General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2022)

[Spanky99]

Apparently the team is going to the funeral today, for Julia. I openly wonder how this had an affect on the players, it's pretty damn tragic and these guys' are human. 1-9 since this tragedy. Lot's of bad sequence luck on this streak as well(timely hits). I understand what Charlie meant, but as they say there's no crying in baseball.

 

On that note, Charlie was growing on me there for awhile when he was sticking up for his players and getting tossed, we need more of that out of him, and some accountability for bonehead mistakes, players WILL take notice and be better prepared, I legit miss the legend John Gibbons, he wouldn't allow it.

[John_Havok]

Apparently the team is going to the funeral today, for Julia. I openly wonder how this had an affect on the players, it's pretty damn tragic and these guys' are human. 1-9 since this tragedy. Lot's of bad sequence luck on this streak as well(timely hits). I understand what Charlie meant, but as they say there's no crying in baseball.

 

On that note, Charlie was growing on me there for awhile when he was sticking up for his players and getting tossed, we need more of that out of him, and some accountability for bonehead mistakes, players WILL take notice and be better prepared, I legit miss the legend John Gibbons, he wouldn't allow it.

 

At the very least, make a couple hitting order changes. Lets get the top guys at the top of the order consistently at least until some of the other bats come around. It's really frustratind seeing rallies killed in certain spots in the order nearly every time through.

[L54]

Do you guys think Gregg Popovich or Daryl Sutter yell at their players? Or do you think they just pat them on the ass and encourage them to do their best?

 

I’m sorry but it’s extremely soft to argue that yelling at professional athletes doesn’t work.

 

Charlie has no balls. He’s here to massage egos and keep everyone happy. Not his fault they chose a yes man for the job, but it feels like there is no real leadership on this team. Maybe Springer to some extent but he comes across as a secondary leader, not a true captain of the ship. Need a manager who can set the tone.

 

Dave Roberts. Aaron Boone. Gabe Kapler. I bet they don’t sit in front of the media after getting crushed on the road and say “well we played good and did our best”

 

Charlie needs to be axed. Give Schneider the reigns or look externally. Someone who will move Bo to 7th and not be afraid that his dad might call.

[L54]

While everyone is aware that the Darth Vader school of management is now an anachronism there has to be consequences. We’ve witnessed some absurd mental errors on the base pads and in the field this year. I haven’t seen a player sitting the next game after blunders and I have been paying attention. It is apparent Charlie manages players in such a way that they fear no repercussions no matter how big the gaffe. Good managers don’t manage out of fear of their direct reports. It is so obvious that he is afraid of giving Bo a rest day like the rest of the team because Bo would call him out on it. So Bo doesn’t get rest days and everyone else does. The Laissez faire approach to managing a ball club doesn’t work. It never has. He is a terrible skipper.

 

Great post Omar.

[Stangstag]

https://sportsnaut.com/mlb-playoffs-schedule-bracket-dates/amp/

 

Jays win the WS. You saw it here first folks

[L54]

https://sportsnaut.com/mlb-playoffs-schedule-bracket-dates/amp/

 

Jays win the WS. You saw it here first folks

 

World Series MVP: Bo Bichette Jr.

[Brownie19]

Do you guys think Gregg Popovich or Daryl Sutter yell at their players? Or do you think they just pat them on the ass and encourage them to do their best?

I’m sorry but it’s extremely soft to argue that yelling at professional athletes doesn’t work.

 

Charlie has no balls. He’s here to massage egos and keep everyone happy. Not his fault they chose a yes man for the job, but it feels like there is no real leadership on this team. Maybe Springer to some extent but he comes across as a secondary leader, not a true captain of the ship. Need a manager who can set the tone.

 

Dave Roberts. Aaron Boone. Gabe Kapler. I bet they don’t sit in front of the media after getting crushed on the road and say “well we played good and did our best”

 

Charlie needs to be axed. Give Schneider the reigns or look externally. Someone who will move Bo to 7th and not be afraid that his dad might call.

