General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2022)

[connorp]

Also, the bullpen we started with last season was:

 

Romano

Dolis

Borucki

Chatwood

Phelps

Merryweather

Mayza

Thornton

Payamps

 

Doils, Chatwood and Payamps replaced by Cimber, Richards and Garcia.

 

It's not great, but is improved and should be solid enough.

 

Be real. The BP is a total coin flip. I’m definitely with you on the rotation part

[Eat My Shatkins]

Be real. The BP is a total coin flip. I’m definitely with you on the rotation part

 

Of course it is, but the Jays kept the relievers that performed well last season, and replaced a few of the dog s*** ones with guys who then also performed well last season.

 

Then you have total wildcards like Merryweather and Phelps who struggled with injuries and should help if they can stray healthy.

 

I'm just saying it looks improved on paper, but yes many things could go wrong for sure.

[Carlos Danger]

It's not a "realistic assessment", you simply don't know what the f*** you are talking about. Berrios pitches one good game then two bad games? Since he became a regular starter in 2017 he's been the 14th most valuable starter in all of baseball. And you are complaining about guys like Gausman and Kikuchi before they've made a single regular season start in a Jays uniform. If you want to be taken seriously and not viewed as an annoying assclown with garbage opinions you need to smarten up and stop spouting nonsense in every goddamn post you make.

 

I think you need to chill, your opinion is not anymore important nor credible then this guy. Who the f*** do you think you are spouting off on the guy like this for having a baseball opinion. You are saying you can't complain about a player until they make a single start in a Jay's uniform?

 

He has an alternate opinion on Berrios. However, is what he said about Ryu wrong? Kikuchi had a very poor second half, and is coming to the AL East...

 

You are acting like an internet bully, go look in the mirror, reflect on how you are talking to people who's only crime is not hobbing the knob of our Team construction and be a better person. That poster didn't deserve that diatribe.

[Key22]

Of course it is, but the Jays kept the relievers that performed well last season, and replaced a few of the dog s*** ones with guys who then also performed well last season.

 

Then you have total wildcards like Merryweather and Phelps who struggled with injuries and should help if they can stray healthy.

 

I'm just saying it looks improved on paper, but yes many things could go wrong for sure.

 

If Phelps and Merryweather stay healthy and do what they can do that would be HUGE for this pen. Big Swing and miss guys to go with Romano and Garcia can really give the pen some shut down guys to go along with solid relievers like Cimber, Richards, and Mayza. Health is a huge part of this - but Phelps looks to have pretty elite stuff as does Merryweather.

 

You'd think the Jays have some good luck coming their way one of these years.

[Stangstag]

Be real. The BP is a total coin flip. I’m definitely with you on the rotation part

 

Honestly I agree. But I also agree with the idea that wasting resources/money on “good” relievers is also maybe a bad idea since relievers tend to be extremely volatile.

 

Unfortunately we got f***ed on the luck front in 2021 with the bullpen. 2020 bullpen was pretty much the same except guys like Dolis and Borucki were actually good. 2021 the same group of guys all sucked outside of Romano and occasionally Mayza.

[InsideThePark]

I feel quite good about Adrian Hernandez and Eisert being some solid pen options towards the end of the year if we need someone to step in. Both are changeup guys rather than your typical high 90's fastball guys who typically fill your pen, but they both just keep piling up the strikeouts as the work their way up the system. Eisert gave up a HR and a walk in his AAA debut today but got 5 K's in 2 innings. It'll be interesting to see how comfortable they are giving either of those guys a look if they need an arm or if they look more towards a Danner type who's already on the 40 man and and reportedly throwing a lot harder than he has in the past

[jaysblue]

Yer dumn!!!

 

Wanna bet?

[max silver]

I think you need to chill, your opinion is not anymore important nor credible then this guy. Who the f*** do you think you are spouting off on the guy like this for having a baseball opinion. You are saying you can't complain about a player until they make a single start in a Jay's uniform?

