General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2022)

[Jonn]

A depth move I think since Cole and Verlander won't be able to pitch.

The catcher just has to not call the slider.

 

He’s gonna be amped he will be throwing 101 if he gets into a game.

 

I just think its wild that the Jays have 6 All-Stars and only 2 of them are deserving. This has been weird year.

[Stangstag]

He’s gonna be amped he will be throwing 101 if he gets into a game.

 

I just think its wild that the Jays have 6 All-Stars and only 2 of them are deserving. This has been weird year.

 

Its like the Royals the year after they won the ws

[Daniel Labude]

Anybody have a link to this game, not sure MLB66 does Peacock games?

[Eat My Shatkins]

On may 17th the Angels were 23-13

 

They've since gone 16-30

 

Free Ohtani now you useless pieces of crap

 

Imagine if the Jays were to trade for Soto and Ohtani??

 

I know, I know....it'll never happen.

[Solaxys]

[Solaxys]

Imagine if the Jays were to trade for Soto and Ohtani??

 

 

Davidi says Jays have already reached out to the Nats post the futures game; possibly dangling Tiedemann or Zulu? shrugs.

They have been slated to be aggressive if Soto comes on the market.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/zuluetas-tiedemanns-rise-a-reminder-of-tough-choice-that-awaits-blue-jays/

 

I don't see Soto moving at trade deadline (just way too many pieces to move for him unless you take on Strasburg or Corbin's contract), offseason definitely - especially with the new rumors that Nationals are going to offer one more contract to him.

Edited July 17, 2022 by Solaxys

[Jays24]

Davidi says Jays have already reached out to the Nats post the futures game; possibly dangling Tiedemann or Zulu? shrugs.

They have been slated to be aggressive if Soto comes on the market.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/zuluetas-tiedemanns-rise-a-reminder-of-tough-choice-that-awaits-blue-jays/

 

I don't see Soto moving at trade deadline (just way too many pieces to move for him unless you take on Strasburg or Corbin's contract), offseason definitely - especially with the new rumors that Nationals are going to offer one more contract to him.

 

Im not really a fan of giving up too much for a 2.5 year rental but if we had to do it, Teo and Moreno seem like the obvious pieces to give up without hurting our current on field team. Kirk/Jansen have C in a great spot for us while Soto would take over Teos spot in the outfield.

[BigCecil]

Im not really a fan of giving up too much for a 2.5 year rental but if we had to do it, Teo and Moreno seem like the obvious pieces to give up without hurting our current on field team. Kirk/Jansen have C in a great spot for us while Soto would take over Teos spot in the outfield.

 

A 2.5 year rental? We have Vlad and Bo 1 year more = 3.5 year rentals. And that last extra year will be the most arb expensive if they are producing. Lourdes and Teo have a shorter fuse. I'd move Bo in the right deal. Is he really the SS long term with his pitch selection and Defensive limitations? I question it. Lots can change in that time but both of them will test the market if we don't overpay to extend.

[Stangstag]

Davidi says Jays have already reached out to the Nats post the futures game; possibly dangling Tiedemann or Zulu? shrugs.

They have been slated to be aggressive if Soto comes on the market.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/zuluetas-tiedemanns-rise-a-reminder-of-tough-choice-that-awaits-blue-jays/

 

I don't see Soto moving at trade deadline (just way too many pieces to move for him unless you take on Strasburg or Corbin's contract), offseason definitely - especially with the new rumors that Nationals are going to offer one more contract to him.

 

Don’t do this to me. I will flip my s*** if they Jays somehow get Soto without emptying the entire farm

[Key22]

Bo, Moreno, Martinez and Biggio for Soto or is that too much?

 

Trading Moreno and Martinez are fairly easy to say yes to because prospects are prospects - they can be replaced. I'm okay with Bo being traded and from an optics perspective - The Nationals are getting an all-star shortstop so it's a little easier to sell it to their fans.

 

But is Bo/Espinal a better SS/2B tandem over Espinal/Biggio?

