Mark Shapiro on the radio today

[Maahfaace]

If you listen to him in this interview and aren't please he is the GM of your team you likely need your baseball IQ checked. +11 WAR on that interview alone.

 

Technically, he's not the GM

[Brownie19]

Interesting but it's still pretty concerning. You form some belief about a player's market, but they had no clue... actually it looks like they had no clue about the DH market overall, since it seems like Morales would be signing for less by now.

 

you and Jeff Blair would get along I think.

[Grant77]

Nice to see Shapiro confirm that they made a mistake with Edwin after I got roasted here for saying so. He's been around the block a few times and made his fair share of brilliant moves and mistakes. I like his work on the whole so far.

[Dr. Dinger]

Nice to see Shapiro confirm that they made a mistake with Edwin after I got roasted here for saying so.

 

He didn't say that.

[Grant77]

He didn't say that.

 

Don't be so obtuse. He's not going to say it flat out, but stating that they misread his market is akin to making a mistake. If he hadn't misread it, we would have Edwin at a bargain price. It doesn't get much more cut and dry in this business.

[Ray]

Have a constant pipeline of good young prospects ready to come up when needed, and only use Free Agency and Trades as a route to fill the gaps in between and not as a means to build a core group of players.

 

I like the way this man thinks.

[Dick_Pole]

Shapiro is a lot like Ricciardi except with more tact and (hopefully) an ability to draft and develop a strong farm system.

[Dick_Pole]

To any of the naysayers, I would be shocked if any major piece of this club gets sold off for prospects before the start of the season.

 

To any of the people saying to blow it up now, f*** off. The Jays have a perfectly legitimate shot at a playoff spot in 2017 and full effort should be used to filling holes on the MLB roster efficiently until it's determined by June/July that this team has no real shot. The prospect haul for Donaldson/Happ/Estrada/Grilli won't decline that much after the first three months of baseball and may actually be better depending on how robust the seller's market would be and how well those players have played.

[Atothe]

Estrada should be on the trade block with that bad back

[Dick_Pole]

Estrada should be on the trade block with that bad back

 

...because absolutely nobody in the league will recognize the injury risk and pay top dollar for him now.

[Grant77]

Estrada should be on the trade block with that bad back

 

We probably would have pursued Tyson Ross if Estrada were available, considering Ross came at a bargain basement price.

[Terminator]

So glad this team isn't wasting 20 million on a mediocre reliever. Will be interested to see the rest of this play out. We have a lot of holes to fill.

 

Also, I'm not upset about letting EE walk for 20+ AAV. That's still a lot of money for an old 1B/DH. But I think they deserve more blame for jumping on Morales. 3 years for his old ass is too many. Could have waited on him and gotten him for cheaper. Before everyone rush's to defend Shapiro please know that it's ok to both like what he's doing overal and have certain gripes about certain things he's done.

[Atothe]

...because absolutely nobody in the league will recognize the injury risk and pay top dollar for him now.

 

Never said top dollar, salary relief and a controllable pitcher would be good.

[BigCecil]

So glad this team isn't wasting 20 million on a mediocre reliever. Will be interested to see the rest of this play out. We have a lot of holes to fill.

 

Also, I'm not upset about letting EE walk for 20+ AAV. That's still a lot of money for an old 1B/DH. But I think they deserve more blame for jumping on Morales. 3 years for his old ass is too many. Could have waited on him and gotten him for cheaper. Before everyone rush's to defend Shapiro please know that it's ok to both like what he's doing overal and have certain gripes about certain things he's done.

 

 

That's fair. We don't have to be disciples to appreciate the approach to the job he has. I think he would admit in a round about way he went a year long on Morales. But he can also put up a good argument for his rationale for doing so at the time. He intimated that he got the power bat, no D market wrong with the caveat that just about everyone else did too, including Edwin's agent and Edwin himself.

 

Also, agree with you on the reliever market. Cost to value/risk is an issue right now and I like them staying away from it.

[Dick_Pole]

Never said top dollar, salary relief and a controllable pitcher would be good.

 

And you're assuming that's not top dollar? Unless the controllable pitcher is Jo-Jo Reyes and I'd rather not have him back.

[Dick_Pole]

That's fair. We don't have to be disciples to appreciate the approach to the job he has. I think he would admit in a round about way he went a year long on Morales. But he can also put up a good argument for his rationale for doing so at the time. He intimated that he got the power bat, no D market wrong with the caveat that just about everyone else did too, including Edwin's agent and Edwin himself.

 

Also, agree with you on the reliever market. Cost to value/risk is an issue right now and I like them staying away from it.

 

I'm still not sure why people are complaining so much about this Morales signing. If the one-dimensional slugger market has caved in, that can only help the Jays in the future even if there was a short-term overpay with Morales. If Shapiro builds the offense a similar way he did in Cleveland, he can then compliment it with a bunch of cheap power hitters who tend to do disproportionately well here. Even a guy like Smoak who has been a complete dud his whole career to this point has 32 home runs and 93 RBI in a season's worth of plate appearances over two years here even if the rest of his numbers are a complete throwaway.