 

Why do you think it's just one extreme or the other? I guess I should caveat my position by saying there are different types of 'yelling'. There's the guy who yells at the entire team and calls people out in front of the entire team. I don't think that's effective. But if you want to call someone into your office to have a very stern conversation about their performance and what you need out of them - that's another story. If you set clear expectations and tell them what will happen if they don't do it - and you follow through with that - I think that's a much more effective approach.

 

I have no idea what Pop and Sutter do - or Charlie for that matter. There's also the reality that even GREAT coaches like Pop could have some real flaws that are overlooked because they do other aspects of the job really well.

[Solaxys]

I cannot seem to put this eloquently so I'll stumble through it.

 

---

Whether Montoyo is the reason or not, I have no clue and I won't pretend that I do.

 

But there is so much 'shrug' factor in this team and its irking. Like, they think they have it made or something.

Even when it was going well in June, there have been so many baserunning mistakes, and defensive misplays (routine plays that should be made or OF throws that should go to 2nd but sail to 3rd or Teo/Lourdes not hustling to get to a ball or randomly Chap booting routine grounders/not throwing to 1B cause shift was active or Bo trying to be flashy and making errors which Vladdy prevented etc...)

Wish there was a stat on "how many outs were given up by the team" - 'cause that'd be a revelation.

 

Vlad might be having a good season (maybe not elite as last year, but its still good) but how do you cheer for a guy who just concedes outs? Twice this year, he didn't even go out of the batter's box on a ground ball.

That attitude is so weird to be normalized; especially when you are struggling to win games, force the opponent to lose the games!

f***ing Judge hustles every single groundball and he is more at risk of injury than Vlad.

Even Kirk grits it out with his 7 percentile speed and makes a LOT of plays closer than they are - the sheer amount of infield singles are a testament to that.

 

We don't believe in stealing bases either? Like the f***? We have one of the youngest teams yet our total SB/CS count is 47 (21st in the league, 12th in AL) & wSB is -2.7?

This team is so anti-manufacture runs, its baffling - 25th in the majors in Sac Flys and how many bases loaded did we have with 0/1 outs with nothing to show for?

 

Fundamental baseball is so lacking and when bad luck compounds on top of that (BABIP, balls going through f***ing gloves, w.e), you become the laughing stock of baseball.

 

I shouldn't take this personally 'cause its a game but you go to Seattle - 4 game trip, have an insane amount of fans that probably will never have a chance this year to see you live again show up, cheer you on, and you lose 2-3 games on errors/misplays. I'd imagine they all wanted to burn their jerseys by the end of that.

At this point, if we can manage it, I want a Mariner/Jays postseason matchup and we go back to T-mobile Park and put on a show; redeem some sort of respect, cause that's so surreal.

Edited July 11, 2022 by Solaxys

[Daniel Labude]

I cannot seem to put this eloquently so I'll stumble through it.

 

---

Whether Montoyo is the reason or not, I have no clue and I won't pretend that I do.

 

But there is so much 'shrug' factor in this team and its irking. Like, they think they have it made or something.

Even when it was going well in June, there have been so many baserunning mistakes, and defensive misplays (routine plays that should be made or OF throws that should go to 2nd but sail to 3rd or Teo/Lourdes not hustling to get to a ball or randomly Chap booting routine grounders/not throwing to 1B cause shift was active etc...)

 

Vlad might be having a good season (maybe not elite as last year, but its still good) but how do you cheer for a guy who just concedes outs? Twice this year, he didn't even go out of the batter's box on a ground ball.

That attitude is so weird to be normalized; especially when you are struggling to win games, force the opponent to lose the games!

f***ing Judge hustles every single groundball and he is more at risk of injury than Vlad.

Even Kirk grits it out with his 7 percentile speed and makes a LOT of plays closer than they are - the sheer amount of infield singles are a testament to that.

 

We don't believe in stealing bases either? Like the f***? We have one of the youngest teams yet our total SB/CS count is 47 (21st in the league, 12th in AL) & wSB is -2.7?

