General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[max silver]

 

Ethan Diamandas

@EthanDiamandas

 

#BlueJays will no longer be treating Mitch White as a starting pitching option, John Schneider says. White is now bulk/multi-inning relief.

 

Given how bad the depth options have been and the fact Hutchison recently opted out that's a really damning indication of how the front office views White right now.

[Masterbather]

Given how bad the depth options have been and the fact Hutchison recently opted out that's a really damning indication of how the front office views White right now.

I can't believe we honestly came into this season without a real f***ing plan for our rotation depth. It was such a massive problem down the stretch last year and the idiots in the front office did nothing about it.

[jaysblue]

I can't believe we honestly came into this season without a real f***ing plan for our rotation depth. It was such a massive problem down the stretch last year and the idiots in the front office did nothing about it.

 

Jays are lucky their starting 5 have been pretty much healthy to this point.

 

Imagine losing one or two of Gausman, Bassitt or Berrios to the IL for an extended period of time.

[The_DH]

Given how bad the depth options have been and the fact Hutchison recently opted out that's a really damning indication of how the front office views White right now.

 

He's done.

[max silver]

I can't believe we honestly came into this season without a real f***ing plan for our rotation depth. It was such a massive problem down the stretch last year and the idiots in the front office did nothing about it.

 

I think they tried to amass some depth, it just unfortunately all ended up being s***. White got hurt and never regained his ability to retire even minor league hitters, Hutchison wasn't lighting the world on fire and then opted out, Zulueta couldn't find the strike zone, Thompson continued being awful even in AAA, Hatch was turned into a reliever, etc. I don't think there is an exact science to accumulating quality depth aside from developing it yourself, and the organization's top starting prospects are still in AA and below.

[John_Havok]

I can't believe we honestly came into this season without a real f***ing plan for our rotation depth. It was such a massive problem down the stretch last year and the idiots in the front office did nothing about it.

 

White was part of that plan, he's been hurt and terrible. Ditto Thompson. Nobody down in Buffalo was able to take the next steps they needed to.

 

THere's also only so many guys out there willing to sign minor league deals to pitch in Buffalo on the off chance they get a shot at some point during the season.

[glory]

To Atkins’ credit he doesn’t make many bad trades, but man did he whiff on Mitch White. Trading an actual prospect for a swing man with average stuff who became a bulk reliever less than 12 months later is just awful. Hopefully from now on these swing man types are developed internally.

[Masterbather]

White was part of that plan, he's been hurt and terrible. Ditto Thompson. Nobody down in Buffalo was able to take the next steps they needed to.

 

THere's also only so many guys out there willing to sign minor league deals to pitch in Buffalo on the off chance they get a shot at some point during the season.

 

White was already terrible, he's part of the reason why we struggled so much to find depth last year because he didn't get it done. Maybe he could have found something this year, he was a little bit intriguing, but to count on that? We didn't really have anyone that we necessarily expected to take a step in Buffalo, we were just hoping. The plan was just a wing and a prayer. That's not a very good plan. This failure goes beyond just this recent offseason, it's an organizational failure that we don't even have depth that we can turn to, let alone a front line prospect, that we trust to even give us five competitive innings.

 

Other contenders have figured out a way, it has to be better. How can we count ourselves a contender and leave ourselves this vulnerable? Manoah can s*** the bed for another 5 starts and we have no choice but to ride him out. God help us if anyone gets hurt.

[wilko]

White was part of that plan, he's been hurt and terrible. Ditto Thompson. Nobody down in Buffalo was able to take the next steps they needed to.

 

THere's also only so many guys out there willing to sign minor league deals to pitch in Buffalo on the off chance they get a shot at some point during the season.

 

Dan Plesac's son!

