Who is better: Trent Thornton or Ryan Borucki

[King]

Assuming Borucki was/is healthy, who do you think is the better starting pitcher?

[Captain Adama]

Thornton probably.

[Boxcar]

Do Thornton vs. Sanchez next

[TheHurl]

I'd shut down your baiting threads...but it's better than people talking about how bad the Jays future is and how it's never going to turn around. I'll let it go until it gets out of hand. And I vote Thornton

[Abomination]

Thornton has a higher ceiling, Borucki has a higher floor (imo). Realistically both will likely be legit back end starting pitchers at the major league level.

 

If Borucki retains his velocity gain from the preseason, he becomes significantly more interesting as it'll make his plus changeup play up even more.

Edited May 26, 2019 by Abomination

[Barkerfan23]

Thorton but both are better than Sanchez

[Angrioter]

Both suck

[Krylian]

Both suck

 

So does your mom

[Carlos Danger]

Aceucki for going 6 each game and giving you a QS. Thorton has better chance of going the Sanchez route and creating a debate if he will be better as a late inning guy or SP.

[Jimcanuck]

Either is a good answer. Borucki when he is on can suppress the long ball, Thornton better at missing bats but susceptible to getting hit hard.

[Ex Player]

I think right now they are about even (even though they are different types of pitchers)

[BlueRocky]

I think it’s easy to have recency bias, they are both ideally backend guys that flashes mid-rotation stuff on a good day.

 

I’m not sure Thornton will reach higher status without an above average third pitch long term. I’m not completely sold on his cutter (kinda-slider), it’s being hit hard giving up xWOBA .385 and xSLG .494. As his third pitch, he’s throwing it 14.5% of the time. I want to see this get developed a little bit more.

 

In comparison, his elite spin rate curveball gets thrown 31.8% of the time, and has xWOBA .211 and xSLG .252. It also generates a 35.8% whiff rate. The quality between the two pitches is night and day. His changeup is also decent but he barely throws it.

 

His stuff could play up in high leverage bullpen role throwing two plus pitches with high spin rates. There’s potential there to stay in the rotation and Thornton is still young, but that could always be his fallback.

 

I personally think Borucki has a higher floor and more likely to be a staple in the rotation. And if his uptick in velo from spring training is real, and his health issues are behind him, that’s potentially a very good piece in the rotation. Lefties also get more leeway and could get away with lower velo if their control and movement is solid.

[Todd Van Anus]

Long term I think Thornton projects as a reliever.

[BTS]

I get that the poll is 'assuming healthy', but I don't understand people saying Borucki has the higher floor. This is going to be his 3rd season all/mostly wiped out due to injury since being drafted. You can't separate him from the massive question marks about his arm durability.

[Boxcar]

I get that the poll is 'assuming healthy', but I don't understand people saying Borucki has the higher floor. This is going to be his 3rd season all/mostly wiped out due to injury since being drafted. You can't separate him from the massive question marks about his arm durability.

 

I think saying that Borucki has a higher floor is just a way for people who have no conviction in their beliefs to fence ride like champs.

[Laika]

I get that the poll is 'assuming healthy', but I don't understand people saying Borucki has the higher floor. This is going to be his 3rd season all/mostly wiped out due to injury since being drafted. You can't separate him from the massive question marks about his arm durability.

 

You are the hero that this thread needed

[Jimcanuck]

I think saying that Borucki has a higher floor is just a way for people who have no conviction in their beliefs to fence ride like champs.

 

To be fair, the question is like asking who is better, Verlander or Cole.

 

Or who is better, Maile or McGuire

[Boxcar]

To be fair, the question is like asking who is better, Verlander or Cole.

 

Or who is better, Maile or McGuire

 

Here are the floors for both Borucki and Thornton: they can't cut it at the big league level.

[Brownie19]

I get that the poll is 'assuming healthy', but I don't understand people saying Borucki has the higher floor. This is going to be his 3rd season all/mostly wiped out due to injury since being drafted. You can't separate him from the massive question marks about his arm durability.

 

If you're just looking at ability and pitch repertoire - Borucki probably has a lower floor. If you factor in health, the bottom drops out. Unfortunately, health is a major factor for any pitcher and thus Borucki is a complete wild card at this point.

[BlueRocky]

Why is everyone so down on Borucki coming back this year? I thought he started throwing and will begin rehab starts in June?

