The Blue Jays acquire Jose Berrios from the Minnesota Twins

[Ray]

This article by Goldstein and Longenhagen seem to be quite down on Martin: https://blogs.fangraphs.com/twins-get-bounty-for-berrios-but-its-one-thats-not-without-risk/

[Deadpool]

Hopefully re-sign Semien.

 

Just seems like a poor use of money to do that when we have to ink 4 players to big money contracts and we have internal options to cover 2B. I like Semien, but he's not high on my priority list right now.

[DigitalRock]

It's not that complicated to find parallels. One elite prospect and one very good prospect sent out for a very good but not elite pitcher with limited remaining control. See some similarities now?

 

One is 27, been good for years, the other near 40, and was a knuckleballer who are finicky at best who out of nowhere had a great year in NL parks..it's not remotely the same. It's not that complicated. The only similarity is there were prospects involved like the vast majority of trades.

[InvincibleTiger]

What dollars are we looking at for Ray and Berrios extensions?

[Laika]

What dollars are we looking at for Ray and Berrios extensions?

 

$69,420,666

[DigitalRock]

What dollars are we looking at for Ray and Berrios extensions?

 

Would 18 million a year do it?

[saskjayfan]

So are the Jays done, or do we make another deal?

[DigitalRock]

So are the Jays done, or do we make another deal?

 

Rumoured to still be looking for a bat at least according to morosi.

[Krylian]

Hopefully re-sign Semien.

 

Hopefully re-sign Semien.

Hopefully re-sign Ray.

Hopefully re-sign Berrios.

Hopefully extend Vladdy.

Hopefully extend Bo.

 

Lots of big contracts on the horizon for the FO if they want to play in the big sandbox.

[Brownie19]

Sure, might as well give them Kirk, Groshans, Martinez and Pearson. Then I'd love to see people here rationalize the trade.

 

shocking to see you overreacting like this. So out of character for you.

[DigitalRock]

shocking to see you overreacting like this. So out of character for you.

 

Yeah not a fan of what we gave up, a lot depends on the extension, but some of the chicken little responses sure were fun reading while I drink coffee #4.

[DigitalRock]

Hopefully re-sign Semien.

Hopefully re-sign Ray.

Hopefully re-sign Berrios.

Hopefully extend Vladdy.

Hopefully extend Bo.

 

Lots of big contracts on the horizon for the FO if they want to play in the big sandbox.

 

Rogers better pony up. Doubt we resign semien though.

[Benito]

Yeah not a fan of what we gave up, a lot depends on the extension, but some of the chicken little responses sure were fun reading while I drink coffee #4.

 

Yeah it's pretty much consensus on here this was an overpay. No one is happy with the cost. It's the people saying Jays got raped, and calling for firings that are the ones being irrational, IMO.

[TheHurl]

It's not that complicated to find parallels. One elite prospect and one very good prospect sent out for a very good but not elite pitcher with limited remaining control. See some similarities now?

 

The difference for me is where the team is. This team is filling an important hole for next year. That trade was paired with another horrible trade which traded even more depth from a team that lacked it in the first place. It also put JPA firmly in a starting role on a team which just upped it's payroll by $40M. You don't need to keep selling to hopefully dig out of a hole this trade left you in. The 2012 offseason did.

 

In other words this deal leave the Jays with Groshens, Smith and Lopez as the next IF'ers. 2013 Jays were left with Bonifacio, Melky and JPA in starting roles.

[Jays24]

Yeah it's pretty much consensus on here this was an overpay. No one is happy with the cost. It's the people saying Jays got raped, and calling for firings that are the ones being irrational, IMO.

 

I just expected big things from Martin man. I was so stoked about the draft pick just for him to get traded a few months into his MiLB career.

 

We are not in a must win season as this is supposed to be just the beginning of our winning curve. We are in a different position than most other teams. Instead we made a trade for a guy who can leave in 1.5 years and this could border on being a disasterous trade if there's a CBA lockout next year.

[Jays24]

shocking to see you overreacting like this. So out of character for you.

 

I just loved Martin man. Seeing his name in the trade broke me lol.

[Brownie19]

I just loved Martin man. Seeing his name in the trade broke me lol.

 

C'mon man. Chicken Little is your idol. It's your MO on here. Nothing wrong with that. You're still a great contributor, but you freak out a lot.

[philly30]

Yeah not a fan of what we gave up, a lot depends on the extension, but some of the chicken little responses sure were fun reading while I drink coffee #4.

