General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[jaysblue]

He shared a post which called for the boycott of a Jays sponsor. That you cannot separate opinions.

 

What I'm saying is that is a measurable. If a sponsor threatens to pull out...it has a value.

 

Budweiser cares so much about their ESG score! As do most big companies these days!

 

They're not pulling out lol. They would be crazy to do so!

[Carlos Danger]

I’m fine with keeping the discussions strictly Baseball/Blue Jays related. But we live in a world where we are constantly walking on egg shells and it’s frustrating. It’s pouring over into sports and it’s going to pour into sports discussion. People use these words like inclusion, safe spaces, and acceptance. But I have never felt more foreign, uncomfortable, and out of place in this world as I do now. That could be me problem I don’t know.

 

Good f***ing post Jonn!

[Carlos Danger]

usually losing sponsors. Remember that Budweiser is the Jays beer sponsor. If it came down to that relationship or a player...that player better be good.

 

In Budweiser's current position and market share. No fnnn way they pick that fight or withdraw from a major sponsorship like that.. I get what you are saying though..

[WryNGinger]

I’m fine with keeping the discussions strictly Baseball/Blue Jays related. But we live in a world where we are constantly walking on egg shells and it’s frustrating. It’s pouring over into sports and it’s going to pour into sports discussion. People use these words like inclusion, safe spaces, and acceptance. But I have never felt more foreign, uncomfortable, and out of place in this world as I do now. That could be meblem I don’t know.

 

I don't feel foreign or uncomfortable but I do sense that the narrative has little to do with my perceived situation. My actual life certainly does. A society to an outsider may seem in uniform...but the newcomer feels the same ostracization.

[Sorrow]

looks like pretty definitive mechanical problems if his pacing is all messed up. I don't really buy the pitch clock as a reason though, since in 2023 he's not actually rushing his delivery, it's slower and out of sync and it's readily apparent from the first pitch of the game when fatigue and pitch clocks arent an issue.

 

The good news is it should be fixable

 

I think it's likely fixable but what they almost need to do is option Manoah to AAA then move him to the development list or whatever it is called to send him to Florida to literally just get his mechanics in check. I don't think he can correct this at the big league level. This could in theory be just him working out, and getting mechanics in check with a pitch clock without the pressure from a game.

[TheHurl]

Budweiser cares so much about their ESG score! As do most big companies these days!

 

They're not pulling out lol. They would be crazy to do so!

 

quick back lesson here. Connor asked how a team could measure harm to the team. I gave an example of a measurable ,and how the team might weigh it (sponsor angry, vs value of the player) . I used Bud because of it's pertinence with recent events. I have never once assumed Bud might have an issue here. Completely made up scenario, judging by the fact that Bass did not mention the sponsor, in his presser, I would say that it is a non issue.

 

Not sure if some people don't get it...or they want a different discussion to take place.

 

In Budweiser's current position and market share. No fnnn way they pick that fight or withdraw from a major sponsorship like that.. I get what you are saying though..

 

See I appreciate this. You got your viewpoint out, and then acknowledged understanding. PS you can say f***ING on here.

[connorp]

I think it's likely fixable but what they almost need to do is option Manoah to AAA then move him to the development list or whatever it is called to send him to Florida to literally just get his mechanics in check. I don't think he can correct this at the big league level. This could in theory be just him working out, and getting mechanics in check with a pitch clock without the pressure from a game.

 

Yeah, I like Manoah but he’s not some World Series hero or anything. I don’t know why they’re f***ing around here. It’s not going to fix itself at the mlb level

[mphenhef]

Yeah, I like Manoah but he’s not some World Series hero or anything. I don’t know why they’re f***ing around here. It’s not going to fix itself at the mlb level

 

A lot of people have said it is because they have no one better to call up to replace him, but at this point I don't get that argument. Even if the person you call up is just as bad or even slightly worse (if that is even possible?) the gain you make if a month of that allows you to get Manoah right would be well worth it. It's been two months, it's not happening at the major league level.

[jaysblue]

It would just be better to send Manoah down to work things out and hope he can return after the All Star break. In the long term, Jays are a better team if they can get Manoah back to being a 2/3 starter.

 

I don't think Manoah's replacement would be any worse right now. Heck, even use an opener and a bulk reliever if you have to when it's Manoah's turn in the rotation for a couple of weeks.

[Spanky99]

What happened in the GDT, for it to be closed?

[Olerud363]

What happened in the GDT, for it to be closed?

 

No idea.

