2022/2023 offseason thread

[bluejaysinternNo5]

Honestly I think Bichette's gaffe Saturday and his poor defence at shortstop have made him underrated. Yes, he struggled most of the year. But he worked through it and figured it out. He led the AL in hits for two years in a row. He was our most valuable player by fWAR this year. With a move to second base and a whole off season to reflect on this year's post season failure and I think he will continue to be valuable for us. But I'll admit I have soured on Vlad.

[glory]

It's also time to make a decision on our catching situation. We've got about 2 years left of this core team being intact (perhaps longer with some extensions) and Jansen (2 years of control left), Kirk (4 years) and Moreno (6 years) are all deserving of being on the big league team. One of them needs to be traded and it's a waste of resources otherwise.

 

Yeah I think how they handle the catching situation is going to be one of the more important decisions they make. Keeping all 3 is certainly possible, but it will involve using the DH spot more for Kirk than how they used it this season (giving starters a rest so an inferior bench option, usually Tapia, can play). They'd likely also have to use Moreno in more of a super utility role, which might be a good thing if his offense is as good as hyped.

 

Realistically, it's the biggest position of strength in the organization and there is a surplus, so if you want to fix a glaring org weakness (ex. CF) then that's the position to subtract from. I like the idea of turning a catcher into someone like Alek Thomas, but not sure what the cost is going to be. The D-Backs would probably do Thomas for Kirk, but would they do it for Jansen+? I'm guessing no but depends on how they view things.

 

If they do trade a catcher and decide they want to trade Jansen, then they need to do it this winter. He has two years of control left. This is the only time to maximize his value. If he's still a Jay on opening day 2023 then they might as well try to extend him. Kirk and Moreno are more controllable so no urgency there, unless you think Kirk has peaked and want to sell high, but Atkins usually doesn't operate like that on the big league level.

[keggy]

We should NOT be trading pre-arb assets like Kirk. We are at a point in our payroll that we should use that financial surplus to fill in major holes that are going to be expensive (SP, OF).

 

We shouldn't even be trading Gurriel who is making peanuts if it's just going to open up a hole that needs to be filled with money.

[Terminator]

I hate the idea of playing Moreno elsewhere. His offense isn't elite, he's more of a well rounded package that projects to play good defense at C and that's what makes him good. Playing him anywhere other than C is a waste of his talent unless he can also play SS, 3B or CF at an above average level but even then I'm not sure that the juice is worth the squeeze? Catcher is as high on the defensive spectrum as any of those positions.

[connorp]

We should NOT be trading pre-arb assets like Kirk. We are at a point in our payroll that we should use that financial surplus to fill in major holes that are going to be expensive (SP, OF).

 

We shouldn't even be trading Gurriel who is making peanuts if it's just going to open up a hole that needs to be filled with money.

 

There’s a lot of uncertainly a couple years away with a lot of the core. Jays just swung and missed with Berrios. Seattle did well landing Castillo and locking him up, as they probably wouldn’t have gotten him on the open market.

 

Imagine if Seattle actually moved Kelenic at his peak to boot

 

Planning on landing a big FA really isn’t a good place to be. As a fan we’ll watch all the big names drop off the board, as they often should when they get the ridiculous contract they get.

[Grant77]

More than anything, this team needs an attitude change.

 

The talent to win a World Series is all there, but players crumbled and made stupid mistakes when faced with the pressure of the postseason. I think one or both of Gurriel or Hernandez need to go in favour of a more serious and experienced player like Joc Pederson.

 

I think the rotation is fine if we keep Stripling or make a similar addition. I believe that Kikuchi can be fixed with an offseason in the pitching lab and that White will be valuable next year. Rotation depth didn't cost us anything this year. Manoah and Gausman failed us in the playoffs, but we have them for the long haul for better or for worse. Adding another pitcher better than those two isn't realistic and there are better places to pur our resources than into the back of the rotation.

