Former Blue Jays Thread

[AMS528]

MLB Network interviewed Frasso and they specifically asked him about the difference between the jays and dodgers and he said the pitching development - it wasn't anything against the Jays but interesting that was the 1st question and he answered it without hesitation

 

He's in AAA now, never know they could call him, this trade is difficult to take tbh

 

He's got great strikeout numbers no doubt, but his overall numbers in AA weren't that great. It may be that he had a few difficult starts that had his ERA higher, but he's not like a no doubt guy. He will in all likelihood as a reliever or starter produce more than Mitch White who was a complete negative here, practically be default.

 

On the plus side for him, he has actually managed to pitch 80 innings this year.

[Terminator]

25 year old future superstar Nick Frasso has a 6.47 xFIP in AAA right now. Just saying.

[max silver]

25 year old future superstar Nick Frasso has a 6.47 xFIP in AAA right now. Just saying.

 

Yeah there's tons of predictive value in xFIP after 6 total innings after all. We'll just ignore the 3.72 xFIP in a much larger 73 inning sample as it doesn't fit the chosen Nick Frasso sucks narrative you're presenting.

[hanton]

He's got great strikeout numbers no doubt, but his overall numbers in AA weren't that great. It may be that he had a few difficult starts that had his ERA higher, but he's not like a no doubt guy. He will in all likelihood as a reliever or starter produce more than Mitch White who was a complete negative here, practically be default.

 

On the plus side for him, he has actually managed to pitch 80 innings this year.

 

the Dodgers produce a s*** ton of pitchers like this - I think he ends up being a long reliever out of the pen / spot starter. Very valuable though in todays game especially if he can miss bats and yes he had terrible June

[hanton]

25 year old future superstar Nick Frasso has a 6.47 xFIP in AAA right now. Just saying.

 

6 innings, come on.

[Terminator]

6 innings, come on.

 

Yeah there's tons of predictive value in xFIP after 6 total innings after all. We'll just ignore the 3.72 xFIP in a much larger 73 inning sample as it doesn't fit the chosen Nick Frasso sucks narrative you're presenting.

 

Geeze Louise you guys, I put "just saying" at the end of my post. Cut me some slack here.

[Terminator]

25 year old AA pitcher with an ERA of 4.11 at the level. Just saying.

[RustyTrombone]

Just to be an ******* Ill say this:

 

25 yo pitcher with numerous arm injuries finally stays healthy for an extended period of time, showcases plus major league stuff, advances to highest level of minor league baseball after posting solid stats (ps. minor league numbers for pitchers should be taken with a pinch of salt, stuff is what matters the most), for the most well run organization in baseball.

 

I was all in on the Frasso hype train last year, im still on it, but seems like his stuff has taken a step back, last year he was flirting with 100 and this year reports say hes more 94-97ish. Will he be a stud starter? Probably not, maybe more of a Mitch White type swing man with better stuff but Im not gonna be upset we traded him anymore since we got Bowden Francis in that role.

[Laika]

There is also the little Alex De Jesus wait-and-see factor.

 

It could play out like this: Frasso looks good and is useful for a year or two for the Dodgers, then blows out his arm, and then over 6 years of control De Jesus is a useful utility man for Toronto and at the end of the day nobody f***ing cares about the trade!

 

in 2030 my son might ask me, dad how the Toronto steal Alex De Jesus from the Dodgers!? then i will tell him the story of Mitchy White and Nicky Frazzo

[metafour]

Frasso's AAA debut:

 

Sat pretty much 92-94mph. Threw 10 pitches over 95mph and topped out at 97.

 

Looking at the pitch by pitch tracker, his velocity dropped after about ~35 pitches. His fastball was mainly averaging 92-93 from pitch ~#35-80.

 

Another thing: he had just 5 whiffs on a total of 80 pitches. His fastball in particular only had 1 whiff on 51 pitches.

 

His overall line in the start looks good, but the stuff is down and really wasn't impressive by MLB standards. And therein lies the concern over his future profile: is his stuff ever going to hold up over a normal starter workload? He's at ~80 IP on the season which is a career high, but if he's already getting "tired" in an 80-pitch outing then he isn't doing much to squash the reliever vibes. Like someone mentioned above, he was 97-100 mph in outings prior to us trading him, so an outing wherein he's mainly throwing 92 mph is way down.

