Offseason Roster Thread (2020-2021)

[Carlos Danger]

That's an unreal rotation. Their number 5 is better than our number 2 for the upcoming season lol.

 

They should bump Stroman back to # 5, because if all those guys are healthy, he is the #5, and also because I know it would f*** with his ego.

[L54]

Stroman is clearly the fifth best starter for the Mets

 

He’s also the second best Marcus S the Jays have ever had

[G-Snarls]

They should bump Stroman back to # 5, because if all those guys are healthy, he is the #5, and also because I know it would f*** with his ego.

 

Starting Position Doesn't t Measure Heart!!! #SPDMH #Blessed #HardWork #loveeverybodyIloveyouall #Idontcarewhatpeoplesay #Iwishpeopledidntsayishouldbethe5thstarter #f***everybodyyouallsuck

[Carlos Danger]

starting position doesn't t measure heart!!! #spdmh #blessed #hardwork #loveeverybodyiloveyouall #idontcarewhatpeoplesay #iwishpeopledidntsayishouldbethe5thstarter #f***everybodyyouallsuck

 

lmao:d

[Jays24]

Starting Position Doesn't t Measure Heart!!! #SPDMH #Blessed #HardWork #loveeverybodyIloveyouall #Idontcarewhatpeoplesay #Iwishpeopledidntsayishouldbethe5thstarter #f***everybodyyouallsuck

 

Hahaha

[wilko]

Starting Position Doesn't t Measure Heart!!! #SPDMH #Blessed #HardWork #loveeverybodyIloveyouall #Idontcarewhatpeoplesay #Iwishpeopledidntsayishouldbethe5thstarter #f***everybodyyouallsuck

 

And the post is now deleted lol

[Carlos Danger]

This is not a good analysis. Anectodal reasoning is so tempting but it's just not very persuasive in baseball - there are hundreds of active pitchers and thousands of historic pitchers, you can find examples for every mold. I don't care that a couple of SPs succeed with s***** fastballs, or just one dominant offspeed pitch. Kuhl's odds of pulling it off are extremely low, just like every other pitcher in history with a mediocre fastball and a plus breaking ball - the vast majority of those guys are relievers. I mean you could argue that Kuhl is already performing beyond expectations by being an above replacement level starter.

 

Look, in 2020 he tried it. FB% plummeted to just 44%; he was throwing offspeed stuff over half the time. The result was the worst walk rate of his career, worst HR rate, and therefore his worst FIP.

 

The issue with Kulh is his pitch usage. He also had a one blowout against the Marlins that jacked up a lot of bad numbers. He was also coming back from basically two years off. He finished strong and is the exact type of SP the Jays appear to be targeting with the thought they can fix or see some solid underlying metrics.. He is a low cost with upside potential pitcher which the Matz trade shows they are willing to take fliers on. The Jays were mentioned with him at the deadline which probably means they were at least looking at him. Many other SPs you have to pay a high asset price for and apart from Bauer and one or two others, there is not much in FA.. Kulh is a cost vs reward target to buy low instead of waiting until he breaks out and becomes very expensive.

 

From Fangraphs:

 

The Pittsburgh Pirates don’t have much going for them this year. One bright spot who has shown potential is pitcher Chad Kuhl. Kuhl is an interesting case and I am somewhat surprised people haven’t run to add him.

 

Kuhl started the year piggybacking for Steven Brault but that ended quickly and he has moved into the starting rotation after only doing it twice. In four starts this year he possesses a 2.70 ERA and has only allowed more than one run once in those four starts. Now the 6.10 FIP, .128 BABIP, and near 100% LOB% screams massive regression. But he might not regress as much as one would think.

 

Kuhl actually has two above-average breaking balls in his slider and curveball. Both produce a ton of whiffs, and while he could locate the curveball a little better his slider is located very well. The main crutch for Mr. Kuhl is his sinker. With a .399 wOBA against, I wonder why this is his featured pitch. Hopefully, the Pirates and their new “philosophy” can fix this.

 

For all of Chad Kuhl’s positives and negatives, overall he’s a solid streaming option. He pitches very well at home, and can handle both right and left-handed hitters. In the right matchups, he makes a ton of sense and with those two plus breaking balls in his back pocket he should be able to eliminate potential blowups.

 

Another from Fangraphs:

 

Chad Kuhl eventually moved into the rotation for the Pirates last season. As a starter, he pitched 41.1 innings with a 4.57 ERA, 5.78 FIP, and 4.90 xFIP. What’s so interesting about Kuhl is his stuff is really good. In fact, if you use Ethan Moore’s Quality of Pitch (QOP) metric he is ranked up there with Mike Soroka and Kenta Maeda.