 

Jays apparently lost without striking out. Thought there was an interesting discussion about that so weird to see the thread closed. Guess people couldn't resist giving their two cents when Tony Bass got booed.

 

Will any Jays pull dat ball today? Or just some 390 foot fly outs to center (or maybe a double if it's slightly off center like Biggio's last night, Vladdy's was dead center so just a fly out).

 

Will Jays strike out today? Will they walk? Will they hit a homerun?

 

Aaron Judge will probably have 2 of each in a hypothetical long game where he gets 6 at bats.

 

Will they lose because some weaking like Toro pulls a 348 foot ball down the line?

[Olerud363]

No idea.

 

Jays apparently lost without striking out. Thought there was an interesting discussion about that so weird to see the thread closed. Guess people couldn't resist giving their two cents when Tony Bass got booed.

 

Will any Jays pull dat ball today? Or just some 390 foot fly outs to center (or maybe a double if it's slightly off center like Biggio's last night, Vladdy's was dead center so just a fly out).

 

Will Jays strike out today? Will they walk? Will they hit a homerun?

 

Aaron Judge will probably have 2 of each in a hypothetical long game where he gets 6 at bats.

 

Will they lose because some weaking like Toro pulls a 348 foot ball down the line?

 

 

I know it's funny when even I am talkin' pull dat ball. What I mean is pull some of the fly balls. Like it would be interesting to see some Jays players pull/center/oppo percentages on fly balls and ground balls.

 

Like pull dat ball and kill the 3rd base coach, or pull dat ball into a double play isn't good... or swing at everything trying to pull dat ball and have a .280 on base percentage isn't good.

 

What is good is like the 1993, or 2003, or 2015 Jays and just get 850-900 runs, like probably need some walks, some oppo and some pull dat ball in even ratios.

 

I think a lot of guys on this board would be a good owner. Like they wouldn't quite know enough to be hitting coach, but they could help interview the GM and make sure he will hire a hitting coach who can 'pull dat ball' just the right amount, like not so little you get beat by Toros 347 foot homer, while having a few 390 foot flyouts, but not so much everyone hits .238.

[Brownie19]

I thought making more contact and manufacturing runs was how you won in the playoffs? People have been bitching about that on here for years. We finally do it and now we're bitching that we can't win or make the playoffs with an offense like that. I guess that's exactly what I should expect around here.

[TheHurl]

Yeah, I like Manoah but he’s not some World Series hero or anything. I don’t know why they’re f***ing around here. It’s not going to fix itself at the mlb level

Why can't it be solved at the MLB level? This is often a media talking point. Is this something that MLB coaches and F.O.'s believe? I can see it if confidence is the issue. But for small mechanical changes or coaching...your best coaches should be here at this level.

[Olerud363]

I thought making more contact and manufacturing runs was how you won in the playoffs? People have been bitching about that on here for years. We finally do it and now we're bitching that we can't win or make the playoffs with an offense like that. I guess that's exactly what I should expect around here.

 

The people bitching now aren't the same ones that think you need to manufacture runs. I don't remember any historic bunts in Blue Jays history, I remember the Sprague, Alomar and Carter homeruns. I vaguely remember losing to Detroit 1-0 in 87 because some guy hit a homerun... I remember Carlos f***ing Santana first got our old manager Charlie fired because he hit game winning homeruns on back to back days, then he started the big comeback against our new manager, John, by hitting a 3 run homerun.

 

I remember watching the Astros win the World series on a 3 run homerun by Alvarez. I remember f***ing Judge winning multiple games with homeruns (happens all the time, but most recent was like 2 weeks ago).

 

Still trying to remember historic bunts. I am sure there are some, but ... hmmm ...

 

I remember f***ing Jose Bautista got f***ing punched and almost knocked out because he hit such a big homerun and bat-flipped in the playoffs the year before.

 

Still not remembering any historic small ball...

 

I do remember KC in 2014 and 2015 getting a bunch of clustered hits at 'just the right time' (game 4 2015 ALDS, game 2 2015 ALCS, a couple of 2015 world series games, 2014 wild card game, a lot of hits at "just the right time", in retrospect was like sign stealing).

[Olerud363]

I thought making more contact and manufacturing runs was how you won in the playoffs? People have been bitching about that on here for years. We finally do it and now we're bitching that we can't win or make the playoffs with an offense like that. I guess that's exactly what I should expect around here.

