Mark Shapiro on the radio today

[Grant77]

Rich Hill was also packaged with Josh Reddick.

 

Hill was the gem of that trade and they got 3 solid prospects for him. We could get something very good for Estrada at the deadline if we wanted to.

[intentional wok]

Hill was the gem of that trade and they got 3 solid prospects for him. We could get something very good for Estrada at the deadline if we wanted to.

 

So you're arguing the Dodgers offered up Grant Holmes, Frankie Montas, and Jharel Cotton for Rich Hill and that Josh Reddick was a thrown in non-factor?

[GodDonaldson]

So does it mean he is starting rebuilding this team from this year? It doesnt make sense rebuilding a team which advanced to the ALCS for two straight years.

[Jayday]

Have a constant pipeline of good young prospects ready to come up when needed, and only use Free Agency and Trades as a route to fill the gaps in between and not as a means to build a core group of players.

 

I like the way this man thinks.

Having a constant pipeline of good young prospects ready to come up and play is about as realistic as winning the powerball in 3 straight draws . You even know what "prospect " means? If the jays go that route, you'll have to look for them at or near the bottom of the standings for years to come.

[Jayday]

So does it mean he is starting rebuilding this team from this year? It doesnt make sense rebuilding a team which advanced to the ALCS for two straight years.

 

Amen .

[Grant77]

So you're arguing the Dodgers offered up Grant Holmes, Frankie Montas, and Jharel Cotton for Rich Hill and that Josh Reddick was a thrown in non-factor?

 

How on earth did you come up with that? Hill was the most valuable component in the trade, that's all.

[xposbrad]

I think he'd certainty net a top 100 prospect at the deadline in a typical Estrada year. Look what Rich Hill got.

 

Closer to 100 though, that's about it if we're lucky and he pitches well.

[Captain Adama]

So does it mean he is starting rebuilding this team from this year? It doesnt make sense rebuilding a team which advanced to the ALCS for two straight years.

 

As mythical it may sound, it is possible to rebuild a franchise while staying relatively competitive. Better than to try and go all in with older players and financially handcuff yourself.

 

Is it so damn hard to understand?

[jays_fever]

As mythical it may sound, it is possible to rebuild a franchise while staying relatively competitive. Better than to try and go all in with older players and financially handcuff yourself.

 

Is it so damn hard to understand?

 

That should pretty much be the goal for the next few years. Try to creep into the wildcard with 88 wins while stock piling good cost controlled players.

[Grant77]

Closer to 100 though, that's about it if we're lucky and he pitches well.

 

Why would we be lucky if he pitches well? It should be expected at this point. His health is more of a wildcard.

[Spanky99]

Ross is a waste of money.

 

Yeah, TOS scares the s*** out of me.

[xposbrad]

Yeah, TOS scares the s*** out of me.

 

He'll have to pass a physical.

[FrozenRopes]

So does it mean he is starting rebuilding this team from this year? It doesnt make sense rebuilding a team which advanced to the ALCS for two straight years.

I don't think rebuild is the right word. More like retool and cross your fingers. You trade the aging valuable veterans once you can see you're out of the hunt and then in the off season secure a few pieces and more finger crossing. Trust your drafting and hope for a surprises. Rinse and repeat.

[Ray]

Having a constant pipeline of good young prospects ready to come up and play is about as realistic as winning the powerball in 3 straight draws . You even know what "prospect " means? If the jays go that route, you'll have to look for them at or near the bottom of the standings for years to come.

 

You're assuming that I'm thinking that every single prospect will work out which is not the case obviously. I recognize there are going to be more busts than those who work out

 

I just want our team to not be as dependant on free agency and trades to be competitive. Our current core is almost entirely built on either trades, or free agent signings. Guys like Tulowitzki, Martin, Donaldson, Estrada, Happ etc. That stuff is fine. I'm not condemning it since you basically need to do it. But it's good to fill holes. Not to build a whole team.

[Key22]

if the Jays fall way out of it they will have the excuse to blow it up. After all they also offered EE more than anyone else in baseball so they can't be blamed for being cheap. Estrada in final year so he is easy to trade if pitching well. You could get a nice haul at the deadline - some playoff team will like a 1-2 starter and a guy who has proven to be a shut down player in the playoffs. Who knows you might even be able to dump some salaries like Tulo and Martin. Liriano in final year too - if he bounces back you can land something for him.

 

The White Sox seem to have it right - start to try and rebuild.

 

And Morales is okay - he was projected to get a two year $26 million contract. Big deal - we gave him 1 more at $5 million basically. It's a meh signing - a DH switch hitter with some interesting stats like hard contact etc and now finally in a 'hitter's park." Supposed to be a good clubhouse guy as well - so all around he's not a terrible player for the money.

[TwistedLogic]

So does it mean he is starting rebuilding this team from this year?

