Teo Traded to Seattle

[Jonn]

Reminds me a bit of Liam Hendriks in 2015, who Gibby for some reason did not use much in high leverage spots despite great numbers. I don't even recall him pitching in the playoffs that year except for the game Dickey f***ed up in the ALCS, but maybe I'm missing some. Hopefully the M's are misjudging Swanson the same way the Jays did Hendriks.

 

I think that was Atkins first move as Jays GM. He traded several years of control in Hendriks for one year of control in Jesse Chavez. Pretty terrible trade. Both in hindsight and at the time.

[AdamGreenwood]

They probably tried for the last 3 weeks to trade Jansen for that RP they needed and finally just couldn’t deal with all the phone hang ups. I get it in that case

 

This is the worst thing you have ever said.

Jansen is going to be our MVP this year, and it's not going to be close. (unless he gets traded or hurt).

Edited November 16, 2022 by AdamGreenwood

[Krylian]

Correct me if I'm wrong but Swanson is not one of the elite velocity guys we've been clamoring for is he?

[Laika]

What’s wrong with the logic there. Maybe if SEA sees him as a potential dominant closer, they don’t move him

 

Did I say there was anything wrong with it?

[Laika]

Correct me if I'm wrong but Swanson is not one of the elite velocity guys we've been clamoring for is he?

 

no he sits like 94

[Krylian]

no he sits like 94

 

So he'll fit right in then.

[MikeM3]

 

Ross Atkins somehow got the Mariners to accept this trade lmao

 

Macko throws 92 mph. He's worth $0M.

[Krylian]

Macko throws 92 mph. He's worth $0M.

 

Averaged 93.5 and topped out at 97.

[connorp]

Did I say there was anything wrong with it?

 

I cant keep up sometimes. Going back 15 years when I first came here, one of my first arguments with the board was that guys pitching in the 9th inning faced a tougher run environment and I was flamed hard for it. The thinking then was you could take a guy pitching the 6th and 7th and expect similar results. No straw man

[Grant77]

If you consider that:

 

A) We needed to sign a reliever

Swanson is every bit as good as a guy like Rafael Montero, who got 3/35

C) Teoscar was going to make 14-15 million

 

Then this trade opens up a lot of intriguing possibilities payroll wise. By filling the bullpen needs for free, they essentially opened up ~25 million to find a CF and SP.

[connorp]

If you consider that:

 

A) We needed to sign a reliever

Swanson is every bit as good as a guy like Rafael Montero, who got 3/35

C) Teoscar was going to make 14-15 million

 

Then this trade opens up a lot of intriguing possibilities payroll wise. By filling the bullpen needs for free, they essentially opened up ~25 million to find a CF and SP.

 

Or the bottom line just got healthier. Have to wait for the chips to fall

[Grant77]

Or the bottom line just got healthier. Have to wait for the chips to fall

 

I'll gladly trash the FO if they don't reinvest the cash, but Infirmly believe that there will be some big spending this offseason.

[Dagagad]

If you consider that:

 

A) We needed to sign a reliever

Swanson is every bit as good as a guy like Rafael Montero, who got 3/35

C) Teoscar was going to make 14-15 million

 

Then this trade opens up a lot of intriguing possibilities payroll wise. By filling the bullpen needs for free, they essentially opened up ~25 million to find a CF and SP.

 

If they can turn Jansen into another need, they could really go big at one of those spots.

[G-Snarls]

I'll gladly trash the FO if they don't reinvest the cash, but Infirmly believe that there will be some big spending this offseason.

 

Well they literally have to sign or trade for an everyday outfielder now

 

And they know they need another starter

[Olerud363]

I cant keep up sometimes. Going back 15 years when I first came here, one of my first arguments with the board was that guys pitching in the 9th inning faced a tougher run environment and I was flamed hard for it. The thinking then was you could take a guy pitching the 6th and 7th and expect similar results. No straw man

 

Well there really isn't any reason the 6th inning is easier then the 9th inning. The pattern can be explained by just reliever randomness.

 

However good numbers in low leverage could still be a warning sign, not because the 6th inning is easier but maybe management knows the guy doesn't have the greatest stuff, management knows the numbers are fluky and doesn't move them up to high leverage.

[Stangstag]

I'll gladly trash the FO if they don't reinvest the cash, but Infirmly believe that there will be some big spending this offseason.

 

Agreed. If they don’t get a replacement OF, then this trade stinks.

 

Starting OF rn is Springer-Gurriel-Biggio/Merrifield. Not very sexy

[Dagagad]

Who needs a catcher that has CF depth?

 

Also, can we swing a trade with houston. Apparently their owner negotiated the montero deal himself. Lets get talking to him.

[BCZ]

As others said... the only way I don't hate this trade is if they replace Teo's bat with an equally good or better one... then it's fine.

[Brownie19]

Who needs a catcher that has CF depth?

 

Also, can we swing a trade with houston. Apparently their owner negotiated the montero deal himself. Lets get talking to him.

 

Arizona.

