Offseason Roster Thread (2020-2021)

[Laika]

Which teams are really "IN" on the big free agents - it seems the Mets are going after McCann for catcher which leaves JT Realmuto perhaps without the biggest spending team after him.

 

Assuming the Jays can sign one of Springer or JTR which would you rather have - let's assume both get 5/$135m

 

It's tough to find a true two-way catcher - a good defensive catcher who can hit. Then again it's tough to find a true two-way CF.

 

Toronto has good depth at C so Springer, for sure.

 

There's also a "been there, done that" element with Realmuto, with Martin being the biggest signing in team history. That shouldn't matter but for my lizard brain it kind of does, for some dumb reason.

[RobinThicc]

Depending on how Realmuto's market plays out, I could see him being the more attractive option.

 

If the Mets are actually out on him, it makes things interesting.

[Orgfiller]

Toronto has good depth at C so Springer, for sure.

 

There's also a "been there, done that" element with Realmuto, with Martin being the biggest signing in team history. That shouldn't matter but for my lizard brain it kind of does, for some dumb reason.

 

lol that's like saying Teoscar Hernandez breaking out as an offensive juggernaut (not saying he has) is boring because we've been there, done that with Bautista and Edwin. Sign me up for Martin-esque value/contract value from Realmuto any year.

[Laika]

lol that's like saying Teoscar Hernandez breaking out as an offensive juggernaut (not saying he has) is boring because we've been there, done that with Bautista and Edwin. Sign me up for Martin-esque value/contract value from Realmuto any year.

 

No, the former is just a thing that happens and the latter is a large, rare investment.

 

Well-rounded catchers are kind of boring. Russell Martin was kind of a boring Blue Jay.

[Orgfiller]

No, the former is just a thing that happens and the latter is a large, rare investment.

 

Well-rounded catchers are kind of boring. Russell Martin was kind of a boring Blue Jay.

 

I think part of the reason that Realmuto is even more fun than a guy like Russell Martin is he's legitimately good at everything and not just elite in a couple of aspects - usually defense/framing being one - like most good catchers are. Since his debut Realmuto completely laps the catching field in value provided with his baserunning. Since 2015 he's provided 15.9 fangraphs BsR, the next closest is at 5.3, with the vast majority of catchers being negative (Martin included, young or old). He might be the best running starting caliber catcher EVER! The last catcher comp I can think of that matches him would be peak Jason Kendall.

[metafour]

A 5 year deal for a catcher in his 30's scares me.

 

This actually isn't as scary as you would assume it to be. Realmuto just turned 30 and there is no reason to fear that he'll fall apart unexpectedly as he is the most athletic catcher in the league, on top of also being above average in literally every category (including baserunning) which means that he's not dependent on just his bat or just his defense to produce value. We've already seen from examples like Yadier Molina, Martin, and even Buster Posey that elite catchers absolutely can and have held their production well into their mid 30's. Russell Martin was 2 years olders than Realmuto is right now when we signed him as a free agent, and even in his final seasons he was still a 1+ WAR player (he was actually more productive than Jansen was for us this past season).

[Ryu In My House]

This actually isn't as scary as you would assume it to be. Realmuto just turned 30 and there is no reason to fear that he'll fall apart unexpectedly as he is the most athletic catcher in the league, on top of also being above average in literally every category (including baserunning) which means that he's not dependent on just his bat or just his defense to produce value. We've already seen from examples like Yadier Molina, Martin, and even Buster Posey that elite catchers absolutely can and have held their production well into their mid 30's. Russell Martin was 2 years olders than Realmuto is right now when we signed him as a free agent, and even in his final seasons he was still a 1+ WAR player (he was actually more productive than Jansen was for us this past season).

 

If we sign him, I wonder if we could then trade a couple of our catching prospects for pitching.

[saskjayfan]

This actually isn't as scary as you would assume it to be. Realmuto just turned 30 and there is no reason to fear that he'll fall apart unexpectedly as he is the most athletic catcher in the league, on top of also being above average in literally every category (including baserunning) which means that he's not dependent on just his bat or just his defense to produce value. We've already seen from examples like Yadier Molina, Martin, and even Buster Posey that elite catchers absolutely can and have held their production well into their mid 30's. Russell Martin was 2 years olders than Realmuto is right now when we signed him as a free agent, and even in his final seasons he was still a 1+ WAR player (he was actually more productive than Jansen was for us this past season).

