The Blue Jays acquire Jose Berrios from the Minnesota Twins

[JaysAllMighty]

Single-handedly? Chuckles helped by putting him in a position to fail.

 

Chuckles was intimidated by Chatwood.

[Captain Adama]

This trade...doesn't make much sense. I understand that both Martin and SWR have real flaws, but I feel like this a very poor value trade, especially given the team's position standings (and that all other teams ahead of them have considerably improved)

 

This reeks of an AA-type deal. It's a poor use of prospect currency and odd timing.

 

Obviously if they can extend Berrios like a few guys said, this trade becomes much more understandable, but this trade deadline is pretty odd right now.

[EastCoaster]

Just don't get you Yardbirds listening to you you'd think the sky was falling daily. You tend to overate players so they gave up 2 prospects there's no guarantee on these guys ever making it so big deal there's someone who rated these guys they weren't no No 1 prospects. Plus they have plenty of prospect right now what they need is pitching and unfortunately to get good pitching the price is at a premium. This isn't a bad deal by any means.

[Laika]

The thing is, it's not really a question of if the Blue Jays think they're top 50 prospects or not. It's a question of which other GM's throughout baseball do see them that highly and who you could have finessed for a better package.

 

I refuse to believe that all 30 GM's were suddenly clued in on some apparent value loss on Martin and Richardson that none of the general prospect evaluators in baseball heard about. It's just hard to imagine Jose Berrios was the best they could have done for this package even if they were down on them internally.

 

It doesn't have to be a catastrophic drop in perception but look: The Mets were comfortable letting SWR go and Martin was passed over in a somewhat surprising fashion by like three MLB teams in the draft.

 

All it takes is for the general consensus on them to be down, from the GMs that are selling right now. Maybe that means Martin is more of a 50-100 level guy and SWR is a backend top 100 guy. Martin is hitting for ZERO power and SWR is walking a ton of guys without a fantastic FB; those are some pretty big concerns.

[Jays24]

Just don't get you Yardbirds listening to you you'd think the sky was falling daily. You tend to overate players so they gave up 2 prospects there's no guarantee on these guys ever making it so big deal there's someone who rated these guys they weren't no No 1 prospects. Plus they have plenty of prospect right now what they need is pitching and unfortunately to get good pitching the price is at a premium. This isn't a bad deal by any means.

 

Did the Dodgers pay the same or less to get Trea Turner and Scherzer? The Padres added a bunch of arms to their rotation without ever giving up 2 top prospects. With no extension, this trade is a joke.

[Krylian]

Trying to turn this into a positive in my prospect loving head.

 

I guess if we're able to work out a deal with Berrios (big if) then this could work out well.

If Berrios stays, he replaces, and is likely a meaningful upgrade over what SWR likely will be. The price for that upgrade is Martin. Huge price. But if we're saying our window is officially open, then these are the kinds of pieces the Jays need to somehow add.

 

Groshans and Orelvis are still in the coffers so there are significant IF pieces still moving their way up through the system.

 

This still stings though.

[Deadpool]

This trade...doesn't make much sense. I understand that both Martin and SWR have real flaws, but I feel like this a very poor value trade, especially given the team's position standings (and that all other teams ahead of them have considerably improved)

 

This reeks of an AA-type deal. It's a poor use of prospect currency and odd timing.

 

Obviously if they can extend Berrios like a few guys said, this trade becomes much more understandable, but this trade deadline is pretty odd right now.

 

I honestly don't think an extension would change my opinion of the trade. We gave assets to the Twins in exchange for 1.5 years of Berrios, what he does in the future has no bearing on the trade that has happened.

[saskjayfan]

It doesn't have to be a catastrophic drop in perception but look: The Mets were comfortable letting SWR go and Martin was passed over in a somewhat surprising fashion by like three MLB teams in the draft.

 

All it takes is for the general consensus on them to be down, from the GMs that are selling right now. Maybe that means Martin is more of a 50-100 level guy and SWR is a backend top 100 guy. Martin is hitting for ZERO power and SWR is walking a ton of guys without a fantastic FB; those are some pretty big concerns.

 

I agree with this, but I'm pretty sure you said a week or two ago we should have no worries about SWR walk rate..lol.

[saskjayfan]

I honestly don't think an extension would change my opinion of the trade. We gave assets to the Twins in exchange for 1.5 years of Berrios, what he does in the future has no bearing on the trade that has happened.

 

so there's no chance Martin or SWR will be busts?

[John_Havok]

Did the Dodgers pay the same or less to get Trea Turner and Scherzer? The Padres added a bunch of arms to their rotation without ever giving up 2 top prospects. With no extension, this trade is a joke.

 

Not quite the same, Scherzer likely wasn't waiving his no trade to come to Toronto, so... moot point.

[Ray]

The thing that should ease everyones concern is that there are very few pieces this front office has traded away/let go that's bit them in the ass down the line. Even after moving Martin/SWR, we still have a Top 10 system quite easily.

 

I'll put Ryu, Ray, Berrios, Manoah against any Top 4 in the AL. If we can get an extension done, even better.

[Deadpool]

so there's no chance Martin or SWR will be busts?

 

Of course there is, but having them means that we've got more insurance in case Groshans/Orelvis/Smith/Pearson/Manoah bust. Prospects are a numbers game, the more high upside ones you have, the more star calibre players you produce.

[KevinGregg]

I honestly don't think an extension would change my opinion of the trade. We gave assets to the Twins in exchange for 1.5 years of Berrios, what he does in the future has no bearing on the trade that has happened.

 

Part of what we traded for is 1.5 years of exclusive negotiating rights.

Everyone loves the city once they get here, but we tend to have a hard time selling free agents on the city who haven’t lived here before. We certainly gained a significantly increased chance of having Berrios in a Jays uniform in 2023 from this deal

[Captain Adama]

so there's no chance Martin or SWR will be busts?