 

He has an alternate opinion on Berrios. However, is what he said about Ryu wrong? Kikuchi had a very poor second half, and is coming to the AL East...

 

You are acting like an internet bully, go look in the mirror, reflect on how you are talking to people who's only crime is not hobbing the knob of our Team construction and be a better person. That poster didn't deserve that diatribe.

 

Thanks for the lecture grandma, but you can take the white knight fluffery elsewhere where it's wanted. The poster in question has a history of troll level nonsense and I've yet to see a single post that adds anything of value to any discussion. This site has no tolerance for dumbass opinions so I'm not sure why you are so quick to jump to the defence of this particular poster unless you've also been a regular receiver of ass whippings because of your own poorly thought out opinions.

 

Berrios is a good number 2 starter and one of baseball's most consistent starters year in and year out. This poor opinion is so off base that it almost immediately labels anything else that is said as not worth even responding to. The guy potentially has another level of performance he can reach but even if he doesn't he's still a very valuable member of the rotation.

 

Blaming Ryu for individually causing the team to miss the playoffs is equally as asinine. The last I checked baseball was a team sport, and one individual's performance doesn't make or break a season. Despite Ryu's second half struggles he still provided 2.5 WAR for the season, and in 2020 on a per inning basis he was nearly as valuable for the Jays as he was for the Dodgers in his walk year. I can go ahead and blame Joe Panik or TJ Zeuch for the team missing the playoffs since each guy was a sub replacement "contributor", but that's not exactly a reasonable take is it?

 

Ryu and Kikuchi certainly each struggled in the second half, but given how short 2020 was and the sudden crack down on any sort of grip enhancing substances I think guys can receive a bit of a pass. it's likely that a combination of fatigue and lack of ability to grip the baseball to the degree to which they were previously used to each became issues. Kikuchi had a very nice 5 month run in 2020 and the first half of 2021 where he performed like a number 3 starter, and if he can put everything together he has potential for that type of performance again given how good his stuff is. If he flounders a little and is a bit inconsistent (like basically every other fifth starter out there) he's only being paid 5th starter money, so this isn't a super risky deal that should immediately be panned as a bad signing before he's even taken the mound for the Jays in a regular season game.

[Ray]

The bullpen had the 9th best xFIP in baseball (6th best in the AL), and 12th best SIERA (7th best in the AL) after the acquisition of Richards & Cimber. They really helped solidify things down the stretch. The bullpen also wasn't as bad as you'd think. They just happened to always give up runs in high-leverage situations, which made them seem worse than they were. There was certainly some bad luck there. I wouldn't say it's a great bullpen, but certainly above average, and even could be good if managed properly by Montoyo (which he got better at as the season went on).

 

Overall:

 

Romano (great)

Mayza (good, could be great if he takes a step forward)

Garcia (good)

Cimber (good)

Richards (good)

Merryweather (great, when healthy)

Phelps (good, when healthy)

Saucedo (fine, when used in the right situations)

Stripling (good for a long reliever)

Thornton (meh. Fine for mop up duty)

 

Not many "bad" relievers there, but we'll have to see how it pans out. Bullpens are volatile year-to-year, and it'll probably look different by end of April anyways. Improved defense with Chapman at 3B will help. SP's giving good outings will help. Montoyo not being a total numbskull with some of his decision-making (hopefully) will help.

[connorp]

It's not a "realistic assessment", you simply don't know what the f*** you are talking about. Berrios pitches one good game then two bad games? Since he became a regular starter in 2017 he's been the 14th most valuable starter in all of baseball. And you are complaining about guys like Gausman and Kikuchi before they've made a single regular season start in a Jays uniform. If you want to be taken seriously and not viewed as an annoying assclown with garbage opinions you need to smarten up and stop spouting nonsense in every goddamn post you make.