 

Realmuto's average sprint speed last year was 28.2 feet per second. The previous year it was 28.7. Teoscar was the Jays fastest player last year at 28.3 feet per second. Realmuto would be 2nd. Realmuto's percentile ranking was 83.4 in 2020 and 88.6 the previous year. The dude is one of the faster players in the league...crazy fast for a catcher.

[Ehjays]

Which teams are really "IN" on the big free agents - it seems the Mets are going after McCann for catcher which leaves JT Realmuto perhaps without the biggest spending team after him.

 

Assuming the Jays can sign one of Springer or JTR which would you rather have - let's assume both get 5/$135m

 

It's tough to find a true two-way catcher - a good defensive catcher who can hit. Then again it's tough to find a true two-way CF.

 

I dont think it matters who we want anyways, when a free agent says he's giving "serious thought" to playing for your team, that basically translates to he's waiting for more offers as hes not interested

in signing here.

[G-Snarls]

This actually isn't as scary as you would assume it to be. Realmuto just turned 30 and there is no reason to fear that he'll fall apart unexpectedly as he is the most athletic catcher in the league, on top of also being above average in literally every category (including baserunning) which means that he's not dependent on just his bat or just his defense to produce value. We've already seen from examples like Yadier Molina, Martin, and even Buster Posey that elite catchers absolutely can and have held their production well into their mid 30's. Russell Martin was 2 years olders than Realmuto is right now when we signed him as a free agent, and even in his final seasons he was still a 1+ WAR player (he was actually more productive than Jansen was for us this past season).

 

Right

 

And Martin was signed knowing full well that year 5 was probably going to suck

 

Wirh Realmuto you might actually get 5 good years. He'll slow down. He'll miss time. But he's good at everything.

[Spanky99]

If we sign him, I wonder if we could then trade a couple of our catching prospects for pitching.

 

Well that would be the plan, lol.

[Slade]

I dont think it matters who we want anyways, when a free agent says he's giving "serious thought" to playing for your team, that basically translates to he's waiting for more offers as hes not interested

in signing here.

 

He never said that Morosi's "sources" did.

[G-Snarls]

He never said that Morosi's "sources" did.

 

Morosi sources obviously <<<<<<<< Rosenthal sources

[Ryu In My House]

Right

 

And Martin was signed knowing full well that year 5 was probably going to suck

 

Wirh Realmuto you might actually get 5 good years. He'll slow down. He'll miss time. But he's good at everything.

 

A 36-year catcher in year 5 of the contract should still be performing okay. And by that point, ideally, you have a young buck ready to play full time and then the vet can DH/C/backup. Or be traded.

[Ray]

Rumours were swirling that the Mets are more heavily involved in trying to get James McCann, in which case Realmuto may just fall into our laps since the Mets were one of his biggest suitors. The Phillies really don’t seem keen on spending money this offseason. The Jays could likely land him with a competitive offer.

 

I would try to package Jansen for German Marquez. Rockies seen desperate on shedding payroll, moving Arenado is going to be incredibly difficult given his opt out clause, and the Rockies place a high value on catching.

[Spanky99]

Rumours were swirling that the Mets are more heavily involved in trying to get James McCann, in which case Realmuto may just fall into our laps since the Mets were one of his biggest suitors. The Phillies really don’t seem keen on spending money this offseason. The Jays could likely land him with a competitive offer.

 

I would try to package Jansen for German Marquez. Rockies seen desperate on shedding payroll, moving Arenado is going to be incredibly difficult given his opt out clause, and the Rockies place a high value on catching.

 

You mean the rumours we're all talking about for the last 2 days, lol. I'd love to land Marquez, sign me up.

[jerb]

https://www.cleveland.com/tribe/2020/12/what-about-reds-francisco-lindor-whats-next-for-nolan-jones-terrys-talkin-tribe.html

 

I’ve been told the Indians would love to build a trade with Toronto with one of the players in return being Lourdes Gurriel.