 

Mitch White in his most recent AAA start: 95 mph average on his fastball with 5 whiffs on 36 pitches. Not making any sort of statement, but Frasso's actual stuff is worth monitoring.

[hanton]

Frasso's AAA debut:

 

Sat pretty much 92-94mph. Threw 10 pitches over 95mph and topped out at 97.

 

Looking at the pitch by pitch tracker, his velocity dropped after about ~35 pitches. His fastball was mainly averaging 92-93 from pitch ~#35-80.

 

Another thing: he had just 5 whiffs on a total of 80 pitches. His fastball in particular only had 1 whiff on 51 pitches.

 

His overall line in the start looks good, but the stuff is down and really wasn't impressive by MLB standards. And therein lies the concern over his future profile: is his stuff ever going to hold up over a normal starter workload? He's at ~80 IP on the season which is a career high, but if he's already getting "tired" in an 80-pitch outing then he isn't doing much to squash the reliever vibes. Like someone mentioned above, he was 97-100 mph in outings prior to us trading him, so an outing wherein he's mainly throwing 92 mph is way down.

 

Mitch White in his most recent AAA start: 95 mph average on his fastball with 5 whiffs on 36 pitches. Not making any sort of statement, but Frasso's actual stuff is worth monitoring.

 

he's not getting tired, Frasso has never pitched deep into games it's only now that they are starting to stretch him out

[Jonn]

25 year old future superstar Nick Frasso has a 6.47 xFIP in AAA right now. Just saying.

 

Wow. Almost like he's only made one start lmao. The f*** is this comment

[Jonn]

There is also the little Alex De Jesus wait-and-see factor.

 

It could play out like this: Frasso looks good and is useful for a year or two for the Dodgers, then blows out his arm, and then over 6 years of control De Jesus is a useful utility man for Toronto and at the end of the day nobody f***ing cares about the trade!

 

in 2030 my son might ask me, dad how the Toronto steal Alex De Jesus from the Dodgers!? then i will tell him the story of Mitchy White and Nicky Frazzo

 

Alex De Jesus will never play a Major League Baseball game for the Toronto Blue Jays.

[Laika]

Alex De Jesus will never play a Major League Baseball game for the Toronto Blue Jays.

 

Suck eggs, dork

[Terminator]

Wow. Almost like he's only made one start lmao. The f*** is this comment

 

Ok well now it's two starts and the future superstar's xFIP is 7.47.

[Terminator]

He's in his mid 20s, his medicals are longer than a CVS receipt and he's got a 4.63 K/9 in AAA lol

 

Any rag that put this guy in the Top 100 isn't serious

[hanton]

He's in his mid 20s, his medicals are longer than a CVS receipt and he's got a 4.63 K/9 in AAA lol

 

Any rag that put this guy in the Top 100 isn't serious

 

It's the Dodger way, they just promoted to AAA, it's how they do things

[hanton]

...give him time to settle in

[Jonn]

He's in his mid 20s, his medicals are longer than a CVS receipt and he's got a 4.63 K/9 in AAA lol

 

Any rag that put this guy in the Top 100 isn't serious

 

You're actively rooting for this guy to fail. It's f***ing weird.

[Terminator]

You're actively rooting for this guy to fail. It's f***ing weird.

 

Well you're actively rooting for this guy to succeed and he's not even on our team anymore pal

[Terminator]

Imagine simping for a mid 20s AAA pitcher with a 7.50 xFIP who isn't even in our organization and then you have the stones to tell someone that they are weird? lol wow buddy

[BigCecil]

Moreno slugging .686 with .400 OBP the last 15 gms. .609 slug over last 30 gms. Kids officially a 101 wRC+ bat.

 

Varsho back in the abyss slugging .352 the last 15 gms.

[Laika]

Gabriel Moreno is who we thought they thought we thought he thought he was, after all!

[Brownie19]

I know Seattle is now firmly back in the race and such and thus it probably was never going to happen, but man - if we could have gotten Teo at the deadline like most of us were suggesting, we'd be laughing right now.

 

189 wRC+ in August

182 wRC+ in September (so far)

 

He's up to a 113 wRC+ for the season and almost 2 WAR. He would have been an absolute perfect fit for this team down the stretch. I'm really happy for the guy. Love Teo. He's probably in line for a solid payday now - maybe a 3 year deal in the $45-$60M range?

