The Jose Bautista Thread

[burlingtonbandit]

If none of the other teams are willing to sign Jose until June than the draft is for all practical purposes already lost and shouldn't factor in the decision making process.

 

Also good chance you could trade him for more than what the draft picks is worth if he has a decent first half.

[puphood]

The question is if JB waits till June/July till the draft pick is off the table,and he will be picked up by someone in the run for Oct. Does he get a multi year contract?

[Brownie19]

Also good chance you could trade him for more than what the draft picks is worth if he has a decent first half.

 

10-5

 

10-5

 

10-5

[glory]

Also good chance you could trade him for more than what the draft picks is worth if he has a decent first half.

 

He would have a NTC (10/5 rights) if he signed with the Jays. Not that easy.

[burlingtonbandit]

10-5

 

10-5

 

10-5

 

If the Blue Jays are out of it and selling everyone off then he probably wouldn't mind going to a contender either. Other scenario is the Blue Jays are good and he helps the team try to get to the playoffs.

[Krylian]

10-5

 

10-5

 

10-5

 

I know it doesn't...but logically, 10-5 rights really shouldn't apply as he's technically a free agent now and has no affiliation with the Blue Jays. Why should the clock continue? I understand if he signed an extension before his contract expired, hence continuous service time with the team...but realistically, if he's not under contract with the team, why does the clock continue?

[Bobthe4th]

If the Blue Jays are out of it and selling everyone off then he probably wouldn't mind going to a contender either. Other scenario is the Blue Jays are good and he helps the team try to get to the playoffs.

 

With the second wildcard we'd have to be epically bad (unlikely without injuries to one or more of the pitchers + a position player like Donaldson/Martin) to be selling everyone. A .500 team still has a good chance of a wildcard.

 

I do think that if we are around .500 we'd shop Estrada, and if Gurriel / Urena is considered ready, maybe we'd shop Tulo too. I seriously doubt we'll be entering full rebuild mode though.

[KingKat]

I know it doesn't...but logically, 10-5 rights really shouldn't apply as he's technically a free agent now and has no affiliation with the Blue Jays. Why should the clock continue? I understand if he signed an extension before his contract expired, hence continuous service time with the team...but realistically, if he's not under contract with the team, why does the clock continue?

 

This is the phrasing: The contract of a Player with ten or more years of Major League service, the last five of which have been with one Club, shall not be assignable to another Major League Club without the Player’s written consent...

 

So it's whoever you played for over the last five years. Yes Bautista's contract is up at the moment but unless he plays for a different team in between his Blue Jays contracts, it's all moot. The phrasing is the way it is presumably because that's what the player's union wanted and ultimately obtained. MLB would have a fight on your hand if you tried to change something that's so established now.

[FrozenRopes]

It feels more and more like he is going to sit until the summer. He seems to proud to accept the QO and T.O doesn't seem like they want to move off that. They can get someone else to play decent RF defense. The line has been drawn?

[glory]

At age 36? I doubt he'd sit out. Does he expect teams to give him more money at age 37 next year after sitting out half the season? He might as well take the best multi year deal he can get and just accept it. Or take the best one year deal he can get and go back on the market next year with a full season under his belt.

[G-Snarls]

Good read:

 

[Frenchsoup]

What happens if Joey Bats goes to the KBO?

[wk680]

I think a 1-year deal still makes sense if Bautista helps this team win/compete/contend for 2017.

 

Having an extra pick would be really nice, but there are still enough pieces here to make a run in 2017.

 

I am not in favour of a recklessly trying to improve this team for 2017 for the sake of appearances, but I don't think the team should outright dismiss a 1-year deal just because of the pick. If we need that pick so badly, we should probably just blow the whole thing up.

 

That said, entertaining a 1-year deal for Bautista is contingent on the idea that he is healthy and able to bounce back. It continues to seem that the FO does not believe this to be the case, or there's some other negative factor about him that outweighs whatever value he brings to the field.

 

 

Yes, it's not as if they don't already have their own 1st round pick + the comp. pick for EE. Giving up the 2nd comp. pick by signing JB, who is in real danger of being frozen out of the market altogether anyway, is a reasonable trade-off for adding a 3 WAR player to a team that is still in a window to compete now. Also, if it is only a short term deal, there is an advantage in not having much money committed, in the event he does continue to decline.

 

I think you are right that they are more concerned about his physical state OR mental state / attitude. Remember the comments by Gibbons in an interview where he said the big turning point for the team was bringing in Martin and Donaldson in 2015 - tough guys with a real will to compete and win. That seemed like an indirect shot at JB, EE, etc. So it may be not only the FO, but also Gibbons who are not too thrilled with JB and may see him as a clubhouse/dugout problem that subtracts from the overall effort, despite his ability to produce at the plate. Also there is his bad relations with the umpires and opponents that greatly affects the team's reputation as a whole. Bottom line: the intangibles that the stats guys can not quantify are likely playing a big role here.

[KingKat]

What happens if Joey Bats goes to the KBO?

 

Hell freezes over.

[BTS]

I don't really believe that Bautista is running any risk of sitting out until June. Some team with either a protected 1st, or a 1st that's already been forfeited, is going to bite at at least 1/15.

[Terminator]

What happens if Joey Bats goes to the KBO?

 

Zeke Carrera gets 500 AB's for the Jays

[KingKat]

Good read:

 

 

Yeah good read. A good survey of the current landscape. One thing I hadn't considered before is owners becoming less meddlesome. We've definitely heard stories in the past about splashy owners playing a factor in contracts (Arte Moreno, Tom Hicks, Mike Ilitch, etc.). I wish the article had speculated a bit about why that's changed. Simply learning from past mistakes? Turnover in the owner's group changing the overall dynamic? Front offices learning doing a better job of communicating with owners in such a way to protect them from their worst instincts? I suppose all that could play a role.