 

I also was told Lindor would consider signing a long-term deal to stay in Toronto.

[Jays24]

https://www.cleveland.com/tribe/2020/12/what-about-reds-francisco-lindor-whats-next-for-nolan-jones-terrys-talkin-tribe.html

 

This just makes too much sense with all the reports for it not to happen at this stage. Sign Springer to make Gurriel more expendable and trade for Lindor. We would have a dream lineup if this went down.

[RobinThicc]

Love Gurriel, but he's not stopping me from getting one of the best shortstops in the league.

 

Ideally you keep him, but you gotta give to get. Especially if you can get Lindor extended.

[burlingtonbandit]

I mean it really depends what a Lindor contract extension looks like. If its going to cost 10/300 then I wouldn't make that deal. If you can get him at 10/250 on an extension then I would trade Gurriel+ for him. His offense the last 2 years does scare me a little bit. His xOBA was under .340 the last 2 seasons.

[connorp]

I mean it really depends what a Lindor contract extension looks like. If its going to cost 10/300 then I wouldn't make that deal. If you can get him at 10/250 on an extension then I would trade Gurriel+ for him. His offense the last 2 years does scare me a little bit. His xOBA was under .340 the last 2 seasons.

 

It scares you but you’d do a 10/250 contact?

Honestly I’d rather keep Gurriel and sign a guy like Didi to go along with Springer. That’s good enough offense w/o worrying about Lindor’s deal in 5 years

[burlingtonbandit]

It scares you but you’d do a 10/250 contact?

Honestly I’d rather keep Gurriel and sign a guy like Didi to go along with Springer. That’s good enough offense w/o worrying about Lindor’s deal in 5 years

 

Meant more it'd be a hard no at 300M and even though I'd do 250M it would still scare me.

[Spanky99]

People finding reasons to not sign Lindor... *facepalm*

 

In saying that, it'll cost a lot more than Gurriel to get him on an extension agreement.

[burlingtonbandit]

People finding reasons to not sign Lindor... *facepalm*

 

In saying that, it'll cost a lot more than Gurriel to get him on an extension agreement.

 

When so many teams are hesitant to spend $ because of the pandemic there could be other more attractive opportunities than spending a ton of $ on Lindor who may not age well. Its not like the Jays are one player away from being a World Series contender either.

[Jays24]

When so many teams are hesitant to spend $ because of the pandemic there could be other more attractive opportunities than spending a ton of $ on Lindor who may not age well. Its not like the Jays are one player away from being a World Series contender either.

 

If the Jays get Springer, Lindor, a #2/3 calibre starting pitcher and 2 good bullpen additions... what do you think our expectations would be?

[Spanky99]

When so many teams are hesitant to spend $ because of the pandemic there could be other more attractive opportunities than spending a ton of $ on Lindor who may not age well. Its not like the Jays are one player away from being a World Series contender either.

 

Yes, I'm aware of that, but there's smoke, man. Why would Lindor not age well? How you doing double B, good having you back?

[Spanky99]

If the Jays get Springer, Lindor, a #2/3 calibre starting pitcher and 2 good bullpen additions... what do you think our expectations would be?

 

WS Contender?

[connorp]

Yes, I'm aware of that, but there's smoke, man. Why would Lindor not age well? How you doing double B, good having you back?

 

Because a lot of his value is dependent on D as someone mentioned and he’s a SS?.. and his .820 OPS may not be as sexy at 3b in 5 years for $25-30m

[Spanky99]

Because a lot of his value is dependent on D as someone mentioned and he’s a SS?.. and his .820 OPS may not be as sexy at 3b in 5 years for $25-30m

 

lol... you're so dumn. They still walk away like gravy on player value through those 5-7 years alone most likely.

[connorp]

lol... you're so dumn.

 

I’m talking out my yang a bit but physically I’d imagine there’s a steady curve downwards for SS and CF after 30.... especially if there’s a knee injury or something. Anyways, there’s not many guys I would be ok with Jays signing for 10 years as they aren’t like NYY where they’re like “this is a sunk cost, ho hum not going to worry about it and it’s business as usual”