Edited September 6, 2023 by Brownie19

[jaysblue]

I know Seattle is now firming back in the race and such and thus it probably was never going to happen, but man - if we could have gotten Teo at the deadline like most of us were suggesting, we'd be laughing right now.

 

189 wRC+ in August

182 wRC+ in September (so far)

 

He's up to a 113 wRC+ for the season and almost 2 WAR. He would have been an absolute perfect fit for this team down the stretch. I'm really happy for the guy. Love Teo. He's probably in line for a solid payday now - maybe a 3 year deal in the $45-$60M range?

 

Yeah if he continues to hit like he has been, there could be a team that offers him a 2 or 3 year deal. Don't think a one-year deal signs him anymore. Unless it's $18-20M. We'll also see how the corner OF market shapes up.

 

Teo would have been a perfect bat for this lineup at the trade deadline. Has had success here in Toronto and in their clubhouse, has put up some big months here and was a fan favourite. It's too bad Seattle wasn't selling him but oh well.

 

I still like Swanson and the job he has done here, plus the years of control. But a part of me still misses Teo and when you look at the Jays struggles this season, Teo might have had a larger overall impact on the team this season.

[Laika]

I know Seattle is now firmly back in the race and such and thus it probably was never going to happen, but man - if we could have gotten Teo at the deadline like most of us were suggesting, we'd be laughing right now.

 

189 wRC+ in August

182 wRC+ in September (so far)

 

He's up to a 113 wRC+ for the season and almost 2 WAR. He would have been an absolute perfect fit for this team down the stretch. I'm really happy for the guy. Love Teo. He's probably in line for a solid payday now - maybe a 3 year deal in the $45-$60M range?

 

Similar players (Castellanos, Schwarber) have received more money than that

 

I would not be *shocked* to see Teo get something closer to their contracts. You can also argue somewhat convincingly, even though he is a bad defender and his baserunning his slipped negative, that Teoscar is a more well rounded player than both of those guys.

 

Never underestimate what a team desperate for PRODUCTION will pay for a big bat

[Spanky99]

Yeah if he continues to hit like he has been, there could be a team that offers him a 2 or 3 year deal. Don't think a one-year deal signs him anymore. Unless it's $18-20M. We'll also see how the corner OF market shapes up.

 

Teo would have been a perfect bat for this lineup at the trade deadline. Has had success here in Toronto and in their clubhouse, has put up some big months here and was a fan favourite. It's too bad Seattle wasn't selling him but oh well.

 

I still like Swanson and the job he has done here, plus the years of control. But a part of me still misses Teo and when you look at the Jays struggles this season, Teo might have had a larger overall impact on the team this season.

 

Well this season was obvious, they got plenty of years service for Swanson but you're forgetting the money saved and acquisition of KK and Macko make that pretty much a no brainer. Excellent trade.

[metafour]

Well this season was obvious, they got plenty of years service for Swanson but you're forgetting the money saved and acquisition of KK and Macko make that pretty much a no brainer. Excellent trade.

 

Exactly.

 

Teoscar makes $14 mill this season. Swanson makes $1.3 mill. They paid Kiermaier $9 mill for a 2.1 fWAR season. And they got a high-upside arm in Macko. It's a no-brainer smart trade for this FO.

 

Swanson and Kiermaier have 3.1 fWAR this season at less money than Teoscar's 1.9 fWAR.

[Laika]

The 2023 Blue Jays would definitely have been a bit better if they didn't do the trade, but that was always going to be the trade-off.

 

Downgrade in 2023 for "years of control" of a pitching prospect who will never make it and a reliever who would not be an athlete in any other sport.

 

 

 

I think if Teoscar never gets traded his WAR this year is much higher. Kind of assuming his s***** first half was due to pressing, etc.

[jaysblue]

Exactly.

 

Teoscar makes $14 mill this season. Swanson makes $1.3 mill. They paid Kiermaier $9 mill for a 2.1 fWAR season. And they got a high-upside arm in Macko. It's a no-brainer smart trade for this FO.

 

Swanson and Kiermaier have 3.1 fWAR this season at less money than Teoscar's 1.9 fWAR.

 

Yup I never said anything bad about the trade at all, even at the time. All I said was that given the Jays offensive struggles this season, Teo's bat would have still been great to have.

 

But for me saying that, it's hilarious how you feel the need to rush in to defend Atkins and the FO on the trade, when I never even said anything bad about them or that trade.