General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[L54]

Oof I would not like a Tiedemann for Soto swap. Tiedemann is considered by some to be the best pitcher in the minors

[Spanky99]

I'm not expecting Ohtani, but I still kinda think Toronto ends up with Soto and the cost won't be as much as many are expecting. He'll play a year here before signing with the Yankees.

 

Send Manoah, Rojas and Toman there way, it's a salary dump and the get a controllable SP they desperately need, and some spects with value.

[Spanky99]

Oof I would not like a Tiedemann for Soto swap. Tiedemann is considered by some to be the best pitcher in the minors

 

Yeah, f*** that.

[BTS]

Oof I would not like a Tiedemann for Soto swap. Tiedemann is considered by some to be the best pitcher in the minors

 

I just don't value pitching prospects very much. How many high-end pitching prospects have come in and been elite their first year or two recently? Kirby? I guess it's not really fair to exclude Strider even though he was never a high-end prospect.

[Jays24]

Giving up your best prospect(s) for 1 year of Soto without an extension is how you get your ass fired and hated in this town for life.

[Jimcanuck]

I'd be happy with Ohtani and Trout, as some here are anticipating.

[Eat My Shatkins]

I'd be happy with Ohtani and Trout, as some here are anticipating.

 

Haha

[Eat My Shatkins]

Trading Tiedemann is fine, especially if the Jays can land Yamamoto.

 

Yamamoto and Soto would be a pretty solid off season.

 

Throw in a Candelario signing to play 3B and we'd have a pretty effing solid team.

[L54]

I just don't value pitching prospects very much. How many high-end pitching prospects have come in and been elite their first year or two recently? Kirby? I guess it's not really fair to exclude Strider even though he was never a high-end prospect.

 

I’d rather use him + + to land someone more controllable than Soto. Not opposed to dealing Tieds though

[Spanky99]

Trading Tiedemann is fine, especially if the Jays can land Yamamoto.

 

Yamamoto and Soto would be a pretty solid off season.

 

Throw in a Candelario signing to play 3B and we'd have a pretty effing solid team.

 

Well, that's a whole different story, lol.

[BTS]

I’d rather use him + + to land someone more controllable than Soto. Not opposed to dealing Tieds though

 

Yeah, I get it. Maybe they can get Robert. Or can actually extend someone like Bregman if they trade for him. But if neither of those are options and Soto is, I don't think you pass to hang on to Tiedemann. I'd probably feel different if I thought the team was primed for a 5-year WS contention window, but IMO they have a chance to be that good in 2024 and I'm not sure they're set up for that to continue very long after.

[glory]

I think Tiedemann for Soto is fine. The team has a real window to win, and it might not be open for much longer. A bat like Soto is their biggest need. Get a 5-win season, then recoup a comp pick.

 

Atkins mentioned keeping an eye on long term, so Tiedemann for Soto would conflict with that thinking, but I'm not sure they could get Soto and beat whatever the Yankees are offering without Tiedemann involved. If the Jays are legitimately in on Ohtani, which will be at least a $500m commitment, then I don't see why they couldn't reallocate that to Soto if they were to trade for him. Although with Boras involved, Soto is almost certainly testing free agency first, which would complicate things.

[Spanky99]

I'd be happy with Ohtani and Trout, as some here are anticipating.

 

Might as well add Soto and Kim after those guys, f*** it.

[Spanky99]

Jays should check in on Drury with the Angels, he's solid? Hmm... git r done!

 

Would Van Eyk and Espy do it?

Edited November 30, 2023 by Spanky99

[max silver]

Yeah, I get it. Maybe they can get Robert. Or can actually extend someone like Bregman if they trade for him. But if neither of those are options and Soto is, I don't think you pass to hang on to Tiedemann. I'd probably feel different if I thought the team was primed for a 5-year WS contention window, but IMO they have a chance to be that good in 2024 and I'm not sure they're set up for that to continue very long after.

 

I think Tiedemann is the club's most important prospect if there is to be any chance whatsoever of sustained contention. I wouldn't personally rule him to be untouchable by any means but if he's the necessary component for a 1 year rental the team needs to simply walk away.

[Carlos Danger]

Vlad for Soto or Vlad for Alonso, but trade Vlad please.

[xposbrad]

I rather trade Vlad than Tiedemann. I think Tiedemann first year gives us more WAR that Vlad. I know Vlad/Manoah+ won't get it done for Soto though.

[Carlos Danger]

I rather trade Vlad than Tiedemann. I think Tiedemann first year gives us more WAR that Vlad. I know Vlad/Manoah+ won't get it done for Soto though.

 

Cash-- The Padres are trying to reduce payroll.

[Spanky99]

Cash-- The Padres are trying to reduce payroll.

 

Yeah, those suggestions make no sense.

[Spanky99]

I think Tiedemann is the club's most important prospect if there is to be any chance whatsoever of sustained contention. I wouldn't personally rule him to be untouchable by any means but if he's the necessary component for a 1 year rental the team needs to simply walk away.