 

I really don’t think it’s an idiotic opinion. I like Berrios and I wouldn’t trash him but the opinion is hardly outlandish. You can do gymnastics whichever way you want. He’s a lifetime 4 ERA/FIP guy. That’s been mostly where he’s hovered before he kicked it up a notch last year. I personally think he’ll be closer to last years numbers again. However, I wouldn’t call someone an idiot for calling him inconsistent in his career to date. Or that he didn’t live up to possible front line rotation material that may have been the hope for some early on.

 

I know I targeted him in fantasy thinking he was going to take the next step and cut bait after awhile because of the inconsistency

 

His value has basically been in his durability. Like Marc Beuhrle, even if there is differences in how their numbers compute

Edited April 7, 2022 by connorp

[connorp]

I’m sure there’s a WAR/Game Started stat?

[L54]

Thanks for the lecture grandma, but you can take the white knight fluffery elsewhere where it's wanted. The poster in question has a history of troll level nonsense and I've yet to see a single post that adds anything of value to any discussion. This site has no tolerance for dumbass opinions so I'm not sure why you are so quick to jump to the defence of this particular poster unless you've also been a regular receiver of ass whippings because of your own poorly thought out opinions.

 

Berrios is a good number 2 starter and one of baseball's most consistent starters year in and year out. This poor opinion is so off base that it almost immediately labels anything else that is said as not worth even responding to. The guy potentially has another level of performance he can reach but even if he doesn't he's still a very valuable member of the rotation.

 

Blaming Ryu for individually causing the team to miss the playoffs is equally as asinine. The last I checked baseball was a team sport, and one individual's performance doesn't make or break a season. Despite Ryu's second half struggles he still provided 2.5 WAR for the season, and in 2020 on a per inning basis he was nearly as valuable for the Jays as he was for the Dodgers in his walk year. I can go ahead and blame Joe Panik or TJ Zeuch for the team missing the playoffs since each guy was a sub replacement "contributor", but that's not exactly a reasonable take is it?

 

Ryu and Kikuchi certainly each struggled in the second half, but given how short 2020 was and the sudden crack down on any sort of grip enhancing substances I think guys can receive a bit of a pass. it's likely that a combination of fatigue and lack of ability to grip the baseball to the degree to which they were previously used to each became issues. Kikuchi had a very nice 5 month run in 2020 and the first half of 2021 where he performed like a number 3 starter, and if he can put everything together he has potential for that type of performance again given how good his stuff is. If he flounders a little and is a bit inconsistent (like basically every other fifth starter out there) he's only being paid 5th starter money, so this isn't a super risky deal that should immediately be panned as a bad signing before he's even taken the mound for the Jays in a regular season game.

 

You sound like a complete clown

 

“ThiS sltE hAs no toLeraNcE f0r duMbaSS oPiNionS”

 

Uhhhhh who says that? I read plenty of them every day but most guys don’t get their panties in a knot like you did

 

You need to smoke a joint and stop slobbing the knob of every single Blue Jay. The lengths you’ll go to to defend players gives off a weird/creepy vibe

[Eat My Shatkins]

The Jays are a contender, but one nice thing is that this isn't a one year deal.

 

Jays will get two legit cracks at it with this roster if they want, as the only guys that are free agents after this season are Phelps and Stripling.

 

Meanwhile guys like Moreno, Martinez and Groshans will be inching closer and closer to making an MLB impact as well.

[L54]

The Jays are a contender, but one nice thing is that this isn't a one year deal.

 

Jays will get two legit cracks at it with this roster if they want, as the only guys that are free agents after this season are Phelps and Stripling.

 

Meanwhile guys like Moreno, Martinez and Groshans will be inching closer and closer to making an MLB impact as well.