This team is so anti-manufacture runs, its baffling - 25th in the majors in Sac Flys and how many bases loaded did we have with 0/1 outs with nothing to show for?

 

Fundamental baseball is so lacking and when bad luck compounds on top of that (BABIP, balls going through f***ing gloves, w.e), you become the laughing stock of baseball.

 

I shouldn't take this personally 'cause its a game but you go to Seattle - 4 game trip, have an insane amount of fans that probably will never have a chance to see you again live show up, cheer you on, and you lose 2-3 games on errors/misplays. At this point, if we can manage it, I want a Mariner/Jays postseason matchup and we go back to T-mobile Park and put on a show; redeem some sort of respect, cause that's so surreal.

 

1. Defense and base running has been pretty obvious issues that seems to compound as time goes on

 

2. Don't care. Consider it the analytical play of running to 1B. Vlad hits the ball so hard that when its statistically a guaranteed out and no chance of making it close he doesn't run it out full go or far. Deal with it. The analysis shows clearly that this method helps keep Vlad fresher and not tired, while allowing for less chances for injury. Vlad goes full out on grounders that will be close or he can beat and those are the ones you want him to run on. Its about the long game and his method is backed by science and data. Vlad's 2nd half last year he tired tremendously and has said he is doing everything to stay fresh this year. Not running on clear outs is acceptable

 

3. We suck at manufacturing runs thats for sure. Stealing bases is part of it. Bigger issue is situational hitting (runner on 3rd less than 2 outs and RISP)

 

I do think coaching plays a role in 1 and 3. Montoyo receives the blame imo

[John_Havok]

I'm working on a long piece about swing decisions, and how much worse the jays are at this than last year. It's coming soon. It may not be a 100% "this explains everything" thing... but it's most certainly a factor.

[John_Havok]

Why do you think it's just one extreme or the other? I guess I should caveat my position by saying there are different types of 'yelling'. There's the guy who yells at the entire team and calls people out in front of the entire team. I don't think that's effective. But if you want to call someone into your office to have a very stern conversation about their performance and what you need out of them - that's another story. If you set clear expectations and tell them what will happen if they don't do it - and you follow through with that - I think that's a much more effective approach.

 

I have no idea what Pop and Sutter do - or Charlie for that matter. There's also the reality that even GREAT coaches like Pop could have some real flaws that are overlooked because they do other aspects of the job really well.

 

[Spanky99]

https://sportsnaut.com/mlb-playoffs-schedule-bracket-dates/amp/

 

Jays win the WS. You saw it here first folks

 

Woohoo... lol.

[L54]

Why do you think it's just one extreme or the other? I guess I should caveat my position by saying there are different types of 'yelling'. There's the guy who yells at the entire team and calls people out in front of the entire team. I don't think that's effective. But if you want to call someone into your office to have a very stern conversation about their performance and what you need out of them - that's another story. If you set clear expectations and tell them what will happen if they don't do it - and you follow through with that - I think that's a much more effective approach.

 

I have no idea what Pop and Sutter do - or Charlie for that matter. There's also the reality that even GREAT coaches like Pop could have some real flaws that are overlooked because they do other aspects of the job really well.

 

It doesn’t have to be one extreme or another. A great coach is a guy who respects you as a player and a person and is easy to get along with. But when you deserve to get mother f***ed if you will he doesn’t hesitate to do it.

 

I doubt the players truly respect Charlie. The inmates are running the asylum right now. It’s all fine and dandy when you’re winning, but when the going gets tough and there isn’t a true leader to lead things fall apart quickly.

[L54]

Oh hey guys ya the analytics department said today that nobody should run out ground balls tonight. Our readiness score today was only 67% as a team after returning from the west coast.

 

George you’re DH’ing, Zim you’re in center, Tapia you’re in right, Kirk you’re on the bench. All in an effort to optimize recovery

 

Who cares if we’re 45-43, at least everyone will be fresh in September when we’re three games back of the WC.