 

Kuhl can take a step forward if he caters more towards his breaking stuff, especially the slider. He mainly throws a sinker (42.1% usage) but it just flat out isn’t a good pitch. His command on it is terrible and it gets crushed. Actually crushed might be an understatement. Opposing hitters had a 186 wRC+, .309 ISO, and .448 wOBA against it. Those are some of the worst numbers I have ever seen for someone’s number one pitch.

 

When you move on to the slider that he throws 34.5% of the time the numbers look much better. Opposing hitters only had a 52 wRC+, .244 wOBA, and .058 ISO against it. He also was able to induce whiffs as it posted a 20.1 SwStr%, well above the league average of 17.1%. While he should probably throw it out of the zone more his slider doesn’t possess any flaws, so why not throw it 40% of the time?

 

Kuhl needs to dump the sinker or at least drop the usage to 30%. Relying on his slider and curveball could work wonders.

[The Cats Ass]

Starting Position Doesn't t Measure Heart!!! #SPDMH #Blessed #HardWork #loveeverybodyIloveyouall #Idontcarewhatpeoplesay #Iwishpeopledidntsayishouldbethe5thstarter #f***everybodyyouallsuck

 

Can't wait until we light him up in the World Series. In both game 3 and game 7.

[Laika]

...He finished strong and is the exact type of SP the Jays appear to be targeting with the thought they can fix or see some solid underlying metrics.. He is a low cost with upside potential pitcher which the Matz trade shows they are willing to take fliers on....

 

He's nothing like the Jays other targets. Matz has a traditional pitch mix and has shown strikeout ability and control, Robbie Ray has been a very good starter before and has extreme K ability.

 

Chad Kuhl is like the type of guys Toronto would acquire to stick in the pen. He's basically Tyler Chatwood.

[jaysguy44]

DeGrom

Bauer

Stroman

Thor

Carrasco

 

Jesus.

 

And yes, Jesus might be sixth in that rotation.

Good thing I put money on them a few months ago to win the NL in 2021, I apparently should have threw more down.

 

That would be a filthy rotation.

 

$750 isn't a bad payout though

[The Cats Ass]

He's nothing like the Jays other targets. Matz has a traditional pitch mix and has shown strikeout ability and control, Robbie Ray has been a very good starter before and has extreme K ability.

 

Chad Kuhl is like the type of guys Toronto would acquire to stick in the pen. He's basically Tyler Chatwood.

 

Chatwood is actually Kuhl's #1 comparable based on Velocity and Movement.

[Carlos Danger]

Can't wait until we light him up in the World Series. In both game 3 and game 7.

 

When he comes out of the pen since they went with a 4 man rotation not including HDMH... LOL

[The Cats Ass]

When he comes out of the pen since they went with a 4 man rotation not including HDMH... LOL

 

Carrasco and Thor are both injured by that point in time.

 

But him coming out of the pen would also be a nice scenario.

[Carlos Danger]

Carrasco and Thor are both injured by that point in time.

 

Ha! LOL probably true!

[WONDERBAT]

Our rotation is still pretty trash, we can't just assume Pearson is going to find it. I know Shapiro said most of the heavy lifting is done but they should probably be looking to move Grichuk, Lourdes or some catching depth for a more reliable starter. It's actually starting to look like Roark going to need to anchor the rotation down after Ryu lol.

 

What are we looking at here right now?

 

1. Ryu

2. Pearson

3. Ray

4. Roark

5. Chatwood?

 

Matz, Stripling, Zeuch, Merryweather, Borucki and Hatch I assume will be in the pen?

[Jays24]

Our rotation is still pretty trash, we can't just assume Pearson is going to find it. I know Shapiro said most of the heavy lifting is done but they should probably be looking to move Grichuk, Lourdes or some catching depth for a more reliable starter. It's actually starting to look like Roark going to need to anchor the rotation down after Ryu lol.

 

What are we looking at here right now?

 

1. Ryu

2. Pearson

3. Ray

4. Roark

5. Chatwood?

 

Matz, Stripling, Zeuch, Merryweather, Borucki and Hatch I assume will be in the pen?

 

Ys we have a bunch of 4/5 starters on the team. Pearson was far from impressive last year even when healthy so to rely on him isn't smart yet. We have 1 guy who is a solidified above average starter and even with Ryu, his injury history is something to be concerned about. I'm sure we'll add one of Odorizzi/Paxton/Walker.

 

Ryu

Free Agent or Trade

Pearson

Ray

Stripling/Roark/Matz

[Grant77]

Our rotation is still pretty trash, we can't just assume Pearson is going to find it. I know Shapiro said most of the heavy lifting is done but they should probably be looking to move Grichuk, Lourdes or some catching depth for a more reliable starter. It's actually starting to look like Roark going to need to anchor the rotation down after Ryu lol.

 

What are we looking at here right now?

 

1. Ryu

2. Pearson

3. Ray

4. Roark

5. Chatwood?

 

Matz, Stripling, Zeuch, Merryweather, Borucki and Hatch I assume will be in the pen?

