Jays 2021/22 General Off-Season Discussion

[TwistedLogic]

Personally, I have a feeling that the Jays are planning on signing multiple top free agents, which is why they don't care about draft pick compensation as much and have made offers to Rodriguez and Syndergaard already. If you're only gonna sign one big guy, it's kind of sus giving up a draft pick to take a flyer on someone like Syndergaard but if you're signing one or two other big FA's, Syndergaard only costs you a 3rd or 4th round pick, which is a lot easier to part with.

 

They could also be considering that they'll be getting multiple comp picks from Ray/Semien so they can sacrifice some mid-draft picks without blinking an eye.

 

And I get that the Blue Jays are "in on" everybody every offseason but it's one thing to check in on everyone and it's another to make offers. We've heard that the Jays have already put offers in on E-Rod and Thor. Which tells me they are playing to win in this market and not just kicking tires.

[TwistedLogic]

And I should probably take Kershaw off that list since the Dodgers must know what's up with his elbow if they didn't even tender him.

 

The Dodgers didn't qualify Kershaw as a favor for his service to the franchise. They wanted him to go into free agency without the anchor of a compensation pick weighing down his market. They're still considered one of the two favorites to sign him (with Texas as the other major player). The Blue Jays have no shot at him.

[InsideThePark]

Personally, I have a feeling that the Jays are planning on signing multiple top free agents, which is why they don't care about draft pick compensation as much and have made offers to Rodriguez and Syndergaard already. If you're only gonna sign one big guy, it's kind of sus giving up a draft pick to take a flyer on someone like Syndergaard but if you're signing one or two other big FA's, Syndergaard only costs you a 3rd or 4th round pick, which is a lot easier to part with.

 

They could also be considering that they'll be getting multiple comp picks from Ray/Semien so they can sacrifice some mid-draft picks without blinking an eye.

 

And I get that the Blue Jays are "in on" everybody every offseason but it's one thing to check in on everyone and it's another to make offers. We've heard that the Jays have already put offers in on E-Rod and Thor. Which tells me they are playing to win in this market and not just kicking tires.

 

I can never remember, does the 2nd highest/3rd highest, etc pick include any comp picks you receive? So for example we get 2 comp picks between round 2 and 3 if we don't resign Ray and Semien. Lets say we sign Corey Seager and Verlander, we give up our 2nd round pick for 1 of them. Is the other pick we give up our 3rd round pick, or the highest of our 2 comp picks

[L54]

I’d love to sign Verlander for two years and fill the final rotation spot with one of the mid tier options available in free agency or in trade.

 

No long term commitments added to the rotation and massive upside. Should still be able to add an infielder and a couple BP pieces depending how cheap you go on the second SP.

[Eat My Shatkins]

Scherzer + Verlander would be a massive home run in my opinion. Verlander for 1-2 years and Scherzer for 2-3 years.

 

On paper that rotation would be off the hook and you avoid the long term commitments you'd have if you signed a Ray or a Gausman for example.

 

Scherzer

Berrios

Verlander

Ryu

Manoah

 

Then you bring Pearson along slowly and hang onto all your prospect capital for now.

[G-Snarls]

Scherzer + Verlander would be a massive home run in my opinion. Verlander for 1-2 years and Scherzer for 2-3 years.

 

On paper that rotation would be off the hook and you avoid the long term commitments you'd have if you signed a Ray or a Gausman for example.

 

Scherzer

Berrios

Verlander

Ryu

Manoah

 

Then you bring Pearson along slowly and hang onto all your prospect capital for now.

 

No chance the Jays outbid everyone for both of those guys and they both want to sign here

[THANOS]

I’d love to sign Verlander for two years and fill the final rotation spot with one of the mid tier options available in free agency or in trade.

 

No long term commitments added to the rotation and massive upside. Should still be able to add an infielder and a couple BP pieces depending how cheap you go on the second SP.

 

Verlander + Jon Gray sounds great to me. Probably something like 35 AAV combined.

[Eat My Shatkins]

No chance the Jays outbid everyone for both of those guys and they both want to sign here

 

Probably not but you never know. I wouldn't count this FO out of anything.