 

Yup. Should see all three of those guys either in the majors or traded for big league help in the next two years

[max silver]

You sound like a complete clown

 

“ThiS sltE hAs no toLeraNcE f0r duMbaSS oPiNionS”

 

Uhhhhh who says that? I read plenty of them every day but most guys don’t get their panties in a knot like you did

 

You need to smoke a joint and stop slobbing the knob of every single Blue Jay. The lengths you’ll go to to defend players gives off a weird/creepy vibe

 

Whoa man looks like it's time to chill out and go get laid if a post where I'm mostly refuting statements which I view to be largely false gets you so hot and bothered. There's plenty of shade thrown around on here every single day when there are disagreements on opinions, you must be completely ignorant of reality to pretend that this isn't the case. Feel free to spend a second refuting anything that you are responding to, I just see a bunch of hot air with zero substance coming from you here.

 

And if we are going to talk about weird/creepy vibes lets start talking about your Trevor Bauer hero worship. It's time to look in the mirror if you want to start throwing out accusations of weird/creepy behavior. It's easy to come to the conclusion that you fantasize over the man with the way that you defend his every action at every single opportunity which arises.

[Laika]

Stop or I will mooooooderaaaaaaate

[L54]

Whoa man looks like it's time to chill out and go get laid if a post where I'm mostly refuting statements which I view to be largely false gets you so hot and bothered. There's plenty of shade thrown around on here every single day when there are disagreements on opinions, you must be completely ignorant of reality to pretend that this isn't the case. Feel free to spend a second refuting anything that you are responding to, I just see a bunch of hot air with zero substance coming from you here.

 

And if we are going to talk about weird/creepy vibes lets start talking about your Trevor Bauer hero worship. It's time to look in the mirror if you want to start throwing out accusations of weird/creepy behavior. It's easy to come to the conclusion that you fantasize over the man with the way that you defend his every action at every single opportunity which arises.

 

My TB hero worship is done to troll the he/hims like you here who are triggered by someone supporting him. I have no problem confessing my love for TB and I can’t wait to watch him on the bump in 2022.

 

You were acting like an ******* and I called you out for sounding like a clown and so did others. People are allowed to have opinions that differ from yours here and should be able to post them without being told they don’t know what the f*** they’re talking about.

 

The Jays are about to be good and this board is about to get busy again this season. If guys like you are patrolling and calling everyone who has an opinion that strays from the Fangraphs bible an idiot people will be less likely to join or become an active member.

 

Please join BORED since you’re so intelligent

[max silver]

The bullpen had the 9th best xFIP in baseball (6th best in the AL), and 12th best SIERA (7th best in the AL) after the acquisition of Richards & Cimber. They really helped solidify things down the stretch. The bullpen also wasn't as bad as you'd think. They just happened to always give up runs in high-leverage situations, which made them seem worse than they were. There was certainly some bad luck there. I wouldn't say it's a great bullpen, but certainly above average, and even could be good if managed properly by Montoyo (which he got better at as the season went on).

 

Overall:

 

Romano (great)

Mayza (good, could be great if he takes a step forward)

Garcia (good)

Cimber (good)

Richards (good)

Merryweather (great, when healthy)

Phelps (good, when healthy)

Saucedo (fine, when used in the right situations)

Stripling (good for a long reliever)

Thornton (meh. Fine for mop up duty)

 

Not many "bad" relievers there, but we'll have to see how it pans out. Bullpens are volatile year-to-year, and it'll probably look different by end of April anyways. Improved defense with Chapman at 3B will help. SP's giving good outings will help. Montoyo not being a total numbskull with some of his decision-making (hopefully) will help.

 

I like to split the Jays pen into three distinct phases. In April the pen was fantastic, as it ranked 3rd in ERA, 8th in FIP, and 13th by SIERA. There were far too many innings to cover as the rotation struggled a ton to start the season, and once injuries became an issue the pen proceeded to perform very poorly for the months of May and June. ERA dropped to 20th in MLB, FIP down to 21st, SIERA to 21st.

 

The Cimber and Richards acquisition definitely helped to solidify the pen as it gave Montoyo two more relievers that he could actually trust in a tight game. Prior to these trades it was basically just two guys that could be depended on to hold leads in Romano and Mayza. Surprisingly enough though the Jays bullpen numbers for the season as a whole are actually better than what the team produced after the trade deadline. The front office had a swing and a miss in a few of the deadline acquisitions as both Hand and Soria really struggled in Jays uniforms.