 

Here's the thing - you can trade Bo/Moreno/Martinez for Soto and you might then trade Gurriel Jr to front a package for a superior 2B/SS (preferably a switch hitter lefty bat).

 

I think the Jays have money - the idea is the Jays may have only had the money to sign either Vlad or Bo - one but not both. The question though would be if the Jays really can go big on a contract would you rather go big on Soto/Bo/Vlad? For me, Soto would be THE guy to spend big money on.

[BigCecil]

Trading Moreno and Martinez are fairly easy to say yes to because prospects are prospects - they can be replaced. I'm okay with Bo being traded and from an optics perspective - The Nationals are getting an all-star shortstop so it's a little easier to sell it to their fans.

 

But is Bo/Espinal a better SS/2B tandem over Espinal/Biggio?

 

Here's the thing - you can trade Bo/Moreno/Martinez for Soto and you might then trade Gurriel Jr to front a package for a superior 2B/SS (preferably a switch hitter lefty bat).

 

I think the Jays have money - the idea is the Jays may have only had the money to sign either Vlad or Bo - one but not both. The question though would be if the Jays really can go big on a contract would you rather go big on Soto/Bo/Vlad? For me, Soto would be THE guy to spend big money on.

 

The Jays could for sure sign both, if its what they are worth. The question is would they want to?

 

Bo is 25 has 1500 career PAs and a 118 wRC+. Career 9 WAR over parts of 4 seasons. BBs 5% and K's 22%. Right now he is a league average SS bat. His D numbers are mediocre at best in a premium run prevention position, as best as I can understand them. Baez was older at 28 but signed for 6/140. Bo will want a lot more than that no?

 

Vlad's value long term deal is worth something like $180M now. He will want a lot more than that no?

 

Soto, Vlad and Bo will find a buyer to overpay. They are all going to make a lot of money and I'd be surprised if any of them are on the Jays in 2026. As an aside I don't know how much syrupy talk I heard for a year about "Johnny Gaudreau loves Calgary, and all of his family love Calgary. He came up with them ya da ya da". Dumped Calgary for even less money to play in Ohio. This is a business and they are going to go wherever they want at the time. I'm a Bruins fan, but I can't believe how much some fans place emotional moments they see on the bench and ice in FA discussions. I watched Doc, Delgado, Jose, Bell, Moseby, Barfield alllllll go. Man....did everyone miss what happened with Freeman? AA is a stud for the deal he did on the heels of that with OAK. A+ pivot.

 

So if (huge if) we can put a deal together with Bo/Moreno etc for Soto and move Espy to SS for this year, and make the most of the time/assets we have, I'm all for it. Jays won a WS with Manny Lee at SS in '92. Couldn't hit a beach ball. Plus offence is nice from SS but you can trade off for D value and pay less. Net net that deal costs us 1 less arb year of Bo plus whatever else goes. Its expensive, but kicking the can down the road only delays their likely departure, and gives us mediocrity in the interim.

Edited July 18, 2022 by BigCecil

[Eat My Shatkins]

Bo+ for Soto all day if the Nats will do it

 

You can always take a run at Correa in the off season when he opts out of his deal with the Twins (of course maybe the COVID border BS makes him not an option, Shatkins would know because they probably kicked that tire last off season)

 

Bo, Gurriel, Moreno, pitching prospect for Soto

[Terminator]

A 2.5 year rental?

 

Yeah 2.5 years isn’t a rental, particularly when some of the names going the other way don’t have that much more control.

[THANOS]

Bo+ for Soto all day if the Nats will do it

 

You can always take a run at Correa in the off season when he opts out of his deal with the Twins (of course maybe the COVID border BS makes him not an option, Shatkins would know because they probably kicked that tire last off season)

 

Bo, Gurriel, Moreno, pitching prospect for Soto

 

Spot on, I'd do that.

 

Bo + Gurriel + Moreno + 1 of Zuleta/Frasso

 

That should beat every possible offer out there.

 

This also keeps both Groshans and Martinez with the hope that 1 of them takes over for Chapman in the future.