[THANOS]

Thinking about it further, my ideal off-season is probably below:

 

- Justin Verlander 2/44

- Jon Gray 3/48

- Marcus Semien 6/144

- Raisel Iglesias 4/60

 

Total added AAV of 76M (21 + 16 + 24 + 15)

 

That said, you don't necessarily need the last two. You could sign a stop gap like Kyle Seager to platoon with Espinal at 3B for a year until Groshans or Moreno gives them the boot, while Biggio keeps 2B warm for one more season and revisit in FA 2022. And Iglesias may be too expensive, but he sure is a beacon of consistency like Hendricks is/was. He'd be a nice add nonetheless.

[Spanky99]

Thinking about it further, my ideal off-season is probably below:

 

- Justin Verlander 2/44

- Jon Gray 3/48

- Marcus Semien 6/144

- Raisel Iglesias 4/60

 

Total added AAV of 76M (21 + 16 + 24 + 15)

 

That said, you don't necessarily need the last two. You could sign a stop gap like Kyle Seager to platoon with Espinal at 3B for a year until Groshans or Moreno gives them the boot, while Biggio keeps 2B warm for one more season and revisit in FA 2022. And Iglesias may be too expensive, but he sure is a beacon of consistency like Hendricks is/was. He'd be a nice add nonetheless.

 

That's all.

[Krylian]

Thinking about it further, my ideal off-season is probably below:

 

- Justin Verlander 2/44

- Jon Gray 3/48

- Marcus Semien 6/144

- Raisel Iglesias 4/60

 

Total added AAV of 76M (21 + 16 + 24 + 15)

 

That said, you don't necessarily need the last two. You could sign a stop gap like Kyle Seager to platoon with Espinal at 3B for a year until Groshans or Moreno gives them the boot, while Biggio keeps 2B warm for one more season and revisit in FA 2022. And Iglesias may be too expensive, but he sure is a beacon of consistency like Hendricks is/was. He'd be a nice add nonetheless.

 

Verlander has had one appearance since 2019. Are we sure giving multiple years is a good idea?

[Deadpool]

Verlander has had one appearance since 2019. Are we sure giving multiple years is a good idea?

 

Think of the jersey sales!

[jerb]

 

Joel Sherman

@Joelsherman1

 

ICYMI https://t.co/eXM4pnntTL?amp=1 Verlander shares a lot of similarities with Syndergaard (think recent injuries and workload) and many of the same suitors apparently too. #Yankees #BlueJays #RedSox

 

 

From the article:

 

Because the early starting-pitcher signings suggest a pro-player market. And early is word that, for example, Robbie Ray is seeking a high-end six-year deal, Marcus Stroman five years and Max Scherzer a record three-year pact at perhaps as much as $45 million annually. So the potential is there for Verlander to get, at minimum, a strong two-year deal (think north of $40 million). There is obvious risk for a 39-year-old who really hasn’t pitched since 2019 nor under new guidelines trying to eliminate illegal sticky substances.

 

His track record and competitive nature, though, is stellar. And the market is suggesting the kind of competition that drives prices up.

[Deadpool]

 

Joel Sherman

@Joelsherman1

 

ICYMI https://t.co/eXM4pnntTL?amp=1 Verlander shares a lot of similarities with Syndergaard (think recent injuries and workload) and many of the same suitors apparently too. #Yankees #BlueJays #RedSox

 

 

From the article:

 

I want Verlander, but I'm skeptical that 2/80 or 3/135 would be a wise move for any team.

[Deadpool]

Whelp

[RobinThicc]

Wilner still acting like Rogers employs him

[G-Snarls]

Think of the jersey sales!

 

He's still going to Cooperstown in a Tigers hat

[glory]

I would think the Jays would have to significantly beat the other offers (not just come close) for Verlander to choose Toronto over New York or Boston. Probably would have to be something like 2/50 guaranteed. I would still be open to something like that given the short term nature of the signing, and Verlander probably still has some juice left, though I have no doubt he was using spider tack in Houston so there will be some drop off even without factoring age/TJS. I guess it depends on what others are offering.