 

Also the poll was for long term. Are we not supposed to assume Borucki is healthy?

 

He had 1.6 fWAR in 97.2 IP in his rookie year and just turned 25.

6-4 lefty, with three pitches and a plus changeup.

 

In 17 starts he had a 109 ERA+, 3.80 FIP pitching in the AL.

He led all BJ starters in ERA+, the second was JA Happ at 100.

Sanchez was 86, Stroman was 76, Gaviglio was 79 last year.

 

In direct comparison, Thornton in 55 IP has a 99 ERA+, 4.72 FIP, 0.5 fWAR. He hasn’t been as good and I still conceded he has the higher ceiling based on stuff alone.

 

But Borucki seems like he has a pretty solid floor to me, I’m not sure why everyone is taking a dump on him. Kid is 25 and will get better too, was finally healthy last year.

Edited May 28, 2019 by BlueRocky

[Terminator]

Both suck

 

This is true

[Carlos Danger]

Here are the floors for both Borucki and Thornton: they can't cut it at the big league level.

 

Ummm.. Borucki in his opportunities he has had a the big league level was the best pitcher on our staff last year... Why not give the guy credit.

 

He also faced the Houston, Yankees, Red Sox, etc fighting for playoff spots... I think Thorton has had one start against the Red Sox but other than that.. Not vaunted offensive teams so far..

[Jimcanuck]

Here are the floors for both Borucki and Thornton: they can't cut it at the big league level.

 

False. Useful MLB bullpen pieces if a starting gig doesn't work out.

[Krylian]

False. Useful MLB bullpen pieces if a starting gig doesn't work out.

 

They can still fail as relievers.

[saskjayfan]

Why is everyone so down on Borucki coming back this year? I thought he started throwing and will begin rehab starts in June?

 

Also the poll was for long term. Are we not supposed to assume Borucki is healthy?

 

He had 1.6 fWAR in 97.2 IP in his rookie year and just turned 25.

6-4 lefty, with three pitches and a plus changeup.

 

In 17 starts he had a 109 ERA+, 3.80 FIP pitching in the AL.

He led all BJ starters in ERA+, the second was JA Happ at 100.

Sanchez was 86, Stroman was 76, Gaviglio was 79 last year.

 

In direct comparison, Thornton in 55 IP has a 99 ERA+, 4.72 FIP, 0.5 fWAR. He hasn’t been as good and I still conceded he has the higher ceiling based on stuff alone.

 

But Borucki seems like he has a pretty solid floor to me, I’m not sure why everyone is taking a dump on him. Kid is 25 and will get better too, was finally healthy last year.

 

The intriguing thing about Borucki was the velovity bump in spring training. He was hitting 95 and 96 on the radar gun in spring. He showed quite well last year as a rookie. You add 3 mile per hour to his fastball and you can't help but be excited. Hopefully he can pitch at some point this year. That velocity may not be there when he does pitch. Regardless, I have a hard time watching Thorton's wind up so I can't possible be unbiased in any discussion involving Thorton.

 

Borucki is scheduled to throw a bullpen tomorrow as long as there aren't any ill effects from his long toss the other day. If he's on his first bullpen tomorrow and doesn't have any setbacks, he should be ready for the end of June.

[TheHurl]

A better poll would have been which is the worse nickname that a single poster tries to push through as legit. Aceucki or Gurrielbabip?

[Krylian]

A better poll would have been which is the worse nickname that a single poster tries to push through as legit. Aceucki or Gurrielbabip?

 

They both make me want to vomit... The nicknames, not yet players.

[Carlos Danger]

A better poll would have been which is the worse nickname that a single poster tries to push through as legit. Aceucki or Gurrielbabip?

 

A over B, C to the E beats IP! Homey!

 

This is like the Hurl saying who everyone thinks is worse, Justin Bieber or Celine Deon? Then you discover they are both 85% of his total music playlists on his iPhone3.

[glory]

I think Thornton is a multi inning reliever long term, so I'd rate Borucki's ceiling as a SP higher, but his injury history is serious enough to cause some pause.

[Boxcar]

False. Useful MLB bullpen pieces if a starting gig doesn't work out.

 

Lol absolutely wrong. Do you know what "floor" means? It's not the same as "likely outcome".