 

 

Order of importance for offense

 

Homeruns

On base

Sign stealing

Amphetamines

Weight lifting and strength building

bunts and small ball

[Brownie19]

The most famous bunt I remember was crackhead Otis Nixon when he handed Timlin and the Jays their first World Series Championship

[Olerud363]

I thought making more contact and manufacturing runs was how you won in the playoffs? People have been bitching about that on here for years. We finally do it and now we're bitching that we can't win or make the playoffs with an offense like that. I guess that's exactly what I should expect around here.

 

Not really directing this at you, but serious question. What are the great small-ball games people remember? Who is the greatest small ball team ever? Who is the greatest small ball team of recent memory?

 

I was thinking 2014/2015 KC might be... but I honestly think they were sign stealing, just looking back at the multiple clusters of hits at just the right time. They probably had a system which they only used when needed.

[Brownie19]

Not really directing this at you, but serious question. What are the great small-ball games people remember? Who is the greatest small ball team ever? Who is the greatest small ball team of recent memory?

 

I was thinking 2014/2015 KC might be... but I honestly think they were sign stealing, just looking back at the multiple clusters of hits at just the right time. They probably had a system which they only used when needed.

 

I think people will point to the Dodgers and Astros over the past few years - both of whom I believe had some of the best K rates in baseball. Not to say they didn't also have power, but the thought was in the playoffs, when the pitching gets tougher - you need hitters who make more contact.

[G-Snarls]

Why can't it be solved at the MLB level? This is often a media talking point. Is this something that MLB coaches and F.O.'s believe? I can see it if confidence is the issue. But for small mechanical changes or coaching...your best coaches should be here at this level.

 

Also who will take his place and be as good or better if he goes to Buffalo for a month? No one at the moment.

[Spanky99]

Also who will take his place and be as good or better if he goes to Buffalo for a month? No one at the moment.

 

Bowden Francis is the guy ATM. If they were to do it.

[Pendleton]

Bowden Francis is the guy ATM. If they were to do it.

 

[keggy]

 

Francis is coming back from injury, but he's the only real option here. Everyone else has a lower floor and ceiling than Manoah.

 

Bullpen days could work and the front office would cream their pants from micromanaging. But this would probably destroy our bullpen and we don't really have enough optionable guys to make this work.

[jaysblue]

Why can't it be solved at the MLB level? This is often a media talking point. Is this something that MLB coaches and F.O.'s believe? I can see it if confidence is the issue. But for small mechanical changes or coaching...your best coaches should be here at this level.

 

Given the Jays looking to contend, putting Manoah on the mound every 5th day and waiting till he figures it out is hurting them more than helping. As well, if you say its a confidence issue, let him go to AAA and have some dominant outings. Might help him when he gets back up here. Otherwise, he is hurting the Jays more than helping and the goal should be to get him right to being a No. 2/3 starter again. I'm sure the Jays could use an opener for a couple turns then go with Richards or Pearson to follow afterwards.

[jaysblue]

I thought making more contact and manufacturing runs was how you won in the playoffs? People have been bitching about that on here for years. We finally do it and now we're bitching that we can't win or make the playoffs with an offense like that. I guess that's exactly what I should expect around here.

 

[Brownie19]

Anyone know how the new dimensions and configuration within the dome are playing out so far? Is it more hitter friendly than last year?

[wilko]

 

I hope we never see Thompson with the Jays this year. He's been terrible.

[The_DH]

Seems like time to clear out all that AAA junk and maybe bring in a free agent? Manoah should not be starting right now. Might even be dangerous for him.

[connorp]

Why can't it be solved at the MLB level? This is often a media talking point. Is this something that MLB coaches and F.O.'s believe? I can see it if confidence is the issue. But for small mechanical changes or coaching...your best coaches should be here at this level.

 

I’m not sure why it can’t, but the results say it isn’t getting fixed.

I’m sure they’re working with him between starts but something isn’t working.

It’s like a hitter, there’s a difference between some tweaks and breaking down a swing mid-season.

 

He may just need to be demoted bc he’s not good enough to be pitching against Mlb, but you want to save his pride

[Laika]

If his problems are mental, then demoting him makes sense. Mental reset.

 

If his problems are physical (fitness), then demoting him does not make sense from the perspective of making Manoah better. He's not going to be skinnier in Buffalo. But he has been so bad that you can justify demoting him simply to get a better SP in the rotation.

 

So.... you have to send him packing very soon. I would say TODAY but the team clearly wants to give him some more chances.

 

At this point you kind of start thinking "what is going to motivate this guy to get in better shape in the winter". 2023 almost becomes a lost cause.