[Dick_Pole]

Don't be so obtuse. He's not going to say it flat out, but stating that they misread his market is akin to making a mistake. If he hadn't misread it, we would have Edwin at a bargain price. It doesn't get much more cut and dry in this business.

 

He could have just as easily misread it a year ago and Bautista might be heading into his first of a four year $100M+ contract....

[jaysblue]

We probably would have pursued Tyson Ross if Estrada were available, considering Ross came at a bargain basement price.

 

Ross likely would have cost the Jays $8-10 million + incentives if Texas landed him for only $6M.

[jaysblue]

Estrada should be on the trade block with that bad back

 

Estrada is a FA after 2017. Jays are unlikely to get anything significant back for him long term due to his age and one year remaining, so just best to hold onto him and hope he stays healthy enough to make 30 starts. Estrada is more valuable to the Jays right now than anything they would get back for him via trade.

[jaysblue]

Trading guys like Estrada/Grilli/Happ at the deadline (if we're out of it) could definitely bring back some solid prospects.

 

Maybe Happ if he's having another All-Star caliber year, though don't expect anything special for Estrada or Grilli lol.

[jaysblue]

Doesn't make much sense to trade guys like Stro/Sanchez/Osuna when they all have 4+ years of control.

 

Trading JD could definitely make sense though. Depends what happens this year and how strong the rest of the division looks.

 

If the Jays want to bring back some solid prospects to rebuild their farm system, it starts with guys like Stroman, Sanchez, Donaldson, Travis etc. being shopped. Stroman is arbitration eligible and we've seen so many other teams trade solid pieces who still had 2-3 years of club control, so that doesn't make him or those other guys necessarily untouchable.

[Laika]

Ross likely would have cost the Jays $8-10 million + incentives if Texas landed him for only $6M.

 

More importantly, Texas' rotation is more wide open with s*** bags like Cashner, Perez, Chi Chi presenting easy competition for Ross.

 

Toronto has a flush five man rotation and if it's healthy, it would be hard to bump any of them for a semi-rehabbing Tyson Ross that needs to be handled with kids' gloves.

 

It's a pillow year for him so he just wants to get as many starts as possible and prove he's healthy.

[Grant77]

Ross likely would have cost the Jays $8-10 million + incentives if Texas landed him for only $6M.

 

I think I'd still do that. We have a ton of 2017 payroll room if Shapiro was telling the truth back in October.

[Grant77]

Estrada is a FA after 2017. Jays are unlikely to get anything significant back for him long term due to his age and one year remaining, so just best to hold onto him and hope he stays healthy enough to make 30 starts. Estrada is more valuable to the Jays right now than anything they would get back for him via trade.

 

I think he'd certainty net a top 100 prospect at the deadline in a typical Estrada year. Look what Rich Hill got.

[jaysblue]

More importantly, Texas' rotation is more wide open with s*** bags like Cashner, Perez, Chi Chi presenting easy competition for Ross.

 

Toronto has a flush five man rotation and if it's healthy, it would be hard to bump any of them for a semi-rehabbing Tyson Ross that needs to be handled with kids' gloves.

 

It's a pillow year for him so he just wants to get as many starts as possible and prove he's healthy.

 

That would have played a huge factor as well. No spots for him in the Jays rotation if everyone is healthy, whereas in Texas after Hamels & Darvish it's pretty much open.

 

Plus, location probably would have been a tough sell. He's from Berkeley California so I'm sure he preferred to stay out west.

[jaysblue]

I think he'd certainty net a top 100 prospect at the deadline in a typical Estrada year. Look what Rich Hill got.

 

Rich Hill was also packaged with Josh Reddick.

[intentional wok]

Estrada is a FA after 2017. Jays are unlikely to get anything significant back for him long term due to his age and one year remaining, so just best to hold onto him and hope he stays healthy enough to make 30 starts. Estrada is more valuable to the Jays right now than anything they would get back for him via trade.

 

You have to think the FO might be considering an extension too. If part of their offseason strategy is to lock up a role player or two before the market opens then extending Estrada the way they did for Smoak seems like a good move (depending on health, of course). They're likely to at least lose one of either Liriano and Estrada after this season, and maybe Happ a year later. So I'd be cool with them spending large on a FA SP if they can shrewdly extend contracts for good performers they already have and not go into the offseason with more than one gap in the rotation.

[Atothe]

You have to think the FO might be considering an extension too. If part of their offseason strategy is to lock up a role player or two before the market opens then extending Estrada the way they did for Smoak seems like a good move (depending on health, of course). They're likely to at least lose one of either Liriano and Estrada after this season, and maybe Happ a year later. So I'd be cool with them spending large on a FA SP if they can shrewdly extend contracts for good performers they already have and not go into the offseason with more than one gap in the rotation.

 

His back won't hold up long term

[Orgfiller]

His back won't hold up long term

 

Thanks doc.

[Boxcar]

Nice to see Shapiro confirm that they made a mistake with Edwin after I got roasted here for saying so. He's been around the block a few times and made his fair share of brilliant moves and mistakes. I like his work on the whole so far.

 

Yes, don't miss an opportunity to make a thread all about you, narcissistic buttplug.