[keggy]

There’s a lot of uncertainly a couple years away with a lot of the core. Jays just swung and missed with Berrios. Seattle did well landing Castillo and locking him up, as they probably wouldn’t have gotten him on the open market.

 

Imagine if Seattle actually moved Kelenic at his peak to boot

 

Planning on landing a big FA really isn’t a good place to be. As a fan we’ll watch all the big names drop off the board, as they often should when they get the ridiculous contract they get.

 

We have enough holes to fill that we probably don't have the luxury of counting on any big FAs.

 

As of today, most our rotation is assuming huge improvements from Berrios, Kikuchi, and White. Next in line after that crap is Casey Lawrence and Thomas Hatch.

 

Springer can no longer play CF every day. And we desperately need to replace 400 PA of Tapia.

 

Cheap stars like Kirk and Manoah are worth their weight in gold right now.

[RobinThicc]

Joc pederson isnt what id describe as serious lol

[glory]

Michael Brantley is a FA again, though will be coming off shoulder surgery. Seemed he was really close to signing with the Jays based on Hazel jumping the gun a couple of years ago. He's older now, and likely strictly a DH at this point, so that might turn the Jays off, but a LH bat like that would be ideal in this lineup if his bat doesn't slip after surgery.

[Terminator]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/10/mlb-projected-arbitration-salaries-2023.html

 

MLB Trade Rumors has released it's projected arbitration salaries for 2023. Teo and Vlad coming in with some big numbers. If you non-tender Tapia, Zimmer and Thornton we are up to $177.4M on opening day with no moves. Payroll this year was $171M.

[Terminator]

More than anything, this team needs an attitude change.

 

The talent to win a World Series is all there, but players crumbled and made stupid mistakes when faced with the pressure of the postseason. I think one or both of Gurriel or Hernandez need to go in favour of a more serious and experienced player like Joc Pederson.

 

I think the rotation is fine if we keep Stripling or make a similar addition. I believe that Kikuchi can be fixed with an offseason in the pitching lab and that White will be valuable next year. Rotation depth didn't cost us anything this year. Manoah and Gausman failed us in the playoffs, but we have them for the long haul for better or for worse. Adding another pitcher better than those two isn't realistic and there are better places to pur our resources than into the back of the rotation.

 

What exactly makes Joc Pederson a more serious player than Teoscar?

[MON4NHLTOR4MLB]

Well if Rogers wants a 7 game series of playoff revenue, open up the wallet a bit more cause you ain’t getting it with the same team and same pitching

[Jimcanuck]

What exactly makes Joc Pederson a more serious player than Teoscar?

 

Last I heard about Joc he was chirping Trout about a fantasy football league, during a game. Real serious.

[Terminator]

Tbh I like when BTS starts these threads because he lists out the roster, the salaries, and then keeps it updated throughout the offseason.

[Terminator]

One guy they should absolutely be shopping is Craig Biggio's son. The team clearly hates him and we appear to have a younger version of him in Barger who is at AAA anyway.

 

I'm not saying he's worth a lot, but perhaps with the ban on the shift there is a team out there that would give up an interesting hard throwing reliever for him. A s***** team with a hole at 2B or even a contending team who wants a versatile left handed bench bat could be interested.

[JaysAllMighty]

Tbh I like when BTS starts these threads because he lists out the roster, the salaries, and then keeps it updated throughout the offseason.

 

Absolutely:

 

https://www.bluejaysmessageboard.com/threads/9225-Offseason-Roster-Thread-2019-2020?highlight=offseason+thread

[Grant77]

What exactly makes Joc Pederson a more serious player than Teoscar?

 

This is just my opinion, but Pederson always appears locked in on the field and is very competitive. He's focused on defense and he always gives a full effort while running the bases. He's ruffled some feathers by demanding that same effort from his teammates, but I think we need a bit of that.

 

I should make clear that I wasn't referring to his personality off the field. Maybe competitive would have been a better word choice.

