General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[Spanky99]

Yes, since April 17th, Espi has a wRC+ of 100 and Biggio's is 97. They've been worth 0.4 and 0.3 WAR respectfully. Over the same period, Vlad has been worth 0.1 WAR.

 

Move the date to 1 week later and Espi is at a wRC+ of 93, while Cavan is at 108

 

Jump forward another week (May 1st) and Espi is at a wRC+ of 87, while Cavan is at 111

 

lol

[hanton]

has there ever been a worse play-by-play person in the Toronto market? Devlin is f***ing awful, unbearable

[Stangstag]

has there ever been a worse play-by-play person in the Toronto market? Devlin is f***ing awful, unbearable

 

I’ve always thought this too. Glad others agree. I’d probably have the Tv permanently muted if I was a Raps fan

[Terminator]

Yes, since April 17th, Espi has a wRC+ of 100 and Biggio's is 97. They've been worth 0.4 and 0.3 WAR respectfully. Over the same period, Vlad has been worth 0.1 WAR.

 

Move the date to 1 week later and Espi is at a wRC+ of 93, while Cavan is at 108

 

Jump forward another week (May 1st) and Espi is at a wRC+ of 87, while Cavan is at 111

 

Biggio Fanboys are the master' of arbitrary start dates. So it's always going to be difficult to fight fire with fire.

 

However, what if we make that start date earlier instead of later? That way we can get a larger sample size. Let's say the beginning of the 2021 season? Since then Espinal has been worth 4.1 WAR and Biggio has been worth 1.4.

 

Just saying.

[Brownie19]

Biggio Fanboys are the master' of arbitrary start dates. So it's always going to be difficult to fight fire with fire.

 

However, what if we make that start date earlier instead of later? That way we can get a larger sample size. Let's say the beginning of the 2021 season? Since then Espinal has been worth 4.1 WAR and Biggio has been worth 1.4.

 

Just saying.

 

That's fair. I guess it depends on what your argument is. If you're trying to counter all those who think Espi should be cut, then that's a great argument. I don't personally think the Jays should move on from Espi. I think he's a solid bench piece. I think the same of Biggio.

[John_Havok]

Biggio Fanboys are the master' of arbitrary start dates. So it's always going to be difficult to fight fire with fire.

 

However, what if we make that start date earlier instead of later? That way we can get a larger sample size. Let's say the beginning of the 2021 season? Since then Espinal has been worth 4.1 WAR and Biggio has been worth 1.4.

 

Just saying.

 

And dont forget one was an incredibly legitimate all star who 100% deserved to be there.

[RustyTrombone]

So I guess Ryu is back to 2021 form??? I mean hes faced alot of bad teams but still...his command looks outstanding and the stuff seems to be just good enough.

[hanton]

So I guess Ryu is back to 2021 form??? I mean hes faced alot of bad teams but still...his command looks outstanding and the stuff seems to be just good enough.

 

who would have thought, he looks really good - losing the weight I'm sure has helped

[max silver]

Biggio Fanboys are the master' of arbitrary start dates. So it's always going to be difficult to fight fire with fire.

 

However, what if we make that start date earlier instead of later? That way we can get a larger sample size. Let's say the beginning of the 2021 season? Since then Espinal has been worth 4.1 WAR and Biggio has been worth 1.4.

 

Just saying.

 

How about we go back to June of last season at which point Espinal stopped hitting and a trend that has continued right through this season as well.

 

Since June 16 of last year Espinal has produced a 75 WRC+ and been worth a total of 0.2 WAR. You should really stop trying to defend the guy so much, he's legitimately been an awful baseball player for nearly 1.5 seasons now. Thankfully he's been contributing a bit of offense lately at a time where the Jays need all of the help they can get given the amount of regulars out of the lineup.

[Terminator]

How about we go back to June of last season at which point Espinal stopped hitting and a trend that has continued right through this season as well.

 

Since June 16 of last year Espinal has produced a 75 WRC+ and been worth a total of 0.2 WAR. You should really stop trying to defend the guy so much, he's legitimately been an awful baseball player for nearly 1.5 seasons now. Thankfully he's been contributing a bit of offense lately at a time where the Jays need all of the help they can get given the amount of regulars out of the lineup.

 

How about we go back to April of the 2021 season at which point Biggio stopped hitting and a trend that has continued right through this season as well.

