Offseason Roster Thread 2016-17

[Dr. Dinger]

The idea is to have the fans buy into the system to where they show up regardless of perceived success. Dropping salary upon one unsuccessful season just destroys a fanbase (see KC). Showing fans that you can be successful as a mid pack team isn't going to pack the house, but it won't increase expectations. It's tough as I doubt the "smart fanbase" is big enough anywhere to fill a stadium. Nor do they (we) bring an energy to the park.

 

I disagree. The Blue Jays have now proven that a successful team will fill the stadium. The impetus is now on the front office to maintain success in order to keep those gate revenues high. Falling back out of contention will surely kill off that revenue stream. You're not sinking 100% of that money back into the payroll, but it's much easier to justify increasing the payroll now that we know what the potential revenue of a soldout stadium is in this decade.

[TheHurl]

I disagree. The Blue Jays have now proven that a successful team will fill the stadium. The impetus is now on the front office to maintain success in order to keep those gate revenues high. Falling back out of contention will surely kill off that revenue stream. You're not sinking 100% of that money back into the payroll, but it's much easier to justify increasing the payroll now that we know what the potential revenue of a soldout stadium is in this decade.

 

But spending $200M, falling out of contention and losing that soldout stadium is really bad for the team. The cuts become deeper and hurt the process. I'd much rather see a F.O. that is thinking "where do we have to be when it comes time for Josh Donaldson to be a free agent" than one that says "lets spend now because we lose JD in 2 years". Jays fans are never going to fully support a losing team, but also Rogers is never going to support an expensive losing team.

[Dr. Dinger]

Well $200M was never realistic, but $170M is.

[wk680]

I disagree. The Blue Jays have now proven that a successful team will fill the stadium. The impetus is now on the front office to maintain success in order to keep those gate revenues high. Falling back out of contention will surely kill off that revenue stream. You're not sinking 100% of that money back into the payroll, but it's much easier to justify increasing the payroll now that we know what the potential revenue of a soldout stadium is in this decade.

 

The other thing I keep thinking about is the length of commitment to an increased payroll. I think committing to 160M-ish for several years makes sense, like you said the increased chance that gives at being competitive should pay off in attendance AND Sportsnet viewership (yeah I know that is a separate account). BUT if they could load up on a couple more 1 year commitments for 2017 and push the payroll just for this season, it would be nice. Maybe one of EE or JB ends up in that '1 year commitment' category.

[Brownie19]

No. But he might go out and spend a little bit more on some better seeds to try and yield a bigger better crop next year.

 

Spending extra money on overpriced seed, which may or may not product higher yield (as factors such as weather significantly affect yield more than the seed) may hurt you in the long run. Also - buying the fancy combine (which will take you 4-5 years to pay off) may also backfire if you're seeder breaks down.

 

I think it all depends what you spend it on (doesn't it always?). I'm all for the Jays spending more - as long as they are smart with it. Don't just spend to say you spent.

[Governator]

If the opening day payroll was hard capped at $180MM but with no in season flexibility would you be happy then? You guys complain too much, in 2015 we added some big league salary during the season with Price, Tulo, Hawkins, Lowe, Revere, Barney and everyone cheered. In 2013 the payroll shot up with the Marlins trade, AA always said Rogers was very flexible and money was always available for deals that made sense. I don't think a $165MM opening day cap really prevents the FO from further improving the team it just means they need ownership consent... If Shapiro can't make a quick convincing call detailing why an extra $5 or $10MM could go a long way when an opportunity presents itself, then that's probably just as much on him because it didn't stop Beeston & AA from getting it done.

[burlingtonbandit]

$165 is actually more than I thought it would be after the season ended. I'm fine with it if they put other $ into the development system (where ROI on performance is much higher).

 

I think people are making way too much out of the attendance and the correlation with payroll. TV revenues matter way more and the performance of the team on a game by game basis impacts that much more than attendance would. They have a ton of seats already sold for the season through season tickets, flex packs etc... so you already have that money.

 

But if the team is in last place in late August you are going to lose a few hundred thousand viewers per game which is worth a hell of a lot more to the bottom line considering Rogers owns SN.

[RealAccountant]

165 is very good news. 165 should be more than enough to put a playoff contender together.

 

Makes it very hard to criticize Rogers

[RealAccountant]

$165 is actually more than I thought it would be after the season ended. I'm fine with it if they put other $ into the development system (where ROI on performance is much higher).

 

I think people are making way too much out of the attendance and the correlation with payroll. TV revenues matter way more and the performance of the team on a game by game basis impacts that much more than attendance would. They have a ton of seats already sold for the season through season tickets, flex packs etc... so you already have that money.

 

But if the team is in last place in late August you are going to lose a few hundred thousand viewers per game which is worth a hell of a lot more to the bottom line considering Rogers owns SN.

 

In MLB its very hard to have a good rotation and be in last place. It just doesn't work like that.

 

In the regular season Starting Pitching is pretty much the first variable that impacts the win loss record. Even if one or two starters go down, it is still a decent rotation.

 

What is a negative is not taking advantage of a very good rotation,

 

Boston obviously has a better rotation, as does Cleveland, but after that I find it hard to believe anyone in the AL is better. This team will be right there in the Wild Card Race.

[burlingtonbandit]

In MLB its very hard to have a good rotation and be in last place. It just doesn't work like that.