[Laika]

Joc Pederson is a super serious platoon DH at this point right

 

passssssssssss

[Grant77]

I'm not making a big argument for Pederson. We just need a lefty outfielder that can bring a bit of fire to the clubhouse. There are several players out there that fit that profile.

[Eat My Shatkins]

I wonder if Espinal could be any good in the OF?

 

Leave Merrifield as the full time 2B next year and occasional 1B when Vlad needs rest.

[Laika]

Yes a lefty CF who can crack skulls would be sick

 

But archetype fixation also kind of led the front office to think Tapia filled a need

 

I dunno. There are lots of ways to improve the offense I just want the org to be aggressive more than anything

[Laika]

I wonder if Espinal could be any good in the OF?

 

Leave Merrifield as the full time 2B next year and occasional 1B when Vlad needs rest.

 

Nah he’s stocky and slow now. I bet he’d suck

[jaysblue]

More than anything, this team needs an attitude change.

 

The talent to win a World Series is all there, but players crumbled and made stupid mistakes when faced with the pressure of the postseason. I think one or both of Gurriel or Hernandez need to go in favour of a more serious and experienced player like Joc Pederson.

 

I think the rotation is fine if we keep Stripling or make a similar addition. I believe that Kikuchi can be fixed with an offseason in the pitching lab and that White will be valuable next year. Rotation depth didn't cost us anything this year. Manoah and Gausman failed us in the playoffs, but we have them for the long haul for better or for worse. Adding another pitcher better than those two isn't realistic and there are better places to pur our resources than into the back of the rotation.

 

Gausman didn't fail the Jays in the playoffs, Schneider did.

[jaysblue]

Joc Pederson is a super serious platoon DH at this point right

 

passssssssssss

 

I like Joc Pederson against RHP, though not as an everyday player. You need a solid platoon partner with him or else he'll be exposed playing everyday. If the Blue Jays could find a Reed Johnson type player, they would make a nice platoon in LF/DH.

[Terminator]

Seemingly everyone wants to move Springer to a corner OF spot but I think he probably needs to stay in CF for a year. There are zero starting CF options in FA this year unless you consider Kiermaier's broken body and if Teoscar walks we can move him over then.

[Olerud363]

I like Joc Pederson against RHP, though not as an everyday player. You need a solid platoon partner with him or else he'll be exposed playing everyday. If the Blue Jays could find a Reed Johnson type player, they would make a nice platoon in LF/DH.

 

Vinnie Capra and Otto Lopez have played a bit of outfield.

[Laika]

I like Joc Pederson against RHP, though not as an everyday player. You need a solid platoon partner with him or else he'll be exposed playing everyday. If the Blue Jays could find a Reed Johnson type player, they would make a nice platoon in LF/DH.

 

Gurriel could be a platoon guy on a high level team to be quite honest

[keggy]

Bichette has an argument for worst defensive SS in baseball. The time to prove he can handle SS has come and gone, especially with the new shift rules.

 

I haven't seen enough of Espinal at SS to know if he is the answer, or if an internal position switch is even palatable to Bichette. He might need to move for someone like Correa to save face.

 

These are questions that only the front office knows, but I really think they need to stop giving back so much value on defence.

[RobinThicc]

Imo,

 

Available for trade:

One of Kirk, Moreno, Jansen

Lourdes Gurriel Jr

Teoscar Hernandez

Im sure a prospect like Orelvis Martinez is available too

 

Needs:

A 3/4 Starter

Strikeouts in the bullpen

CF'er thats good defensively

 

Team is already expensive and im not sure Rogers is going to be in that 200 million range, so I expect they'll make a big trade to address either the outfield or to get a starter, that are still relatively cheap.

[Stangstag]

I wonder if Espinal could be any good in the OF?

 

Leave Merrifield as the full time 2B next year and occasional 1B when Vlad needs rest.

 

Biggio should get more looks in the OF