[max silver]

White was already terrible, he's part of the reason why we struggled so much to find depth last year because he didn't get it done. Maybe he could have found something this year, he was a little bit intriguing, but to count on that? We didn't really have anyone that we necessarily expected to take a step in Buffalo, we were just hoping. The plan was just a wing and a prayer. That's not a very good plan. This failure goes beyond just this recent offseason, it's an organizational failure that we don't even have depth that we can turn to, let alone a front line prospect, that we trust to even give us five competitive innings.

 

Other contenders have figured out a way, it has to be better. How can we count ourselves a contender and leave ourselves this vulnerable? Manoah can s*** the bed for another 5 starts and we have no choice but to ride him out. God help us if anyone gets hurt.

 

Did you miss that the front office signed Hutchison and Thompson? They had White on hand already who has had some success in MLB, and some other internal options that needed opportunities at AAA to continue to develop. This isn't nearly as bad as you are trying to make it out to be. If you don't have starters in the upper levels of the minors who are ready to contribute right away you sign a bunch of s*** in the offseason and end up hoping that some of them can provide a few innings for you, unfortunately the guys they signed were either awful or opted out due to lack of opportunity.

[Spanky99]

Given how bad the depth options have been and the fact Hutchison recently opted out that's a really damning indication of how the front office views White right now.

 

Agreed, says a loud he f***ing suxxxxx message to all of us, which just blows. That trade ain't looking good in hindsight.

[Spanky99]

Jays are lucky their starting 5 have been pretty much healthy to this point.

 

Imagine losing one or two of Gausman, Bassitt or Berrios to the IL for an extended period of time.

 

Imagine anyone losing that type of s***, lol.

[Spanky99]

I think they tried to amass some depth, it just unfortunately all ended up being s***. White got hurt and never regained his ability to retire even minor league hitters, Hutchison wasn't lighting the world on fire and then opted out, Zulueta couldn't find the strike zone, Thompson continued being awful even in AAA, Hatch was turned into a reliever, etc. I don't think there is an exact science to accumulating quality depth aside from developing it yourself, and the organization's top starting prospects are still in AA and below.

 

White was part of that plan, he's been hurt and terrible. Ditto Thompson. Nobody down in Buffalo was able to take the next steps they needed to.

 

THere's also only so many guys out there willing to sign minor league deals to pitch in Buffalo on the off chance they get a shot at some point during the season.

 

You know, like logically, lmao. I have hope for Bowden, he could be solid.

[max silver]

You know, like logically, lmao. I have hope for Bowden, he could be solid.

 

This guy acts like there are quality MLB starters itching for the chance to toil in AAA hoping for a potential callup. All of the starters with a realistic shot to stick in a rotation are already on MLB deals, so all that's left is a bunch of turds that you try to polish in hopes of coming up with something more than just a shiny turd.

 

Francis is the one guy I forgot to mention. He had a fantastic showing in winter ball and looked very good in the spring as well. Once he's fully built back up I think he's depth option number 1 and he might be a decent back end starter guy in the future. I could also see Kloffenstein receiving a shot as well if several starters go down due to injury. I think there's a shot that Tiedemann could have pitched in MLB this season as well had he not gone down to injury.

[Masterbather]

Did you miss that the front office signed Hutchison and Thompson? They had White on hand already who has had some success in MLB, and some other internal options that needed opportunities at AAA to continue to develop. This isn't nearly as bad as you are trying to make it out to be. If you don't have starters in the upper levels of the minors who are ready to contribute right away you sign a bunch of s*** in the offseason and end up hoping that some of them can provide a few innings for you, unfortunately the guys they signed were either awful or opted out due to lack of opportunity.

 

I didn't forget about them, I knew they would be awful. They were.

[Spanky99]

I think they tried to amass some depth, it just unfortunately all ended up being s***. White got hurt and never regained his ability to retire even minor league hitters, Hutchison wasn't lighting the world on fire and then opted out, Zulueta couldn't find the strike zone, Thompson continued being awful even in AAA, Hatch was turned into a reliever, etc. I don't think there is an exact science to accumulating quality depth aside from developing it yourself, and the organization's top starting prospects are still in AA and below.