 

Some of them will certainly be in the minors unless we have a 10 man bullpen.

[RobinThicc]

That rotation sucks dick.

 

I think they'll add someone in that mid tier, like Walker and then trade for a top of the rotation guy at the deadline if the team is in it.

[Krylian]

Ys we have a bunch of 4/5 starters on the team. Pearson was far from impressive last year even when healthy so to rely on him isn't smart yet. We have 1 guy who is a solidified above average starter and even with Ryu, his injury history is something to be concerned about. I'm sure we'll add one of Odorizzi/Paxton/Walker.

 

Ryu

Free Agent or Trade

Pearson

Ray

Stripling/Roark/Matz

 

Even if they add a mid-rotation guy, our starting rotation will still be the weakest part of the team. To be really comfortable I'd want at least 2 arms...but I can't see that happening. We're going to have to count on some surprise performances I think.

[Jays24]

Even if they add a mid-rotation guy, our starting rotation will still be the weakest part of the team. To be really comfortable I'd want at least 2 arms...but I can't see that happening. We're going to have to count on some surprise performances I think.

 

Ys I totally agree. I was just saying what I felt to be realistic at this stage.

 

We actually need a real Ace and a number 3 starter. Ryu should be your number 2/3 starter but is being used as an Ace because of our situation.

 

Shatkins have said they won't be able to plug all holes in one offseason. They planned to fill the remainder during the trade deadline and next offseason. 2022 is when I'll have real world series aspirations for this team because we all know the current rotation is not carrying you far.

[WONDERBAT]

Some of them will certainly be in the minors unless we have a 10 man bullpen.

 

We might have a 10 man bullpen with the kind of guys they are stockpiling.

 

Who has options left between Zeuch, Merryweather, Borucki, Hatch, Kay, Murphy, Thorton, Waguspack, Tice?

 

We already had to trade away Hector Perez. Probably another roster trade on the horizon.

[BTS]

We might have a 10 man bullpen with the kind of guys they are stockpiling.

 

Who has options left between Zeuch, Merryweather, Borucki, Hatch, Kay, Murphy, Thorton, Waguspack, Tice?

 

We already had to trade away Hector Perez. Probably another roster trade on the horizon.

 

Only Merryweather and Borucki from that group are out of options. The rest should be in AAA.

[Jays24]

Only Merryweather and Borucki from that group are out of options. The rest should be in AAA.

 

Good thing is we that we should have some great options if we encounter injuries. If we could add some top tier starters, our team and farm system would be almost near in a perfect situation.

[Slade]

Even if we add Walker that is a pretty poopy rotation but I guess the plan is 4-5IP and straight to the pen.

[Deadpool]

Only Merryweather and Borucki from that group are out of options. The rest should be in AAA.

 

Wasn't there some weird thing that Merryweather ended up with another option year? Or am I thinking of someone else?

 

I'd really like Merryweather to start, give him one more year to see if he can hold it together injury wise, I think I read that they're still considering him a starter.

[Laika]

Wasn't there some weird thing that Merryweather ended up with another option year? Or am I thinking of someone else?

 

I'd really like Merryweather to start, give him one more year to see if he can hold it together injury wise, I think I read that they're still considering him a starter.

 

Yeah it was recently mentioned that Merryweather has an extra option for some arcane reason. Not that he should be in AAA... he might be the team's best reliever/opener.

[Orgfiller]

Wasn't there some weird thing that Merryweather ended up with another option year? Or am I thinking of someone else?

 

I'd really like Merryweather to start, give him one more year to see if he can hold it together injury wise, I think I read that they're still considering him a starter.

 

The past 3 years haven't been enough indication that Merryweather quite literally can't hold it together? He couldn't even stay healthy as a reliever in the month or so that he was up lol. We should consider ourselves lucky if he can become a 2 IP reliever who gets to 60 innings in a season more than once.

[Jays24]

The past 3 years haven't been enough indication that Merryweather quite literally can't hold it together? He couldn't even stay healthy as a reliever in the month or so that he was up lol. We should consider ourselves lucky if he can become a 2 IP reliever who gets to 60 innings in a season more than once.

 

Agreed... Merryweather is like 28 and had stuff like that all this time. I think it's safe to say he will be a reliever in the best case scenario. Even then, I'm not holding my breath on him staying healthy. His stuff is too good for him to be in the minors.

[Deadpool]

Yeah it was recently mentioned that Merryweather has an extra option for some arcane reason. Not that he should be in AAA... he might be the team's best reliever/opener.

 

I think opener is probably his destiny, but I also think "opener who can go 5-6 innings sometimes" is where I'd be aiming with him.

[Spanky99]

Starting Position Doesn't t Measure Heart!!! #SPDMH #Blessed #HardWork #loveeverybodyIloveyouall #Idontcarewhatpeoplesay #Iwishpeopledidntsayishouldbethe5thstarter #f***everybodyyouallsuck