[John_Havok]

It doesn’t have to be one extreme or another. A great coach is a guy who respects you as a player and a person and is easy to get along with. But when you deserve to get mother f***ed if you will he doesn’t hesitate to do it.

 

I doubt the players truly respect Charlie. The inmates are running the asylum right now. It’s all fine and dandy when you’re winning, but when the going gets tough and there isn’t a true leader to lead things fall apart quickly.

 

To be fair, you have 0 idea what goes on behind the Jays clubhouse doors and youre making assumptions based on the extremely limited viewings youve had of Charlie during his interviews.

 

Just sayin... you(or any of us) don't KNOW anything about what he does when the cameras arent on. he could be doing exactly what youre suggesting and it's not working either.

[BigCecil]

It doesn’t have to be one extreme or another. A great coach is a guy who respects you as a player and a person and is easy to get along with. But when you deserve to get mother f***ed if you will he doesn’t hesitate to do it.

 

I doubt the players truly respect Charlie. The inmates are running the asylum right now. It’s all fine and dandy when you’re winning, but when the going gets tough and there isn’t a true leader to lead things fall apart quickly.

 

I agree with this. Last year when he started helping the guys put on the HR jacket never sat well with me. If players want to I guess. It's like he is trying too hard to be one of the guys and liked. I think most of us want Charlie gone. This FO hired him and sticks with him. It's on them as far as I'm concerned. Sutter will joke with his team but they fear and respect him and ya occasionally he f***ing yells at them. He also uses playing time as a reward or punishment. Some baseball managers are same but it's usually harder to see in the dugout or clubhouse. Some of what Charlie may do or say we will never see or know. Yelling all the time has a shelf life. Charlie's comments about how they played well losing 6/7 still ring in my ears.

Edited July 12, 2022 by BigCecil

[Terminator]

Completely agree. But there are several approaches to successfully do this that don't include yelling at adults or embarrassing or calling out players in front of the group. Typically people who lack the skills or abilities to handle difficult situations revert to yelling.

 

Lol wow bro the best manager in team history used to literally FIST FIGHT his own players and you’re worried about a little yelling? Do you think Yankee fans show concern if Aaron Boone starts chewing ass in the dugout?

[Terminator]

Let’s face it. If Gibbons were the manager of this team Kikuchi would have been on the DL weeks ago after Gibbons rightfully put his foot up Kikuchi’s ass for sucking so bad.

 

Imagine this tweet from a horrified Arash Mafatty: “The club has placed SP Yusei Kikuchi on the DL after manager John Gibbons whooped his ass in a fist fight following Kikuchi’s removal in the 2nd inning of last night’s game. I’ve been told there’s no time table for his return but Kikuchi left eye is swollen shut after a Gibbons right hook.”

[BlueJaysFever]

Everyone forum has a tough guy. I guess I found this one's. Jesus.

[Dagagad]

No fundamentals, fire the manager, bench players for messing up, players having too much fun… I’ve almost got a whole line in losing team fan bingo!

[BlueJaysFever]

I’d imagine this doesn’t surprise many

 

 

[vdartanian]

If Charlie said the team played well on this road trip, he should be fired for insulting everyone's intelligence.

 

Just getting back from Seattle and never been so upset to be a fan of this team. Saturday's game was a lot more disappointing then Sundays as there were a lot of wasted opportunities.

 

Sunday seemed like a foregone conclusion, body language of several players you could tell they just didn't want to be there. Vlad especially seemed like a toddler with a full diaper on the verge of a tantrum. Never even bothered to turn around when glove busted through his mitt and slow-walked his way to the dugout to get a replacement.

 

Both the team and fans seemed relieved when Santana hit the go ahead homer in the 8th...happy to be put out of our misery.

 

No fight in this team at all on this road trip and someone needs to be accountable for that.

Edited July 12, 2022 by vdartanian

[Spanky99]

I’d imagine this doesn’t surprise many

 

 

 

FTFY... it's so obvious, totally between the ears.

[Stangstag]

FTFY... it's so obvious, totally between the ears.