 

Whoever is responsible for creating this narrative deserves a lifetime of mild inconveniences.

[Dick_Pole]

The Jays have options to go either way (go for it or retool) and have the right people in the FO to do it. This team is in a pretty good spot.

 

- the farm isn't great. Bottom half of the league, but it isn't miserably bad like some other teams.

 

- only two 30+ guys are signed long term and both play scarce positions. The biggest risk is hoping Martin's defense holds for the life of his contract.

 

- one of the most efficient and cheap starting pitching staffs in the league with no long term commitments.

 

- all scarce positions are covered with everyday players - C, 3B, SS, 2B, CF. Unlike every year basically up until the end of 2014, this team actually has reasonable depth in the MIF for the foreseeable future.

 

- in terms of trade value (just imo, not getting this off an official list or anything): Donaldson, Travis and Sanchez crack the top 50. Stroman and Osuna are borderline top 50 and definitely crack the top 100. Happ and Pillar are borderline top 100. Estrada and Liriano could also bring in something useful in a robust seller's market. There are a lot of trade chips on this team at the FO's disposal.

 

- the weaknesses on this team are generally the easiest to fill, if not on the remaining FA market, a surprise breakout candidate. Corner OF, 1B, bullpen.

 

- still lots of salary flexibility and despite all the s*** Rogers takes, this team will continue to have salary in the top half of the league in a market that was tops in attendance last year and one of the most stable owners you could ask for. Rogers isn't going bankrupt any time soon and needs the Jays for Sportsnet. If the salary is low and it appears Rogers is being "cheap", I'm sure it's more about the FO not needing any more salary to complete their vision of this roster and using it as a rainy day fund to keep options wide open, like with the Liriano trade last year. Not blowing their wads trading for the first FA contracts they see like a certain someone did.

 

Overall this team is in a pretty good spot. It's not the Red Sox, but it's a hell of a lot closer to being the Red Sox than being the Angels. Whatever direction the FO chooses I think it'll be the right one and it'll be after two months of the regular season to get a feel of where this team is headed. No need to get so worked up a month before ST reporting.

[fatcowxlive]

Why are people still dwelling on the EE situation? I personally liked their approach of offering and moving on when being rejected, if we waited (like others have said AFTER the fact) and someone decided to drop $$$ on Edwin, judging by how early Morales and Pierce signed we would be in a pretty bad spot. I don't like the idea of pausing operations because we want to wait a month for a player to make a decision, especially since we gave him a good offer

 

Plus we got a draft pick out of it too.

[wk680]

Why are people still dwelling on the EE situation? I personally liked their approach of offering and moving on when being rejected, if we waited (like others have said AFTER the fact) and someone decided to drop $$$ on Edwin, judging by how early Morales and Pierce signed we would be in a pretty bad spot. I don't like the idea of pausing operations because we want to wait a month for a player to make a decision, especially since we gave him a good offer

 

Plus we got a draft pick out of it too.

 

Yes a lot of people now with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight want to bash the Jays FO, but at the time there were a lot of teams in the market for a DH (Astros, Rangers, Yankees, Red Sox, etc). I am sure they may have all been interested in a Morales type. Moving quickly and, as speculated, guaranteeing the 3rd year was a solid strategic move to beat their competition to the punch. And not coincidentally, they signed a guy who himself had been burned by waiting around for something better to emerge in prior free agency.

[Brownie19]

Yes a lot of people now with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight want to bash the Jays FO, but at the time there were a lot of teams in the market for a DH (Astros, Rangers, Yankees, Red Sox, etc). I am sure they may have all been interested in a Morales type. Moving quickly and, as speculated, guaranteeing the 3rd year was a solid strategic move to beat their competition to the punch. And not coincidentally, they signed a guy who himself had been burned by waiting around for something better to emerge in prior free agency.

 

It also sets a precedent that the Jays FO isn't going to f*** around and play games. That's an approach I like.

[Grant77]

Yes a lot of people now with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight want to bash the Jays FO, but at the time there were a lot of teams in the market for a DH (Astros, Rangers, Yankees, Red Sox, etc). I am sure they may have all been interested in a Morales type. Moving quickly and, as speculated, guaranteeing the 3rd year was a solid strategic move to beat their competition to the punch. And not coincidentally, they signed a guy who himself had been burned by waiting around for something better to emerge in prior free agency.

 

Overpaying for a player to protect yourself from being left holding the bag can be a good move, but not in a game where there are more chairs than people. It was rather obvious that all teams could fill their DH spots and there would still be good hitters left.

[Spanky99]

Overpaying for a player to protect yourself from being left holding the bag can be a good move, but not in a game where there are more chairs than people. It was rather obvious that all teams could fill their DH spots and there would still be good hitters left.

 

Stop it Grant, both sides of the coin misread the market, it happens. It wasn't only Toronto.