 

Honestly, I'd say there's a pretty decent chance that they are disappointments (not quite busts) but it's still a poor use of prospect currency

[Jays24]

It doesn't have to be a catastrophic drop in perception but look: The Mets were comfortable letting SWR go and Martin was passed over in a somewhat surprising fashion by like three MLB teams in the draft.

 

All it takes is for the general consensus on them to be down, from the GMs that are selling right now. Maybe that means Martin is more of a 50-100 level guy and SWR is a backend top 100 guy. Martin is hitting for ZERO power and SWR is walking a ton of guys without a fantastic FB; those are some pretty big concerns.

 

That's a very Homer way of looking at things tbh. SWR was the key piece to get a good young arm in Stroman and Martin still only dropped a couple of draft spots to 5th. We clearly were so excited to get him and if what you think is true, we shouldn't have drafted him 5th in the first place.

[DigitalRock]

I honestly don't think an extension would change my opinion of the trade. We gave assets to the Twins in exchange for 1.5 years of Berrios, what he does in the future has no bearing on the trade that has happened.

 

totally disagree. If they extend berrios and SWR and Martin do not amt to much this trade will be viewed very favourably, especially if they already talked extension....

[Krylian]

I honestly don't think an extension would change my opinion of the trade. We gave assets to the Twins in exchange for 1.5 years of Berrios, what he does in the future has no bearing on the trade that has happened.

 

The only thing I'd say about that is that it's always been hard for the Jays (Raptors too) to sign the bigger fish on the FA market. Berrios is a bigger fish. This 1.5 years gives them time to sell the Jays, Toronto, and Canada to Berrios. If they really want to have him here long term, there's a better chance of re-signing him rather than signing him as a FA. Just my opinion.

[saskjayfan]

Did the Dodgers pay the same or less to get Trea Turner and Scherzer? The Padres added a bunch of arms to their rotation without ever giving up 2 top prospects. With no extension, this trade is a joke.

 

It's a very different environment trading a player who says I'm only willing to go to 2 teams. Scherzer had all the control. For all we know he said I'm only willing to go to the Dodgers.

[DigitalRock]

That's a very Homer way of looking at things tbh. SWR was the key piece to get a good young arm in Stroman and Martin still only dropped a couple of draft spots to 5th. We clearly were so excited to get him and if what you think is true, we shouldn't have drafted him 5th in the first place.

 

No way, a part of gathering assets is to use them to acquire other assets you need...The jays are deep in the middle infield with groshans, etc...It doesn;t work this way.

[Deadpool]

The only thing I'd say about that is that it's always been hard for the Jays (Raptors too) to sign the bigger fish on the FA market. Berrios is a bigger fish. This 1.5 years gives them time to sell the Jays, Toronto, and Canada to Berrios. If they really want to have him here long term, there's a better chance of re-signing him rather than signing him as a FA. Just my opinion.

 

And that's totally fair, and reasonable. The problem is that we gave up a LOT of prospect capital to get him here, FAR too much IMO.

[DigitalRock]

Jays are talking to the nats about Yan Gomes.

[Krylian]

The thing that should ease everyones concern is that there are very few pieces this front office has traded away/let go that's bit them in the ass down the line. Even after moving Martin/SWR, we still have a Top 10 system quite easily.

 

I'll put Ryu, Ray, Berrios, Manoah against any Top 4 in the AL. If we can get an extension done, even better.

 

It's a nice Top 4. There are 60 games left, and the pen is still a big question mark. They need to play .620 ball to get to 90 wins.

[Brownie19]

I would have thought this FO had earned more respect from the fanbase.

[Sammy225]

Did the Dodgers pay the same or less to get Trea Turner and Scherzer? The Padres added a bunch of arms to their rotation without ever giving up 2 top prospects. With no extension, this trade is a joke.

 

You can't compare Scherzer situation to this...... Scherzer likely have a list of 4 teams at most likely to the Gm and he had to deal with that. He was not there for anyone to have. Also Scherzer is likely gone after this year. So very very different.

 

I was high on Martin so that stings by there is a few warts on SWR that are going to be hard to over look, he has not had a good fastball and he is walking people at a terrible rate. I don't think many teams were Valuing him like most on here. You can be mad for Martin but i always have the mind set that we have to overpay to get good to great players here and this is no different. Is it an overpay yes but is it outrageous? Not as much as some are making it out to be.

[DigitalRock]

It's a nice Top 4. There are 60 games left, and the pen is still a big question mark. They need to play .620 ball to get to 90 wins.

 

That's doable honestly but I think this is a play for 2022 as much as this season.

[Krylian]

And that's totally fair, and reasonable. The problem is that we gave up a LOT of prospect capital to get him here, FAR too much IMO.

 

Ya...it's hard to stomach right now. I'm hoping that Berrios re-signs and the Jays have some post-season appearances during his stay here. That's what it will take for me to be zen with this deal.

[spats]

You have to put this into perspective.You're either buyers or sellers. If you're buyers, then you have to look at your needs short and long term.Glaring need is pitching and they addressed that. Paid a steep price but if they couldn't sign Ray next year, would they be comfortable going into next season with Ryu, Stripling,Manoah Matz in a division that's getting stronger. Now they would only have to sign one starter next year.

[Krylian]

That's doable honestly but I think this is a play for 2022 as much as this season.

 

Possibly...but they have to get Ray locked up for that to happen. Ray is gonna get PAID.

[Ray]

I would have thought this FO had earned more respect from the fanbase.

 

They've certainly earned the benefit of the doubt on my end.

[Deadpool]

I would have thought this FO had earned more respect from the fanbase.

 

A lot of us liked AA, until we didn't.