 

Since April of 2021 Biggio has produced a 91 WRC+ and been worth a total of 1.4 WAR. You should really stop trying to defend the guy so much, he's legitimately been an awful baseball player for nearly 3 seasons now. Thankfully he's been contributing a bit of offense lately at a time where the Jays need all of the help they can get given the amount of regulars out of the lineup.

[Spanky99]

I’ve always thought this too. Glad others agree. I’d probably have the Tv permanently muted if I was a Raps fan

 

Nah, he's great for the NBA. Baseball isn't his thing, it's so forced, and he never shuts the f*** up, like in all the NBA stoppages. just not his gig.

[Stangstag]

Nah, he's great for the NBA. Baseball isn't his thing, it's so forced, and he never shuts the f*** up, like in all the NBA stoppages. just not his gig.

 

He always sounds forced. Its his terrible fake grovelly voice that annoys the f*** out of me

[Spanky99]

That's fair. I guess it depends on what your argument is. If you're trying to counter all those who think Espi should be cut, then that's a great argument. I don't personally think the Jays should move on from Espi. I think he's a solid bench piece. I think the same of Biggio.

 

Bingo, get it through your head Sheriff.

[max silver]

How about we go back to April of the 2021 season at which point Biggio stopped hitting and a trend that has continued right through this season as well.

 

Since April of 2021 Biggio has produced a 91 WRC+ and been worth a total of 1.4 WAR. You should really stop trying to defend the guy so much, he's legitimately been an awful baseball player for nearly 3 seasons now. Thankfully he's been contributing a bit of offense lately at a time where the Jays need all of the help they can get given the amount of regulars out of the lineup.

 

Biggio has been a solid offensive contributor for the last 3+ months vs Espinal who has been so bad he was a candidate to find himself optioned to the minors. This shouldn't be so hard for you to understand. Since he got his bat going Biggio has been the team's 10th highest WAR contributor as a bench player and has provided a 128 WRC+ against RHP off the bench. As a part time player there is nothing at all wrong with these types of contributions. I realize it's part of your troll persona to rag on Cavan Biggio 100% of the time no matter how he's actually performing at the time but it really shouldn't be that hard for you to give the guy a little credit when he's going well at the plate, much as been the case for the majority of this season.

[jaysblue]

This seems to be the disconnect and source of our discussions. I lean against judging a FO strictly by the results. They make decisions based off projected performances and each comes with a probability of different results (let's call them way beyond expectations, at expectations and way below expectations for simplification). There are SO many variables that can affect the results - most of which are outside of the FO's control.

 

I'm not going to s*** on the FO for the underperformances by Vlad, Manoah, Kirk, Varsho, Chapman, Espi, Cimber, etc., just as I'm not going to praise them for the unlikely emergence of Davis Schneider, Genesis, Clement, etc. There's a ton of luck and variables involved in all of those results. I think it's unreasonable to blame the FO for the failures of so many key/core players and the resulting win-loss record. Blame the players themselves.

 

That said, I will praise them for adding and maintaining depth at the upper minors and on the ML roster this year. They've added several bodies and put themselves in a position to strike gold with certain guys at the most opportune time, which has kept us in the playoff race, despite so many of our core guys s***ing the bed. Will it continue? Maybe, maybe not.

 

I think far too many people like to blame 1 entity directly, when the reality is there's all kinds of variables at play (including luck) and the blame should be shared by several. I do get my back up when people start blaming 1 entity (FO, manager, hitting coach, etc.) with firm opinions that they are obviously to blame - because I think that's really stupid. That said, I also understand it's human nature to want to narrow it down and blame 1 person for the results of an entire team (I just wish it wasn't).

 

Yeah I agree with your points. I don't place entire blame on Atkins and the front office for everything that happens on the field. Majority of the blame should be placed on the players such as Vlad, Manoah, Kirk, Varsho, Springer, Chapman, Espy, Cimber, Bass etc. for heavily underperforming. I've stated that numerous times. Still that's a lot of players underperforming all at the same time, so I do believe that the front office should own some of it. They're the ones putting this roster together at the end of the day, so you have to then question those projected performances when most don't play to those expectations. I'm sure Atkins would be the first person to say that as well. But yes, I do acknowledge everything shouldn't be blamed on Atkins. He's built competitive teams every season which is excellent and kudos to him. Hope we can see this team take it to the next level in the Postseason this year or in 2024.