 

Yeah im feeling like Kikuchi is pretty much a write-off for this year. Have him work over the offseason/spring training and give him another shot next year. If he still sucks 2023 maybe just cut your losses and release him.

[L54]

it's the HIGH PERFORMANCE Department. Get the corporate jargon mumbo jumbo right at least.

 

The Underperformance Department

[L54]

I agree with this. Last year when he started helping the guys put on the HR jacket never sat well with me. If players want to I guess. It's like he is trying too hard to be one of the guys and liked. I think most of us want Charlie gone. This FO hired him and sticks with him. It's on them as far as I'm concerned. Sutter will joke with his team but they fear and respect him and ya occasionally he f***ing yells at them. He also uses playing time as a reward or punishment. Some baseball managers are same but it's usually harder to see in the dugout or clubhouse. Some of what Charlie may do or say we will never see or know. Yelling all the time has a shelf life. Charlie's comments about how they played well losing 6/7 still ring in my ears.

 

Yup he really comes across as trying to be one of the guys and not the boss. Which is probably exactly what he was hired to do.

[L54]

To be fair, you have 0 idea what goes on behind the Jays clubhouse doors and youre making assumptions based on the extremely limited viewings youve had of Charlie during his interviews.

 

Just sayin... you(or any of us) don't KNOW anything about what he does when the cameras arent on. he could be doing exactly what youre suggesting and it's not working either.

 

You’re right that I don’t have insider knowledge. What I can do is decipher and form an opinion from what I see and that’s (I’m going to repeat other posters points) no accountability on either side of the ball, an oh well attitude from most of the team, failure to move Bo’s .300 OBP from the two hole the entire season basically

 

If Charlie is doing exactly what I’m saying and it’s not working then it’s still time to move on because that means they don’t respect his authority.

[Spanky99]

For a bit more clarity...lol

 

“We played well, you know?” Montoyo said. “Just tough freakin’ luck. I've seen it twice now this year and usually doesn't happen to the same guy. That kind of changed the momentum. Everybody felt it. Everybody knows the game. That was a tough break.

 

“But hey, we came back and took the lead again, so you’ve got to give our guys credit. It's time, tomorrow, to reset. Take a break. Again, we didn't play bad. We’re right there. We'll get back on track.”

 

The Blue Jays can do that if their banged-up pitching staff returns to health, and a Tuesday start by Kevin Gausman, whose bruised right ankle forced him to miss his turn in the rotation in Seattle, would help. They also can do that if they live up to the offensive promise that made them one of the teams to watch in the AL heading into 2022.

 

Bichette, for one, might be ready to bust out. He came into Sunday’s game in an uncharacteristic funk, hitting .208 (5-for-24) on the road trip with only two RBIs. But he was all over Seattle’s pitchers Sunday, and his homer off reliever Penn Murfee was his 14th of the season.

 

“That's another bright side that happened today,” Montoyo said. “He's been struggling a little bit this road trip, but he had a good game today.”

 

Phelps, a veteran presence in the clubhouse, said the Blue Jays are too good of a team to let these current doldrums eat them up.

 

“I fully believe this is about the time we're going to start winning baseball games,” Phelps said. “At the end of the day, we're in a playoff spot. I think that's something to realize, ‘OK, we haven't played nearly up to our ability, but that just means that the future is brighter once we start really all get clicking.'

 

“I think we're on the precipice of that.”

[JFD]

I haven't witnessed this lack of fundamental IQ, poor lineup decisions and no accountability since watching a Travis Green coached hockey team.

[Terminator]

Everyone forum has a tough guy. I guess I found this one's. Jesus.

 

No longer a tough guy. I’ve only been in one fight since turning 60 a couple of years ago. (Basically I had just gotten another divorce and the guy had it coming when he started mouthing off to my friend Spanky who posts here.)

 

Bit I do know something about managing a team. We won 8 darts championships in the mid 90s at my local bar. Anytime someone was throwing them like s*** all I would have to do is get in their face a little bit. If that didn’t work I’d get someone new to join the team. Pretty simple really.