[Jimcanuck]

Spot on, I'd do that.

 

Bo + Gurriel + Moreno + 1 of Zuleta/Frasso

 

That should beat every possible offer out there.

 

This also keeps both Groshans and Martinez with the hope that 1 of them takes over for Chapman in the future.

 

Hard to know what Nats want in return but given the state of the org it is likely they prefer players with more control / prospects package. They probably value Bo / Gurriel less than the Jays do.

 

I suspect they would want Manoah, Moreno, at least two of Tiedemann/Frasso/Zulueta, and probably a few lower level guys they like.

[BigCecil]

Hard to know what Nats want in return but given the state of the org it is likely they prefer players with more control / prospects package. They probably value Bo / Gurriel less than the Jays do.

 

I suspect they would want Manoah, Moreno, at least two of Tiedemann/Frasso/Zulueta, and probably a few lower level guys they like.

 

You are probably right. Moreno and the others would definitely be on their list. But 1 more year of Bo, than Soto, at a high arb cost to them is probably not that attractive.

[Eat My Shatkins]

The Nats can't have Manoah and they'd be idiots to even ask. We can afford to lose Bo because we'd be adding Soto's bat and Espinal is probably a better SS anyways. We can't afford to give up the pitcher who would be starting in 2 games of a 5 game playoff series with nothing coming to replace him. What the f*** would be the point of that?

[Solaxys]

McGrath put a proposal out for the Athletic that the Jays could do, if traded by the deadline:

 

Jays get Soto and Corbin

Nationals get Moreno, Tiedemann, Pearson, Martinez, Groshans

 

Jays get starter depth this way & some flexibility to flip Teo or Gurriel for bullpen arms.

[max silver]

McGrath put a proposal out for the Athletic that the Jays could do, if traded by the deadline:

 

Jays get Soto and Corbin

Nationals get Moreno, Tiedemann, Pearson, Martinez, Groshans

 

Jays get starter depth this way & some flexibility to flip Teo or Gurriel for bullpen arms.

 

I guess this all depends on whether the front office determines it's time to give a middle finger to sustainable winning and decides to push all the chips in to maximize winning for the next few seasons. This really goes against what they have stated they are trying to accomplish long term but it would certainly be exciting in the short term.

[Dagagad]

Spot on, I'd do that.

 

Bo + Gurriel + Moreno + 1 of Zuleta/Frasso

 

That should beat every possible offer out there.

 

This also keeps both Groshans and Martinez with the hope that 1 of them takes over for Chapman in the future.

 

Not every offer. I think If the Yankees, rays, dodgers unloaded the farm they could get him without touching major leaguers.

 

I think the dodgers have 7 top 100 guys and probably believe that they can get more of them on their own.

[Dagagad]

I guess this all depends on whether the front office determines it's time to give a middle finger to sustainable winning and decides to push all the chips in to maximize winning for the next few seasons. This really goes against what they have stated they are trying to accomplish long term but it would certainly be exciting in the short term.

 

I prefer a Bo, Martinez, Moreno one that doesn’t hit the rest of the farm as much. If the pitchers in high and low A are for real, we can then transition into a different contention window based on homegrown pitching.

[max silver]

I prefer a Bo, Martinez, Moreno one that doesn’t hit the rest of the farm as much. If the pitchers in high and low A are for real, we can then transition into a different contention window based on homegrown pitching.

 

I just find I have a hard time determining what is a reasonable offer in a prospective Soto trade. The guy is a potential hall of famer, but he still has a few questions marks when it comes to overall performance. The bat alone is top 3 in MLB since he debuted, but his defence looks to have taken a large step backwards this season. Maybe this is just a one year blip, but when it comes to handing out a potential $500 million contract to a player this doesn't feel particularly wise if he maxes out as a 6 or 7 win player during his prime.

[Daniel Labude]

I just find I have a hard time determining what is a reasonable offer in a prospective Soto trade. The guy is a potential hall of famer, but he still has a few questions marks when it comes to overall performance. The bat alone is top 3 in MLB since he debuted, but his defence looks to have taken a large step backwards this season. Maybe this is just a one year blip, but when it comes to handing out a potential $500 million contract to a player this doesn't feel particularly wise if he maxes out as a 6 or 7 win player during his prime.

