trade while nary a mention goes by regarding the Martin/Richardson trade that landed the team their current AL wild card starter for game one.

[Stangstag]

That trade was a disaster for the Twins.

 

When was the last time this FO traded a guy that didn’t end up being a complete disappointment?? Am I blanking here? Seems like every elite prospect we trade away ends up amounting to nothing