[mellowgold]

I highly doubt the Jays spend big on two more FA pitchers. I think they would love to grab ONE of Ray, Verlander, Scherzer, or Gausman and I think they'll be looking to acquire another via trade.

 

If they think they can lock a Manaea, Castillo or Lopez up long-term like they did with Berrios, it makes moving a couple more prospects much easier to swallow. And once the target pitcher gets here and gets familiar with the city, facilities, etc, I think the Jays like their chances of not having to overpay like they would have to on the open market.

 

Kirk is a surplus and is likely being dangled and they can probably deal with moving on from one of Groshans or Orelvis. That's a pretty solid package but if it means even more long-term stability, I think they do it.

 

This core is young and here for a while, so they have time to restock.

[TwistedLogic]

Maybe the Jays should just move Bo Bichette to 2B, sign Carlos Correa for SS and trade for Jose Ramirez at 3B.

 

Oh and then get Starling Marte for CF, move Springer to RF and move Teoscar to DH.

 

That would be swell.

[mellowgold]

I honestly wouldn't be shocked to see something like this come opening day:

 

Ray

Berrios

Castillo

Manoah

Ryu

Pearson

 

With our lineup, that is one hell of a team, even with only minimal improvements to the bullpen (but I have confidence they'll take care of business there as well).

[Cbert]

I honestly wouldn't be shocked to see something like this come opening day:

 

Ray

Berrios

Castillo

Manoah

Ryu

Pearson

 

With our lineup, that is one hell of a team, even with only minimal improvements to the bullpen (but I have confidence they'll take care of business there as well).

 

Would love to get Castillo but I would assume Pearson along with Kirk and Groshans go the other way in that trade. Not saying that’s a deal breaker for me, I just don’t think you can count on Pearson as depth in this scenario.

[John_Havok]

Whelp

 

It's just a terrible article:

 

Headline: Montoyo robbed of award!

Frist 2 sentences of article: The most difficult baseball post-season award to vote for is manager of the year. There’s just no good way to figure out who truly deserves it.

 

But he was robbed....no good way to figure out who deserves it... but, yup, robbed.

 

What an idiot.

[G-Snarls]

Maybe the Jays should just move Bo Bichette to 2B, sign Carlos Correa for SS and trade for Jose Ramirez at 3B.

 

Oh and then get Starling Marte for CF, move Springer to RF and move Teoscar to DH.

 

That would be swell.

 

That team would be insanely good

[Krylian]

Maybe the Jays should just move Bo Bichette to 2B, sign Carlos Correa for SS and trade for Jose Ramirez at 3B.

 

Oh and then get Starling Marte for CF, move Springer to RF and move Teoscar to DH.

 

That would be swell.

 

What would the payroll be with that roster?

[Brownie19]

That team would be insanely good

 

I assumed he was being facetious as some of these proposed signings are getting a little out of hand (like landing Scherzer and Verlander)

[Krylian]

I assumed he was being facetious as some of these proposed signings are getting a little out of hand (like landing Scherzer and Verlander)

 

I would hope so, which is why I'm curious what the dollars would look like. Sometimes people need to be shown the preposterous details for it to sink in. Can't have everyone.

 

 

...but there's always that one guy that will remind us that Rogers can afford it, and commence complaining about their Rogers bill.

[G-Snarls]

I assumed he was being facetious as some of these proposed signings are getting a little out of hand (like landing Scherzer and Verlander)

 

True

 

Plus it's TL posting so yes

[TwistedLogic]

I would hope so, which is why I'm curious what the dollars would look like. Sometimes people need to be shown the preposterous details for it to sink in. Can't have everyone.

 

 

...but there's always that one guy that will remind us that Rogers can afford it, and commence complaining about their Rogers bill.

 

While I was being purposely ridiculous, that roster would only come in at $162M.

 

 

And if it's true that the Jays can get up to $180M this year, you'd still have some money to fill in the rotation and pen.

[John_Havok]

I want Verlander, but I'm skeptical that 2/80 or 3/135 would be a wise move for any team.

 

There is no chance any team is giving Verlander 2/80. That would just be stupid.