[Terminator]

I don't think Arizona really needs a Catcher that badly. Sure, any of ours would be an upgrade for them but between Varsho and Kelly (who projects for 2 WAR in just 90 games next year) they seem to have the position covered well enough that they might be looking for something else if they trade an OFer.

[InsideThePark]

This is a good deal. We're likely getting a CF via our catchers trade(or signing Nimmo) so I'm not even slightly concerned about needing to fill the Teo hole. It will happen. The status quo wasn't going to cut it defensively in the outfield. Keeping Teo(14 million) and signing a free agent equivalent to Swanson(probably 8+ million) would have been 20 million dollars more expensive. That's almost enough to sign Rodon. A catchers goes out to bring in A CF(Nootbar, Varsho, Thomas, Carlson, Reynolds, Carroll, etc) who's fairly cheap and you've essentially got Rodon, Swanson, and a starting CF for the same price and Teo, some FA pen arm and Moreno rotting on the bench or in AAA(or traded for lets say Pablo Lopez). Defense gets better, pen gets better, and money is opened up for an upgrade where we need it. I liked Teo but he didn't have the value that some people thought. Yes he can mash baseballs but he's getting older, has 1 expensive year left and is bad defensively. We got back more than he's worth IMO.

 

Varsho, Rodon, Swanson > Teo, Lopez, Chris Martin

[G-Snarls]

[Krylian]

Arizona.

 

White Sox

[Bil522]

FYI:

 

Hernandez suffered an oblique injury in April and also caught Covid. In the month of May he played 19 games and posted a .428 OPS.

 

From June 1 forward, Hernandez slashed .285/.331/.536/.867, he was 5th in ISO (total raw power) among OF's in baseball, and 11th in overall WAR generated among OF's.

 

Since 2020... he's posted around an .860 overall OPS. He's a signficant upgrade over Haniger.

 

Swanson was a low to mid-leverage reliever who the Mariners didn’t trust in big spots in the playoffs. He often pitched when the M’s had a larger lead or needed a slight inning’s eater. According to Fangraphs, he threw 32 low-leverage innings, 19 mid-leverage, 8.2 high-leverage. He was a significantly worse pitcher in those high-leverage situations, allowing a .747 OPS vs a .513 OPS in low and mid leverage situations. He appeared to thrive in situations that just didn’t matter as much which tells me that the stats he threw up last year might be a little bit overvalued.

 

Macko might be decently regarded… but the stats haven’t caught up yet. He has a 4.55 ERA in his last 85 innings pitched around A, A+ and the AZ Fall League. His major flaws thus far have been injury concerns and a really high walk rate, as evident of a 1.411 WHIP in the minors. He’s a high upside but also high flop type prospect.

[Bil522]

There is the answer to the question, how much did Swanson pitch in the playoffs?

[Krylian]

FYI:

 

Hernandez suffered an oblique injury in April and also caught Covid. In the month of May he played 19 games and posted a .428 OPS.

 

From June 1 forward, Hernandez slashed .285/.331/.536/.867, he was 5th in ISO (total raw power) among OF's in baseball, and 11th in overall WAR generated among OF's.

 

Since 2020... he's posted around an .860 overall OPS. He's a signficant upgrade over Haniger.

 

Swanson was a low to mid-leverage reliever who the Mariners didn’t trust in big spots in the playoffs. He often pitched when the M’s had a larger lead or needed a slight inning’s eater. According to Fangraphs, he threw 32 low-leverage innings, 19 mid-leverage, 8.2 high-leverage. He was a significantly worse pitcher in those high-leverage situations, allowing a .747 OPS vs a .513 OPS in low and mid leverage situations. He appeared to thrive in situations that just didn’t matter as much which tells me that the stats he threw up last year might be a little bit overvalued.

 

Macko might be decently regarded… but the stats haven’t caught up yet. He has a 4.55 ERA in his last 85 innings pitched around A, A+ and the AZ Fall League. His major flaws thus far have been injury concerns and a really high walk rate, as evident of a 1.411 WHIP in the minors. He’s a high upside but also high flop type prospect.

 

Ya. I like the deal too.

[wilko]

Who needs a catcher that has CF depth?

 

Also, can we swing a trade with houston. Apparently their owner negotiated the montero deal himself. Lets get talking to him.

 

[connorp]

Well there really isn't any reason the 6th inning is easier then the 9th inning. The pattern can be explained by just reliever randomness.

 

However good numbers in low leverage could still be a warning sign, not because the 6th inning is easier but maybe management knows the guy doesn't have the greatest stuff, management knows the numbers are fluky and doesn't move them up to high leverage.

 

Doesn’t stand up to logic. It’s not about guys “trying harder” with the game on the line. It’s about pinch hitters, pinch runner, greater need for swing and miss to negate teams trying to manufacture runs

[Bil522]

Swanson came up with a splitter this year that he never had before. Prior to developing that pitch he was starter/ reliever that spent a lot of time in AAA after coming over in a trade with the Yankees

[Terminator]

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/blue-jays-send-teoscar-hernandez-to-seattle-in-three-player-trade/

 

Fangraphs is a big believer in Swanson and grades Macko as a 45+.