 

I dont think anyone that trades for Soto will do so expecting to get a long term deal done. More of a 2-2.5 year rental of a top hitter

[max silver]

I dont think anyone that trades for Soto will do so expecting to get a long term deal done. More of a 2-2.5 year rental of a top hitter

 

Does that really serve to lower the eventual asking price from the Nationals though? Blowing up a farm system for a few years of a player is just too risky in my opinion, no matter how good the player is. I really wish that the front office could have made a Ramirez trade happen in the offseason as he would likely been a reasonable costing superstar compared to Soto who is asking for the moon. It's obviously with the benefit of hindsight but seeing how Moreno has yet to regain any of the power he displayed in AA, and Martinez has been largely exposed at AA sending both of these guys out in a Ramirez trade as was reportedly the ask for Cleveland may have been totally worth it. Had the team known Kirk was about to explode with the bat it would have been easier to stomach moving out Moreno, but that's another hindsight scenario.

[BigCecil]

The Nats can't have Manoah and they'd be idiots to even ask. We can afford to lose Bo because we'd be adding Soto's bat and Espinal is probably a better SS anyways. We can't afford to give up the pitcher who would be starting in 2 games of a 5 game playoff series with nothing coming to replace him. What the f*** would be the point of that?

 

100%. Addition by irreplaceable subtraction of Manoah can't happen. If you squint hard we can get by ok without Bo using Espy and Biggio, with Soto bat addition. I actually don't know how well espy would do at SS but I can't imagine he would be any lesser than Bo. For all the talk of not draining the system this FO has already traded Gunner and change, with 2 top prospects for Berrios. This deadline will be interesting.

[Jimcanuck]

BA's take:

 

The Blue Jays don’t quite have the pure prospect talent to pull off a trade for Soto, but they can make it work if they’re willing to include one or more of their young big leaguers. C Gabriel Moreno and LHP Ricky Tiedemann are both Top 100 Prospects, with SS Jordan Groshans, SS Orelvis Martinez and RHP Yosver Zulueta not far off. Beyond them, the Blue Jays have a deep well of interesting low-level infielders and intriguing righthanded pitchers in their farm system that could serve as complementary pieces in a deal. In order to match what other teams can offer though, the Blue Jays would likely have to include one of C Alejandro Kirk, RHP Alek Manoah or SS Bo Bichette from their big league team, which they are extremely unlikely to do. From a pure talent standpoint, however, they have the players in-house to make an enticing offer.

 

 

They list the Dodger #1, based on the wealth on talent on the farm. Soto to Dodgers would make that team crazy good.

[Spanky99]

Wow, I missed a lot this weekend. Espy/Romano as injury replacements, the draft, Soto rumours... wild, this trade deadline's going to be nuts.

 

Just found the futures game if anyone wants to see it if they missed it... https://www.mlb.com/video/2022-all-star-futures-game

[Spanky99]

100%. Addition by irreplaceable subtraction of Manoah can't happen. If you squint hard we can get by ok without Bo using Espy and Biggio, with Soto bat addition. I actually don't know how well espy would do at SS but I can't imagine he would be any lesser than Bo. For all the talk of not draining the system this FO has already traded Gunner and change, with 2 top prospects for Berrios. This deadline will be interesting.

 

Agreed fellas, no way we can lose arms of that quality.

[Jonn]

I think they would be willing to move Bo in a Soto trade I can't see him being the sticking point in any trade. They are obviously going to have to trade something significant off the MLB Roster. Bo just makes the most sense from the position he plays. And anyone else of similar value would be deemed untouchable.

[G-Snarls]

If we're theoretically trading for Soto aren't we likely to include an outfielder in the deal? Teoscar and Gurriel would be viable package pieces wouldn't they?

 

Which also raises another question as to how long Soto is a viable OF option before he has to move to 1B/DH