[glory]

I don't really believe that Bautista is running any risk of sitting out until June. Some team with either a protected 1st, or a 1st that's already been forfeited, is going to bite at at least 1/15.

 

My money is on Oakland. They offered a two year deal to Edwin. They could get Bautista cheaper with the same term probably.

[Brownie19]

My money is on Oakland. They offered a two year deal to Edwin. They could get Bautista cheaper with the same term probably.

 

Is there a least inviting place to play in MLB than Oakland Co.?

[Spanky99]

Good read:

 

 

Decent read, thing is I've now read similar articles from Heyman/Rosenthal/ Fangraphs and another MLB writer(can't remember?)... these boys are late to the party, lol.

[Spanky99]

Hell freezes over.

 

Hahahaha... awesome!

[burlingtonbandit]

With the second wildcard we'd have to be epically bad (unlikely without injuries to one or more of the pitchers + a position player like Donaldson/Martin) to be selling everyone. A .500 team still has a good chance of a wildcard.

 

I do think that if we are around .500 we'd shop Estrada, and if Gurriel / Urena is considered ready, maybe we'd shop Tulo too. I seriously doubt we'll be entering full rebuild mode though.

 

I doubt Tulo gets shopped, he's got a full NTC and I think he'd be one of the last guys to be traded if they're out of it. I think they sell if they're more than 3 GB of the wildcard. Lots of pieces would be moved.

 

Estrada, Happ, Liriano, Grilli, Upton, Pearce, Donaldson would likely all be moved.

[Bobthe4th]

I doubt Tulo gets shopped, he's got a full NTC and I think he'd be one of the last guys to be traded if they're out of it. I think they sell if they're more than 3 GB of the wildcard. Lots of pieces would be moved.

 

Estrada, Happ, Liriano, Grilli, Upton, Pearce, Donaldson would likely all be moved.

 

Sorry, I maybe misunderstanding you, but are to trying to suggest Donaldson gets traded if at the deadline we are more than 3 games out of a wildcard place?

 

3 games is nothing, that can be caught up in less than a week.

[burlingtonbandit]

Sorry, I maybe misunderstanding you, but are to trying to suggest Donaldson gets traded if at the deadline we are more than 3 games out of a wildcard place?

 

3 games is nothing, that can be caught up in less than a week.

 

I think the FO would certainly listen. If there are say 3 team between the Jays and the 2nd place wildcard then a 4 Game lead is quite a bit. Obviously a bunch of factors go into it like injuries up until that point and what teams are offering in return but trading JD makes sense if you aren't going to sign him long term.

[Bobthe4th]

I think the FO would certainly listen. If there are say 3 team between the Jays and the 2nd place wildcard then a 4 Game lead is quite a bit. Obviously a bunch of factors go into it like injuries up until that point and what teams are offering in return but trading JD makes sense if you aren't going to sign him long term.

 

Thanks, that's much more reasonable.

 

Hopefully it won't be an issue anyway, and we'll be right in the mix for the playoffs.

[Jimcanuck]

Sorry, I maybe misunderstanding you, but are to trying to suggest Donaldson gets traded if at the deadline we are more than 3 games out of a wildcard place?

 

3 games is nothing, that can be caught up in less than a week.

 

The Jays are a team in decline with aging vets. If they have 3/4 teams ahead of them at the deadline, hard to see how retaining JD makes sense, by the time Jays have reloaded JD will be what, 35/36?

 

I find it hard to see the Jays as WS contenders in 2017, the competition is just so much stronger.

[Terminator]

The Jays are a team in decline with aging vets. If they have 3/4 teams ahead of them at the deadline, hard to see how retaining JD makes sense, by the time Jays have reloaded JD will be what, 35/36?

 

I find it hard to see the Jays as WS contenders in 2017, the competition is just so much stronger.

 

It didn't have to be this way. With an aggressive offseason the Jays would have out positioned everyone in the division (other than the Red Sox) for at least next season and possibly the next two. I have no idea what the FO is doing right now. Seems like they are playing both sides of the coin. They don't want to go all-in but at the same time they are locking up 34 year olds to multi-year deals. It's been a frustrating offseason to say the least. Here's to hoping they can pull a rabbit out of their hat before it's over.

[Laika]

I wouldn't take Bautista back if he paid us!

[Ray]

I found it funny that the only team that Matt Holliday had on his NTC when he signed with the Yanks was Oakland. Guess he likes having free soda.

 

I don't really believe that Bautista is running any risk of sitting out until June. Some team with either a protected 1st, or a 1st that's already been forfeited, is going to bite at at least 1/15.

 

I think I might riot if we don't get Bautista for 1/15. Bautista at his best is worth more than a 30-something overall draft pick. Theres no reason we shouldn't get Bautista on a 1 year + 1 team option deal at this point

[Nafro]

I found it funny that the only team that Matt Holliday had on his NTC when he signed with the Yanks was Oakland. Guess he likes having free soda.

 

 

 

I think I might riot if we don't get Bautista for 1/15. Bautista at his best is worth more than a 30-something overall draft pick. Theres no reason we shouldn't get Bautista on a 1 year + 1 team option deal at this point

 

So let me get this straight. You would rather pay Bautista 15 million to put up numbers likely somewhere between last year and 2015. (His strikeouts will go up).? If he plays the outfield, he's going to cost you 5-15 Runs? You would rather do that, then pay someone less money, to provide the same value. Oh and you wouldn't want Thor or Aaron Sanchez? Both were sandwich round picks.

 

That being said, I would probably sign Bautista for 1-15, if he plays at least half the game's at DH, with Morales playing first.