 

I didn't forget about them, I knew they would be awful. They were.

 

They haven't pitched, s*** happens man. Spects crash... but the situation is grim, I like Francis though.

[Masterbather]

They haven't pitched, s*** happens man. Spects crash... but the situation is grim, I like Francis though.

We need the not-so-fat-anymore Korean to come back strong from injury or we're f***ed...as I watch Manoah falling apart again🤦

[G-Snarls]

Jays are now 4-9 in Manoah starts

 

And opening day they had to score 10 runs to win

[AMS528]

Grim is the right description.

 

And I understand minor league depth for pitching isn't necessarily easy to find. You're not just going to have a good starter sitting around there unless you're the Dodgers the last few years.

 

But I think people talking about that are missing the fact that the large glaring issue is that there wasn't even anyone to throw in for a spot start while Manoah was pitching like the worst pitcher in baseball which has now culminated in this incredibly humiliating last start. If we had a trash can to throw out there, then at least this would have been avoided. He absolutely cannot start again.

 

And really that means that functionally even one other shortish term injury to another starter like Kikuchi or Berrios would probably doom us in this division.

 

And given Kikuchi sucked already last year, that means the margins on this season were completely razor thin. Bowden Francis is our hope now that Mitch White is as expected not an actual option.

Edited June 6, 2023 by AMS528

[Stangstag]

Orelvis for 5th/depth starter trade incoming

[Omar]

Dan Plesac's son!

 

It's worth a shot.

[BCZ]

Entire season getting f***ed because of one guy

[glory]

All these games that Manoah is blowing are going to add up, and the AL has improved since last season. I realize the SP depth is ass cheeks in the minors but at this point I’m not sure how someone like Bowden Francis could be any worse.

[AMS528]

Does Oakland want to trade us JP Sears? They're terrible at picking prospects so it's always worth it.

[Stangstag]

It's worth a shot.

 

Its his nephew but yeah

[jaysblue]

The Blue Jays can't afford to be running out Manoah anymore. He's already cost them so many games. This is Josh Towers 2006 level of embarrassment.

[Daniel Labude]

Orelvis for 5th/depth starter trade incoming

 

[Jays333]

Something has to change. Were fighting with our whole division and a couple wagons over in the AL West for a wildcard and basically punting games into the sun trotting Manoah out there. May as well pitch Pete Walker if were not going to try anything else.

[RobinThicc]

Yeah Manoah is not figuring this out at the major league level. I say IL him. Give him some time to reset, get in better shape and make some adjustments. Then hopefully he's back up in a month or so.

 

Its not about if theres anyone better in the minors to take his spot (the bar is pretty f***ing low though), its about trying to get this guy back to his regular self. Its time to make the move.

[mphenhef]

Grim is the right description.

 

And I understand minor league depth for pitching isn't necessarily easy to find. You're not just going to have a good starter sitting around there unless you're the Dodgers the last few years.

 

But I think people talking about that are missing the fact that the large glaring issue is that there wasn't even anyone to throw in for a spot start while Manoah was pitching like the worst pitcher in baseball which has now culminated in this incredibly humiliating last start. If we had a trash can to throw out there, then at least this would have been avoided. He absolutely cannot start again.

 

And really that means that functionally even one other shortish term injury to another starter like Kikuchi or Berrios would probably doom us in this division.

 

And given Kikuchi sucked already last year, that means the margins on this season were completely razor thin. Bowden Francis is our hope now that Mitch White is as expected not an actual option.

 

It is absolutely inexcusable that a supposed World Series hopeful that was running into a season with huge question marks in Berrios and Kikuchi in the rotation has zero depth available for spot starts. Atkins has wasted away many years of two controllable, young superstars by failing to address the obvious weaknesses of the team (first bullpen and now rotation depth). It's a shame really as now they are entering the more expensive years of Bo and Vlad with 3 starting position players heading for free agency next year and a pretty piss poor farm system.