 

In the regular season Starting Pitching is pretty much the first variable that impacts the win loss record. Even if one or two starters go down, it is still a decent rotation.

 

What is a negative is not taking advantage of a very good rotation,

 

Boston obviously has a better rotation, as does Cleveland, but after that I find it hard to believe anyone in the AL is better. This team will be right there in the Wild Card Race.

 

I'm saying theoretically...Also its not that hard for SP to get hurt like we saw a few years ago where 3 guys were lost in a week.

 

Even if they are a few games back in the WC and sell off some players the ratings will suffer quite a bit.

[RealAccountant]

Yeah I find it interesting that there isn't more pressure on Shapiro from Rogers to retain the big stars for Ratings.

 

Maybe we overestimate how much ratings mean to Sportsnet. Maybe after Hockey they just dont give a f***.

[souvlaki]

Sorry if this was already suggested but why not sign both Bautista and EE at the suspected low contract years/money we've been hearing? Try to make a decent line up until the trade deadline and move one of either EE or Morales. I'm sure the player we can get in return is worth more than the draft pick we would be missing out on.

[wk680]

If the opening day payroll was hard capped at $180MM but with no in season flexibility would you be happy then? You guys complain too much, in 2015 we added some big league salary during the season with Price, Tulo, Hawkins, Lowe, Revere, Barney and everyone cheered. In 2013 the payroll shot up with the Marlins trade, AA always said Rogers was very flexible and money was always available for deals that made sense. I don't think a $165MM opening day cap really prevents the FO from further improving the team it just means they need ownership consent... If Shapiro can't make a quick convincing call detailing why an extra $5 or $10MM could go a long way when an opportunity presents itself, then that's probably just as much on him because it didn't stop Beeston & AA from getting it done.

 

 

Yes the $165M (or whatever) probably is not so much a cap, as a target currently agreed upon with corporate management but open to further tweaking. Good point about having budget flexibility for in season additions. I was about to say those are not so likely, since the Jays are not going to give up top prospects for 'hired guns'. But then considering the in season acquisitions in 2016, they did pretty well without giving up much in those trades.

[burlingtonbandit]

Sorry if this was already suggested but why not sign both Bautista and EE at the suspected low contract years/money we've been hearing? Try to make a decent line up until the trade deadline and move one of either EE or Morales. I'm sure the player we can get in return is worth more than the draft pick we would be missing out on.

 

JB and EE would have full no trade clauses so you may not get back the best package out there. Plus trading Morales now looks pretty terrible on the org. That doesn't go unnoticed by other players and agents.

[Gary]

JB and EE would have full no trade clauses so you may not get back the best package out there. Plus trading Morales now looks pretty terrible on the org. That doesn't go unnoticed by other players and agents.

 

Trade Smoak.

[george09]

[Gary]

 

Is this Toronto offer after the initial 4/80 offer?

[itaos]

Is this Toronto offer after the initial 4/80 offer?

 

 

It would have been nice of Bowden to clarify that, but he spreads bad info so very often it wouldn't matter.

[brianf]

Per mlbtraderumors

 

6:13pm: In addition to the Indians and Blue Jays, the Rangers, Astros, and Athletics have all made offers to Encarnacion, according to ESPN.com’s Jim Bowden (who cites team sources for each organization). As noted below, there’s apparently at least one other organization that has dangled a proposal as well.

 

Each of those five clubs have put multiple years on the table, per Bowden, who notes that some of the offers include opt-outs following the 2017 campaign. Two suitors, in particular, are said to be engaged in negotiations “at a rapid pace” with Encarnacion’s reps. It’s not known which of the five organizations are pushing hardest at present.

[Governator]

Good luck EE, hope you cash in large.

[RealAccountant]

Realistically what kind of offer could Cleveland and Oakland have made. It's only the Texas teams and I can't imagine Houston paying much aftet all their DH options EE is a DH

 

He will wind up in Texas

[Boxcar]

Why would Houston want EE?

[jaysblue]

Why would Houston want EE?

 

Possibly to block the Rangers from signing him? They could probably rotate him and Beltran at the DH spot.

[Boxcar]

Possibly to block the Rangers from signing him? They could probably rotate him and Beltran at the DH spot.

 

I hate how dumb the Astros are. I thought they wouldn't be this dumb.

[burlingtonbandit]

Feel like Bautista would be way better for Astros. Can play LF at least and is the same flyball-pull hitter that would benefit from that park.

[Pendleton]

I have a weird feeling EE winds up in Oakland, even if it's not a traditional A's type move.

[Governator]

I have a weird feeling EE winds up in Oakland, even if it's not a traditional A's type move.

 

I would be good with that, I don't want to be burned by him in a rivalry game.

[jaysblue]

I would be good with that, I don't want to be burned by him in a rivalry game.

 

Until the A's trade him to a contender in July.

[Maahfaace]

So Rick Westhead is reporting the Jays payroll is set for 165 million for 2017, is this legit? or is he talking out his ass again?

http://www.tsn.ca/jays-budget-set-at-165m-to-start-2017-1.636348

 

Edit: Nevermind, guess this was discussed a few pages back, sorry.

[KingKat]

So Rick Westhead is reporting the Jays payroll is set for 165 million for 2017, is this legit? or is he talking out his ass again?

http://www.tsn.ca/jays-budget-set-at-165m-to-start-2017-1.636348

 

He's probably right or not too far off. Impossible to say whether he actually knows something or is just making the same kind of educated guess some of our posters would.