 

Agreed, who wants to trade that...

 

Headshot of Ricky Tiedemann

1. Ricky Tiedemann

LHP

 

Ht: 6'4" | Wt: 220 | B-T: L-L

 

Age: null

 

BA Grade/Risk:65/Very High.

 

Track Record: Teams likely regret passing on Tiedemann out of Lakewood (Calif.) High in the five-round 2020 draft. In pro ball, the lefthander has quickly developed one of the highest ceilings among pitching prospects. Tiedemann showed progress at Golden West (Calif.) JC in 2021, prompting the Blue Jays to draft him in the third round and sign him for a below-slot $644,800. He debuted with Low-A Dunedin in 2022, showing a jump in velocity and stuff across his arsenal. On the back of his elite stuff and strong performance, he climbed to Double-A that August. Tiedemann entered 2023 spring training with an opportunity to pitch his way to Toronto. He instead was shut down with left shoulder soreness and got a late start to his season. After four dominant but truncated Double-A starts, Tiedemann returned to the injured list with a left biceps sprain on May 5. He did not return to Double-A New Hampshire until Aug. 11. He made seven appearances there and one for Triple-A Buffalo before finishing with four starts in the Arizona Fall League, where he was league pitcher of the year. More critically, Tiedemann exceeded 70 pitches and five innings three times in the AFL, something he had not done since July 1, 2022.

 

Scouting Report: Tiedemann is a tall, strong-bodied lefthander with the build prototypical of workhorse starters. Despite his physical appearance, his health and durability have been major question marks. When healthy, Tiedemann has an outlier combination of velocity, movement and deception, delivering the ball from a low three-quarters slot. His fastball sits 94-97 mph and touches 98 mph. He generates below-average ride but heavy armside run that plays up due to his low slot and ability to hide the ball. While Tiedemann’s best pitch historically has been his changeup, that pitch backed up in 2023 as concerns about the difference in release height and arm slot compared with his fastball became a larger issue. His changeup features heavy tumble and fade as he kills lift and generates a heavy dose of armside run. His slider became his primary secondary in 2023. It’s a low-80s pitch with sweep and ride. Tiedemann shows an uncanny ability to manipulate his slider and land it in the zone. The pitch generated whiffs at a rate of 39% in-zone in 2023 as well as a 49% rate of called-plus-swinging strikes. As the Blue Jays continue to refine Tiedemann’s arsenal it should continue to improve, giving him three plus or better pitches, including one secondary pitch to neutralize hitters of either handedness. Tiedemann’s command can come and go, but it’s reasonable to think a large chunk of the season was impacted by injury.

 

The Future: No one questions that Tiedemann has the tools and attributes to develop into a No. 2 or 3 starter. It’s only a matter of whether his body will cooperate. A strong season at Triple-A in 2024 will land him in Toronto.

 

Scouting Grades: Fastball: 65 | Slider: 60 | Changeup: 60 | Control: 55.

[L54]

Jays should check in on Drury with the Angels, he's solid? Hmm... git r done!

 

Would Van Eyk and Espy do it?

 

I would be down with a Drury reunion

[Spanky99]

I would be down with a Drury reunion

 

They aren't going to contend, poor Trout, they should retool at least.

[L54]

They aren't going to contend, poor Trout, they should retool at least.

 

He’d be a perfect piece if he can play third. Cheap and one year of control

[Brownie19]

I would be down with a Drury reunion

 

yeah - I really like that suggestion.

[Spanky99]

He’d be a perfect piece if he can play third. Cheap and one year of control

 

f***, indeed. 3rd is his position, dude.

 

yeah - I really like that suggestion.

 

 

And no like,

[Frenchsoup]

2 years of Bo for 1 year of Adames and 5 years of Sal Frelick, who says no?

[Terminator]

Ohtani decision could come at the end of the winter meetings next week.

 

His camp has been so tight-lipped about his desires and has demanded the same silence from suitors. Thus, it is only on the untrustworthy MLB scuttlebutt highway that you hear the same teams mentioned most prominently with Ohtani, notably the Angels, Dodgers, Giants, Rangers, Cubs and Red Sox. You hear the Blue Jays more than the Mets — or the Yankees. But the secret is being tightly guarded with the expectation the winning franchise will get the metaphorical rose handed to it before the end of next week’s winter meetings.

 

https://nypost.com/2023/11/29/sports/steve-cohens-cash-opens-up-both-baseball-worlds-for-david-stearns/

[L54]

f***, indeed. 3rd is his position, dude.

 

Well he didn’t play there once in 2023 so I wouldn’t say that’s his position

[L54]

Ohtani decision could come at the end of the winter meetings next week.

 

 

 

https://nypost.com/2023/11/29/sports/steve-cohens-cash-opens-up-both-baseball-worlds-for-david-stearns/

 

Perfect. Need this massive domino to drop to kickstart the offseason

[Spanky99]

Well he didn’t play there once in 2023 so I wouldn’t say that’s his position

 

Well, it's his natural position.