 

Just how good or bad the Jays bullpen was after the trade deadline depends largely on which set of numbers you examine. When you look at ERA the Jays pen ranked 17th, so pretty much middle of the pack. FIP looks pretty bad as the team ranked 25th, which looks to be largely due to an excessive amount of home runs allowed, where the team ranked as 4th worst in MLB. The amount of damage the bullpen struggles could cause was largely mitigated due to the starters really rolling in the second half as the bullpen only needed to cover 255 innings, lowest in MLB.

 

I do still like this pen's chance to be at least solid, but much of this will depend on the performance of the starters. This shouldn't be a huge issue given the expected quality of the rotation but as we saw in 2021 a solid bullpen can quickly become well below average with overuse and when the inevitable injuries start to occur.

[max silver]

My TB hero worship is done to troll the he/hims like you here who are triggered by someone supporting him. I have no problem confessing my love for TB and I can’t wait to watch him on the bump in 2022.

 

You were acting like an ******* and I called you out for sounding like a clown and so did others. People are allowed to have opinions that differ from yours here and should be able to post them without being told they don’t know what the f*** they’re talking about.

 

The Jays are about to be good and this board is about to get busy again this season. If guys like you are patrolling and calling everyone who has an opinion that strays from the Fangraphs bible an idiot people will be less likely to join or become an active member.

 

Please join BORED since you’re so intelligent

 

I don't care about your man-crush on Trevor Bauer, feel free to fantasize about him slapping you silly and then sodomizing you all you want. You're free to defend the resident troll all you want as well if that's your cup of tea, knock yourself out.

[Carlos Danger]

Thanks for the lecture grandma, but you can take the white knight fluffery elsewhere where it's wanted. The poster in question has a history of troll level nonsense and I've yet to see a single post that adds anything of value to any discussion. This site has no tolerance for dumbass opinions so I'm not sure why you are so quick to jump to the defence of this particular poster unless you've also been a regular receiver of ass whippings because of your own poorly thought out opinions.

 

Berrios is a good number 2 starter and one of baseball's most consistent starters year in and year out. This poor opinion is so off base that it almost immediately labels anything else that is said as not worth even responding to. The guy potentially has another level of performance he can reach but even if he doesn't he's still a very valuable member of the rotation.

 

Blaming Ryu for individually causing the team to miss the playoffs is equally as asinine. The last I checked baseball was a team sport, and one individual's performance doesn't make or break a season. Despite Ryu's second half struggles he still provided 2.5 WAR for the season, and in 2020 on a per inning basis he was nearly as valuable for the Jays as he was for the Dodgers in his walk year. I can go ahead and blame Joe Panik or TJ Zeuch for the team missing the playoffs since each guy was a sub replacement "contributor", but that's not exactly a reasonable take is it?

 

Ryu and Kikuchi certainly each struggled in the second half, but given how short 2020 was and the sudden crack down on any sort of grip enhancing substances I think guys can receive a bit of a pass. it's likely that a combination of fatigue and lack of ability to grip the baseball to the degree to which they were previously used to each became issues. Kikuchi had a very nice 5 month run in 2020 and the first half of 2021 where he performed like a number 3 starter, and if he can put everything together he has potential for that type of performance again given how good his stuff is. If he flounders a little and is a bit inconsistent (like basically every other fifth starter out there) he's only being paid 5th starter money, so this isn't a super risky deal that should immediately be panned as a bad signing before he's even taken the mound for the Jays in a regular season game.

 

If you would have replied to that poster with the last 3 paragraphs of your post. No one would have said anything.

 

You were being a bully, your were being self righteous, you were being a know it all. There is NOTHING I can see in your posting, history or background to make your opinion have more credibility then anyone else.

 

It is not about being a grandma. It is about before the internet even existed I didn't like bullies. Now you are being a bully, flat out hard stop.