 

As for the coaching staff, same thing. Don't place 100% of the blame on them, but when a most of the Jays bats aren't hitting for the power they're capable of and hitting a ton of ground balls, you have to start questioning the approach being taken and why haven't certain adjustments been made. That's on some of the coaching staff, but at the end of the day solely on the players.

 

It's great to finally see some guys in the upper minors getting called up and actually contributing. I know it sucks because it's at the expense of Bo and Chapman being injured. If the Jays make the Postseason, guys like Schneider, Clement, Genesis, Horwitz etc. definitely played huge roles in helping the team get there. Small sample sizes but still can't complain on the job they're all doing thus far. Will praise Atkins on that, even if a bit of luck is involved. Kind of wish guys like Schneider/Clement were called up a bit earlier to replace Biggio/Espinal but oh well.

 

Like you said, there's all kinds of variables at play. Can't just place blame on one entity entirely. You're always going to have trolls post in the GDT's or call in on radio shows where they call for Atkins or Schneider being fired for losing one game. I'm sure it happens in every city haha. Unfortunately if the Jays don't win a World Series in the next three seasons, Atkins and company, along with the coaching staff are likely gone. That's how it goes, even if it's not entirely their faults. Let's just hope this team gets into the postseason and with this pitching staff, gotta like their chances to go on a run. Hopefully one or two big bats could come alive, which would be a huge plus.

[Nursehoneybadger]

Back in wild card 3

[Spanky99]

Give him a QO?

 

Is that really a question at this point? lol

[Spanky99]

So I guess Ryu is back to 2021 form??? I mean hes faced alot of bad teams but still...his command looks outstanding and the stuff seems to be just good enough.

 

Found money this Bird, love it.

[Spanky99]

Holy text Silvio, lol. U guys should be pen pals.

 

Also, I think the entire FO and staff need a shakeup if they don't play any meaningful ball this offseason.

[Spanky99]

So Bichette and Belt should be ready to go this Friday per reports, much needed.

[Masterbather]

So Bichette and Belt should be ready to go this Friday per reports, much needed.

 

I'm more concerned about Belt. Stomach viruses can be a bitch and oftentimes you lose a little bit of weight and aren't quite the same for a little while after.

[Spanky99]

I'm more concerned about Belt. Stomach viruses can be a bitch and oftentimes you lose a little bit of weight and aren't quite the same for a little while after.

 

He's an alpha, these thoughts bounce off his chest.

[Stangstag]

So Bichette and Belt should be ready to go this Friday per reports, much needed.

 

That would be f***ing stellar. Need them both for the Texas series especially

[G-Snarls]

So Bichette and Belt should be ready to go this Friday per reports, much needed.

 

Heck yeah

[jaysblue]

Is that really a question at this point? lol

 

Chapman or Ryu?

[Terminator]

So Bichette and Belt should be ready to go this Friday per reports, much needed.

 

The schedule was easy but 6-3 in our last 3 series without Bo and Chapman was pretty solid.

 

We are nearly 100 percent healthy so hopefully we can take it to the Royals-Rangers-Red Sox on this 10 game homestand.

[L54]

The schedule was easy but 6-3 in our last 3 series without Bo and Chapman was pretty solid.

 

We are nearly 100 percent healthy so hopefully we can take it to the Royals-Rangers-Red Sox on this 10 game homestand.

 

With everything that’s gone tits up this season I’m glad they’re still in control of their fate. Makes for meaningful baseball which is more than most teams can say

[Masterbather]

With everything that’s gone tits up this season I’m glad they’re still in control of their fate. Makes for meaningful baseball which is more than most teams can say

 

Actually 16 of 30 teams are either in a playoff spot currently or within a couple of games of playoff spot so literally most teams can say they are playing meaningful baseball.

 

Also, 6-3 given the quality of competition that we faced f***ing sucks.

[Laika]

Just need to sweep ONE good team to make up for blowing a game or two against bad teams. Easy.

[max silver]

Actually 16 of 30 teams are either in a playoff spot currently or within a couple of games of playoff spot so literally most teams can say they are playing meaningful baseball.

 

Also, 6-3 given the quality of competition that we faced f***ing sucks.

 

The team is missing Belt, Bo, Chapman and Jansen right now and is 50% made up of AAA players. 6-3 isn't at all bad given how many key regulars are out of commission at the moment.