 

Have to give up something to get something good back

[Kevin9394]

LOLOLOLOL. Third string starter? Oh please he is top ten pitcher in the league right now... You can not like the deal and not exaggerate to make a point.

 

Dickey was the best, or at least top 3, pitcher in the league !

[JFD]

Yikes that's a serious overpayment.. hopefully it works out

[Scion]

This article by Goldstein and Longenhagen seem to be quite down on Martin: https://blogs.fangraphs.com/twins-get-bounty-for-berrios-but-its-one-thats-not-without-risk/

 

This coupled with our front office's reputation makes me feel alot better about this trade. It seems the public perception of Martin was different than that of the industry. It's always important to remind ourselves that as fans we are never working with a full picture of things.

[JFD]

Might as well sell the rest of the farm for Jose Ramirez now. Need a lefty bat..

[Benito]

I just expected big things from Martin man. I was so stoked about the draft pick just for him to get traded a few months into his MiLB career.

 

We are not in a must win season as this is supposed to be just the beginning of our winning curve. We are in a different position than most other teams. Instead we made a trade for a guy who can leave in 1.5 years and this could border on being a disasterous trade if there's a CBA lockout next year.

 

I'm a big Martin fan and have even gone on record as stating he was still no. 1 Jays prospect for me. I don't like that the trade cost him, but it is what is, and Berrios is now a Jays and should fit in well with this team. He's an excellent starter in his prime, and I will be rooting for him to help lift the team to contention rest of the way.

[Jimcanuck]

This coupled with our front office's reputation makes me feel alot better about this trade. It seems the public perception of Martin was different than that of the industry. It's always important to remind ourselves that as fans we are never working with a full picture of things.

 

Yeah, maybe Martin joins Royce Lewis as Minny SS flops.

[DigitalRock]

I just expected big things from Martin man. I was so stoked about the draft pick just for him to get traded a few months into his MiLB career.

 

We are not in a must win season as this is supposed to be just the beginning of our winning curve. We are in a different position than most other teams. Instead we made a trade for a guy who can leave in 1.5 years and this could border on being a disasterous trade if there's a CBA lockout next year.

 

It could also be the turning point for this club this and next year, that help us be a playoff team..lets wait and see before freaking out over what might happen in 1,5 years? I think Atkins has a better idea on were things stand with the lockout, i doubt it happens tbh.

[Jays24]

C'mon man. Chicken Little is your idol. It's your MO on here. Nothing wrong with that. You're still a great contributor, but you freak out a lot.

 

Won't even argue that. Freaking out on a message board allows me to be sane in person. Should have seen me after we drafted Barnes over Suggs yesterday lol.

[DigitalRock]

Dickey was the best, or at least top 3, pitcher in the league !

 

For 1 year, berrios has been great for years and 27..it doesn't take a surgeon to know dickey near 40 was not going to replicate his numbers...a knuckleballer in the Al east lol.

[5minutesforframing]

For 1 year, berrios has been great for years and 27..it doesn't take a surgeon to know dickey near 40 was not going to replicate his numbers...a knuckleballer in the Al east lol.

 

I am in no way equating this deal to the deal for Dickey, but to say that Berrios has been "great for years" and Dickey was only good for 1, is definitely disingenuous. That trade was a disaster and this trade appears to be an overpay, but Berrios hasn't been an elite pitcher. Hopefully he becomes that in Toronto.

[Deadpool]

For 1 year, berrios has been great for years and 27..it doesn't take a surgeon to know dickey near 40 was not going to replicate his numbers...a knuckleballer in the Al east lol.

 

AA apparently didn't know that.

[metafour]

Dickey was the best, or at least top 3, pitcher in the league !

 

Dude, R.A Dickey was old as dirt and coming off a season where he was doing unprecedented things with the most gimmicky pitch in baseball. There was basically zero precedent to suggest that he'd be able to remain dominance as a knuckleballer, by way of the pitch itself being completely unpredictable. Furthermore, he went from a huge season in the Mets' pitcher-friendly park to trying to emulate that success in the Rogers Centre - and similarly hitter-friendly AL East parks.

 

Don't be stupid. The Dickey trade was bad from day one because we were praying for a repeat of fluke success. Jose Berrios, at 27 with multiple years of well above-average performance and obviously above-average stuff, is nothing like R.A. Dickey. In fact he might realistically not even be at his peak yet.