 

Just post like you did the last three paragraphs and show him why his "opinion" is "wrong" sin the diatribe.

 

L54 is exactly right. Who wants to come on to this page to debate/talk baseball which is the point and be the recipient of the vitriol you were spewing.

 

There are posters on here with high post counts, even cool screen names who consistently are wrong in their baseball assessments and opinions.

 

High quantity of posts and low quality of posting as proven by results opposite to what they were preaching as fact/the gospel. Some are even mods.

 

I missed the memo where you or any other poster is superior to another as long as it is a purely baseball discussion. Lastly, talking baseball and putting forward an alternate opinion is not trolling. I know trolling when I see it, that is not it!

 

Chillax and talk baseball dude, not personal attacks!

Edited April 7, 2022 by Carlos Danger

[connorp]

Stop or I will mooooooderaaaaaaate

 

They kept going anyway. Get yourself an e-whistle or something

[The Cats Ass]

Stop or I will mooooooderaaaaaaate

 

You're looking very weak right now, like whatever comes after a beta.

[L54]

Nah he put the whistles away and let the boys play. I respect that.

[Dick_Pole]

The season starts on Friday, April 8th at 7 PM.

 

Jose Berrios starts us off against Jon Gray and the Texas Rangers. Kevin Gausman and Hyun Jin Ryu are expected to follow against some combination of Martin Perez and Dane Dunning.

 

Go Jays Go!

 

Jays prop bet over 10,000 runs this series.

[Dick_Pole]

An argument over the gatekeeping in this forum started over that Felix post, which I agree was a very stupid post. It's good to take a cautious approach on Gausman but Berrios has been pretty consistent (IIRC he stunk it up the first couple of Jays starts but was good the rest of the way) and Kikuchi is a #5 and you get what you get in that slot. This pitching staff is fine for the offense. They'll Jack Morris their way to a lot of wins.

[Laika]

They kept going anyway. Get yourself an e-whistle or something

 

I was just going through the motions. Had no intention of moderating.

 

Interesting to see Carlos Danger change so much though. Very different colour to his posts now.

[Laika]

The way I see this:

 

- Everyone has the right to express opinions, even bad opinions

- JF does have a history of bad posts

- When someone repeatedly expresses bad opinions you can question the legitimacy or intent of their continued participation

- I completely get max's initial response to JF which was basically "you need to stop spouting garbage if you want to be taken seriously"

- Honestly don't really get why Carlos Danger and L54 decided to step in as the self appointed police against internet bullies. Like, the whole thing is completely done at little more than a parting "you're dumb" if CD and L54 don't feel this moral push to defend JF. And then CD accused max of making JF suffer through a "diatribe" when it was literally one paragraph of heated disagreement and nothing more.

 

Max is right that we have a long and proud board history of calling each other morons. Sometimes we take that too far but it is a pillar of our society. You f***ing idiots.

[John_Havok]

The way I see this:

 

- Everyone has the right to express opinions, even bad opinions

- JF does have a history of bad posts

- When someone repeatedly expresses bad opinions you can question the legitimacy or intent of their continued participation

- I completely get max's initial response to JF which was basically "you need to stop spouting garbage if you want to be taken seriously"

- Honestly don't really get why Carlos Danger and L54 decided to step in as the self appointed police against internet bullies. Like, the whole thing is completely done at little more than a parting "you're dumb" if CD and L54 don't feel this moral push to defend JF. And then CD accused max of making JF suffer through a "diatribe" when it was literally one paragraph of heated disagreement and nothing more.

 

Max is right that we have a long and proud board history of calling each other morons. Sometimes we take that too far but it is a pillar of our society. You f***ing idiots.

 

We're all idiots. May as well be the 2004 Red Sox.

[mellowgold]

We're all idiots. May as well be the 2004 Red Sox.

 

I wonder who our Curt Schilling would be. Plenty of good options, it would seem.

[L54]

Probably me